Tomas Tatar

[VM1138 1,921]

It also seems like Nyquist just sort of popped on the radar this season. Tatar has been hyped up for years, and like people said, he hasn't really disappointed, despite not blowing open the AHL. Not every NHL superstar dominates the AHL. I'm not saying he will be a superstar, but he hasn't been a bust and you don't just give up on someone with the potential of being a first liner on the Red Wings. When he's 21.

Edited February 15, 2012 by VM1138

[Majsheppard 203]

Id like to know where you heard Tatar is supposed to be like Martin St. Louis? I've heard many comparable players, none of which were St. Louis. Ive heard Milan Hejduk and Peter Bondra amoung others but that doesnt mean this kid is going to be the next any of these players, it just means they play a similar game. I would love to have a young Hejduk, Bondra, or St. Louis coming up but the chances of that being the case is slim, so to part with a few of our mediocre prospects for a couple proven players would work for me.

You dont even read my posts. You keep saying that I "wanted to know about Tatar" I never once said that I wanted to know about him, I want to know why there are so many fans that think he is the next big thing coming up the pipe, because I dont think he is at all. We have much better prospects in our system.

I dont know you, I dont know how much you know about hockey, and I dont know how much you follow the Wings, just like you know nothing about me. I can tell you though, I dont miss a Wings game and I watch most Griffins games and Ive also watched quite a few Sea Dogs games. Ive watched around 40 Griffins games, 10 or so Sea Dogs games, as well as most of the World Juniors, so dont try to tell me I dont have a clue about him, I bet Ive seen him and most of our top prospects play a hell of a lot more than you have. Yes hes a good player but I dont love what I see in him. I see a lot more skill and potential in some of our other prospects. And THAT is what THIS topic was about.

Okay, the tone of this might come off as arrogant or angry. I just ask you read it all and know, I am not mad or screaming or anything. I just want to make a few points, and I really don't mean you any disrespect. Please do not read it that way.

First point: Go google for yourself all the comparisons, because I am not sifting through a few years of scouting reports for your benefit. The people that compared him to St Louis in terms of style of play. NHL Central scouting, for one, likes to slap playing style labels on the players to make the fans have some sort of concept of what they drafted in a perfect world. If that is not enough, I have heard Hakan Andersson say his style of play is like St Louis in video and in print.

Okay, I feel the need to feel better about this so,

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Three examples of what I am talking about.

Now for what I seen. He is a sniper, he is fast, he has skills, he goes hard and wild at the net. His size makes these efforts sometimes less than fruitful, but he possesses maybe the best shot of all of the prospects I have seen in the system now, maybe in a long time (as Johan has the best one of all recent prospect but his shot came on while in the NHL).

Again, style of play doesn't mean production. I just know you don't rule it out until you see the guy play at the NHL level for a good long while. I mean you can just look at our current roster...

If the Wings traded Franzen, Kronner, Val, Datsyuk, or Hank (some developed prospects who have several years of experience) even in their first couple of seasons in the league... they would have lost a ton of value as they were no where near their best hockey even three seasons in...

I am just saying, would you want to get rid of these guys before they even played a game? Last time I checked, all of these guys were ranked even lower as prospects than Tatar at his age.

Would you have been okay moving them for let's say Pavel Bure? in 2001? Or Alexi Yashin in 1999?

Good trades according to your logic.

Final proof, Let's look at a prospect ranking from 1999....

I think it will speak for itself.

Prospects 1999

Oh I can't wait for you to read it... Dats is 11. Zetter is 20. Fischer is 1. and 4. Yuri Butsayev, C is the top forward.

My point is you can't be so damn sure, and the Wings know this...

Tatar established himself high amongst prospects and has remained high. That consistency bodes well, and while no one can be sure... I wouldn't trade him based on the suggestion of some random guy whose experience watching Sea Dog games makes him capable of determining that Tatar 100% FOR SURE, will be a worse NHL player than four guys that have only one or two years experience at leagues several rungs lower than the NHL and AHL for that matter.

You are entitled to your opinion on what you saw, I don't slight you for it. I am glad you at least watch some hockey before making an opinion. I just am saying, the track record of the scouting staff, the rankings, the opinions of players, (including Tatar, his peers, those that went ahead of him, and those following behind him) and the stats suggest he is worth a look in the NHL.

I know this makes the point that he might have trade value high enough to make a trade. I just suggest to you that getting Nash, Semin, Parise, or some other sniper with a package including Tatar runs the risk of making a trade like Datsyuk for Yashin. You just don't know... and Holland doesn't seem willing to make that move. Good or bad.

My problem is that you "ASKED" if Tatar is better than what you have "seen," then immediately refused what everyone else said in the thread. Your point by making this thread was not to gain more information, it was to make a point. I don't even know what the point is, but it was clear it had something to do with the idea we would trade Tatar if you were in charge.

Shrugs. I guess that is what bugs me about it. I really hope you don't think I am being mean or unfair. I just am perplexed by the way this thread has unraveled. I stand with Nill and the scouting staff, the guy was worth a second round pick and then proved he could play with men at 18 and has improved every year. I want to see him play with the Wings, not only as a rookie, but at 26-27, because at that point we might have something great. Time will only tell.

Second thing. I watch a ton of hockey and play hockey. As for the Wings, I haven't missed a game in 15 years. Griffins games are harder to see if you don't live in the area or want to pay for their streaming package. I won't pretend I have seen a bunch of it, I have broken down tape as it comes available. (youtube and what little experience he has had in international and NHL play) I have watched games at every level of Michigan minors, developmental, kids, and rec league hockey. I am no expert, I don't pretend to be. The only thing I can claim is having a pretty good track record at guessing who Holland likes and dislikes, having predicted trades of Schneider and Lang as well as some predicting some prospect success (granted it was in the thread of buying a Zetterberg jersey during his first career game and telling others who was going to be big this year...) I know hockey, and I know football, and I know team building, and I know coaching. I don't know dick about baseball, and I know little of basketball. Hockey is my greatest love. I also could care less what you think about my knowledge on hockey. You might have watched him more than me, but again I am not going to suggest that makes you an authority on that matter either. A ton of people watch every Wings game here and they get crazy ideas as to who is good and who is bad. That in and of itself doesn't ensure anything. I have coaching and scouting experience when it comes to football, and I will tell you that watching sports and breaking down individual players are extremely different things. For all I know you watch the play and have never followed Tatar away from the puck,seen him practice, or watch the same tape 10 times in a row. I will say that I trust the hockey scouts at the Joe more than either of us, partially because they do these things as a staff, and they are higher on this kid than our other prospects. They have a record I can look at and say, yeah I trust their opinion. Again I will say, Time will tell.

In the end, time told us with many prospects we traded away, both good and bad. Though with the cap; it seems the hometown discount and the years where you get them on first and second contracts, at least financially, are worth keeping the prospects.

I hope since I took the time to write this, you take the time to read it. I also hope everyone liked it.