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Tomas Tatar


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#21 Konnan511

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:19 PM

. A great source to check out our future is. Hockeysfuture.com.

In the post you quoted, he literally said he didn't like HFboards lol.
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#22 Majsheppard

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:28 PM

Ok, when did i once say I didnt know about him and I didnt follow his progression? I was saying I know a lot about him and I have followed him and all of our other top prospects. I just dont see him anywhere near the top in our prospect pool. I wanted opinions and I'm listening to your opinion just like I listen to everyone elses I just dont agree with you at all. I wasnt asking why he is good, I was asking why he is viewed as being good, because I just don't see it. I didnt once say you are wrong, yes I disagree with you but you may very well be right on with your opinion, I just cant see this kid being anything more than a 3rd/4th line player.

You're trying to compare him to St. Louis, that is crazy. I dont care how long it took St. Louis to break out, because we all know what a late bloomer this guy was. Very few people ever thought he was ever going to make it to the NHL let alone be the player he is today, because of his size. And he never was drafted but you cannot compare this young kid from Slovakia to future Hall of Famer, Martin "Iron Man" St. Louis.


The comparison is in how they play the game. Search the internet... you will find many comparisons in game play. Does that mean he will finish as much as St Louis? Not necessarily... but if he lives up to potential he could. The point in comparing their NHL paths is to make you realize IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL! Yet it isn't too soon to realize you want to see where he goes.

As for you thinking he is only a 3rd or 4th liner... that is a joke to me. Hudler plays on our second line with Bertuzi from time to time. Tatar if called up right now would be a fourth liner... Just like Pav and Zetter were for a year or so... as depth. You see, players have to get used to the speed and the system, as well as develop chemistry.

You remember that guy Franzen? People didn't see that developing the way it did, and he put in his dues on the lower levels and lower lines then earned his spot. Tatar will do the same, not saying he will be on par with Johan but that he will have to earn it. You are sure he won't be anything like I am sure you would have been with Johan. Take some time, take some patience to let the guys prove themselves. There are so many examples on our team alone for you to think twice before saying what you are saying. Yet you won't give the chance to the FASTEST prospect in a decade to prove himself ready for the AHL?!?!?!

HOW DO YOU NOT FIND THAT CRAZY?!?! He proved to the pro scouts that his 18 year old game was good enough for the rung right below the NHL... I would assume you would want to at least wait to see what his value would be when his body is age appropriate for the AHL AT LEAST!

With his skill set and the right amount of muscle and hustle, he could be a ppg player in the NHL. COULD BE.

You don't trade that upside without serious reservations and a clear upgrade. I don't see anyone that Tatar could be trade for in a package that would be the kind of upgrade to validate his loss and the other team would take.

Creating threads about wanting to know about a kid, then refusing what you hear back and suggesting you want him traded... just be honest... you have no clue about him and don't really care you just want to hear that we could move him for a big name. I don't think it is happening, nor would it be wise to move a first, a second, and him for one guy.

Tatar might be the real deal, as is Jurco. They were a first and second respectively. You want to get rid of Jurco, Tatar, and another Tatar perhaps in value? Trust in the scouts. They are doing a good job. Otherwise you might eat a ton of crow if Tatar were to become the next Pavel or Henrik or Johan. It is possible, because at his age neither were exactly world beaters either. They were just kids with a nack for the game and upside trapped in young bodies and lacking experience. Just like Tatar, and only time will tell if he follows the same path. We do know to this point he is walking the line extremely well.
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Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#23 pockets

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:02 PM

I'll explain why without going into stats. The fact Tatar is NHL ready is what makes him ranked above Calle, Teemu and others. Nobody knows if those others will even be NHLers yet, just b/c you dominate lower leagues, doesn't mean you are going to call all the way.

#24 kerism17

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:01 AM

The comparison is in how they play the game. Search the internet... you will find many comparisons in game play. Does that mean he will finish as much as St Louis? Not necessarily... but if he lives up to potential he could. The point in comparing their NHL paths is to make you realize IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL! Yet it isn't too soon to realize you want to see where he goes.

As for you thinking he is only a 3rd or 4th liner... that is a joke to me. Hudler plays on our second line with Bertuzi from time to time. Tatar if called up right now would be a fourth liner... Just like Pav and Zetter were for a year or so... as depth. You see, players have to get used to the speed and the system, as well as develop chemistry.

You remember that guy Franzen? People didn't see that developing the way it did, and he put in his dues on the lower levels and lower lines then earned his spot. Tatar will do the same, not saying he will be on par with Johan but that he will have to earn it. You are sure he won't be anything like I am sure you would have been with Johan. Take some time, take some patience to let the guys prove themselves. There are so many examples on our team alone for you to think twice before saying what you are saying. Yet you won't give the chance to the FASTEST prospect in a decade to prove himself ready for the AHL?!?!?!

HOW DO YOU NOT FIND THAT CRAZY?!?! He proved to the pro scouts that his 18 year old game was good enough for the rung right below the NHL... I would assume you would want to at least wait to see what his value would be when his body is age appropriate for the AHL AT LEAST!

With his skill set and the right amount of muscle and hustle, he could be a ppg player in the NHL. COULD BE.

You don't trade that upside without serious reservations and a clear upgrade. I don't see anyone that Tatar could be trade for in a package that would be the kind of upgrade to validate his loss and the other team would take.

Creating threads about wanting to know about a kid, then refusing what you hear back and suggesting you want him traded... just be honest... you have no clue about him and don't really care you just want to hear that we could move him for a big name. I don't think it is happening, nor would it be wise to move a first, a second, and him for one guy.

Tatar might be the real deal, as is Jurco. They were a first and second respectively. You want to get rid of Jurco, Tatar, and another Tatar perhaps in value? Trust in the scouts. They are doing a good job. Otherwise you might eat a ton of crow if Tatar were to become the next Pavel or Henrik or Johan. It is possible, because at his age neither were exactly world beaters either. They were just kids with a nack for the game and upside trapped in young bodies and lacking experience. Just like Tatar, and only time will tell if he follows the same path. We do know to this point he is walking the line extremely well.



You know only something like 18-20% of players that are drafted play more than 200 games in the NHL. That is extremely low, and Im willing to bet that only about 10% of the players reach their full potential expected of them when they come into the league. Point is, that pretty much every player that is drafted is compared to a big name player. Does that mean that is the player they will become? Hell no, it simply means they have a similar style of play. That comparison is usually their ceiling but most of the players that come into the league don't play up to these high expectations. It would be impossible seeming how so many players get such rave reviews, and because of this fans like yourself think every player that comes up through the system is going to be the next big thing and we cannot part with any of our prospects.

Id like to know where you heard Tatar is supposed to be like Martin St. Louis? I've heard many comparable players, none of which were St. Louis. Ive heard Milan Hejduk and Peter Bondra amoung others but that doesnt mean this kid is going to be the next any of these players, it just means they play a similar game. I would love to have a young Hejduk, Bondra, or St. Louis coming up but the chances of that being the case is slim, so to part with a few of our mediocre prospects for a couple proven players would work for me.

You dont even read my posts. You keep saying that I "wanted to know about Tatar" I never once said that I wanted to know about him, I want to know why there are so many fans that think he is the next big thing coming up the pipe, because I dont think he is at all. We have much better prospects in our system.

I dont know you, I dont know how much you know about hockey, and I dont know how much you follow the Wings, just like you know nothing about me. I can tell you though, I dont miss a Wings game and I watch most Griffins games and Ive also watched quite a few Sea Dogs games. Ive watched around 40 Griffins games, 10 or so Sea Dogs games, as well as most of the World Juniors, so dont try to tell me I dont have a clue about him, I bet Ive seen him and most of our top prospects play a hell of a lot more than you have. Yes hes a good player but I dont love what I see in him. I see a lot more skill and potential in some of our other prospects. And THAT is what THIS topic was about.

#25 eva unit zero

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:02 PM

Why is Tomas Tatar so high on our list of top prospects? Many people think he is our top forward prospect and I just dont get it at all.

I think Tatar should be behind Gustav Nyquist for sure, and also behind Teemu Pulkkinen, Calle Jarnkrok and Tomas Jurco, and even behind Jan Mursak in my opinion. I just really dont see why everyone thinks this guy is going to be so good. Someone please explain what is so great about this kid.



He deserves to be high on the list but anyone that has him above Nyquist or Jarnkrok just dont have knowledge of prospects.

As for Pulkkinen, definitely not above Tatar. Jurco is close, but Tatar has shown he can play in the NHL and is much closer to a full time job there while Jurco has had one great season in the q. Jurco is definitely moving up the list quickly however.

Tatar has good speed, is very competitive and willing to go into traffic despite his size. He has a pretty good offensive package, but not amazing. He looks like he should be a solid second line winger which is pretty good `50 points



He is behind Gustav. After that there's a log jam of guys who proved they can dominate the junior game, can dominate college kids and can dominate other foreigners. Tatar had proven at 18 he can play with men and play well. That's where his hype has come from. He is fast with a gnarly shot. and built like a mini tank.



Living in Grand Rapids I have seen many Griffins games the past few years. IMO Tatar has never really stood out to me as a star player, especially now seeing Nyquist play. He's not a bad player by any means, just doesn't seem to impact the game in the same ways that Nyquist does so that is why he is below Nyquist as far as prospects go. Considering we have plenty of upcoming propects and everyone seems to be pretty high on Tatar as a prospect around the league, I wouldn't be opposed to looking to trade him in a package for a sniper at wing. Obviously it depends on who would be coming our way in the trade, but I just don't see Tatar being a top line player in his career!




Here is why Tatar is perhaps the best forward prospect in the organization, aside from perhaps Jurco who is in juniors.


Gustav Nyquist is 22, almost 23.
Tatar just turned 21.
Pulkkinen just turned 20.
Jurco just turned 19.
Sheahan just turned 20.
Jarnkrok is 20.


Mursak and Emmerton were both ranked similarly highly (potential second-liners) and are not much older (both are 23), but they are both on the team now - ahead of Nyquist.


Nyquist is looking great in Grand Rapids, no doubt. But he's two years older than Tatar, who is ALSO looking great. Tatar's production at 21 is similar to Hudler's in Grand Rapids. However, Hudler at 22 was far, far beyond what Nyquist is doing and at 23 he was in the NHL with the Wings and putting up strong offensive numbers even on the fourth line. Since then, Hudler has always been one of the league's top 180 scoring forwards at year's end. Tatar is on that path pretty solidly. Nyquist, not nearly as much.

Jurco might have an edge up as he's a very good junior prospect and has the size advantage, but Tatar has a definite advantage defensively.

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#26 VM1138

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:28 PM

It also seems like Nyquist just sort of popped on the radar this season. Tatar has been hyped up for years, and like people said, he hasn't really disappointed, despite not blowing open the AHL. Not every NHL superstar dominates the AHL. I'm not saying he will be a superstar, but he hasn't been a bust and you don't just give up on someone with the potential of being a first liner on the Red Wings. When he's 21.

Edited by VM1138, 15 February 2012 - 03:28 PM.

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#27 Majsheppard

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:40 PM

Id like to know where you heard Tatar is supposed to be like Martin St. Louis? I've heard many comparable players, none of which were St. Louis. Ive heard Milan Hejduk and Peter Bondra amoung others but that doesnt mean this kid is going to be the next any of these players, it just means they play a similar game. I would love to have a young Hejduk, Bondra, or St. Louis coming up but the chances of that being the case is slim, so to part with a few of our mediocre prospects for a couple proven players would work for me.

You dont even read my posts. You keep saying that I "wanted to know about Tatar" I never once said that I wanted to know about him, I want to know why there are so many fans that think he is the next big thing coming up the pipe, because I dont think he is at all. We have much better prospects in our system.

I dont know you, I dont know how much you know about hockey, and I dont know how much you follow the Wings, just like you know nothing about me. I can tell you though, I dont miss a Wings game and I watch most Griffins games and Ive also watched quite a few Sea Dogs games. Ive watched around 40 Griffins games, 10 or so Sea Dogs games, as well as most of the World Juniors, so dont try to tell me I dont have a clue about him, I bet Ive seen him and most of our top prospects play a hell of a lot more than you have. Yes hes a good player but I dont love what I see in him. I see a lot more skill and potential in some of our other prospects. And THAT is what THIS topic was about.


Okay, the tone of this might come off as arrogant or angry. I just ask you read it all and know, I am not mad or screaming or anything. I just want to make a few points, and I really don't mean you any disrespect. Please do not read it that way.


First point: Go google for yourself all the comparisons, because I am not sifting through a few years of scouting reports for your benefit. The people that compared him to St Louis in terms of style of play. NHL Central scouting, for one, likes to slap playing style labels on the players to make the fans have some sort of concept of what they drafted in a perfect world. If that is not enough, I have heard Hakan Andersson say his style of play is like St Louis in video and in print.

Okay, I feel the need to feel better about this so,

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Three examples of what I am talking about.

Now for what I seen. He is a sniper, he is fast, he has skills, he goes hard and wild at the net. His size makes these efforts sometimes less than fruitful, but he possesses maybe the best shot of all of the prospects I have seen in the system now, maybe in a long time (as Johan has the best one of all recent prospect but his shot came on while in the NHL).

Again, style of play doesn't mean production. I just know you don't rule it out until you see the guy play at the NHL level for a good long while. I mean you can just look at our current roster...

If the Wings traded Franzen, Kronner, Val, Datsyuk, or Hank (some developed prospects who have several years of experience) even in their first couple of seasons in the league... they would have lost a ton of value as they were no where near their best hockey even three seasons in...

I am just saying, would you want to get rid of these guys before they even played a game? Last time I checked, all of these guys were ranked even lower as prospects than Tatar at his age.
Would you have been okay moving them for let's say Pavel Bure? in 2001? Or Alexi Yashin in 1999?

Good trades according to your logic.


Final proof, Let's look at a prospect ranking from 1999....

I think it will speak for itself.

Prospects 1999

Oh I can't wait for you to read it... Dats is 11. Zetter is 20. Fischer is 1. and 4. Yuri Butsayev, C is the top forward.

My point is you can't be so damn sure, and the Wings know this...

Tatar established himself high amongst prospects and has remained high. That consistency bodes well, and while no one can be sure... I wouldn't trade him based on the suggestion of some random guy whose experience watching Sea Dog games makes him capable of determining that Tatar 100% FOR SURE, will be a worse NHL player than four guys that have only one or two years experience at leagues several rungs lower than the NHL and AHL for that matter.

You are entitled to your opinion on what you saw, I don't slight you for it. I am glad you at least watch some hockey before making an opinion. I just am saying, the track record of the scouting staff, the rankings, the opinions of players, (including Tatar, his peers, those that went ahead of him, and those following behind him) and the stats suggest he is worth a look in the NHL.

I know this makes the point that he might have trade value high enough to make a trade. I just suggest to you that getting Nash, Semin, Parise, or some other sniper with a package including Tatar runs the risk of making a trade like Datsyuk for Yashin. You just don't know... and Holland doesn't seem willing to make that move. Good or bad.

My problem is that you "ASKED" if Tatar is better than what you have "seen," then immediately refused what everyone else said in the thread. Your point by making this thread was not to gain more information, it was to make a point. I don't even know what the point is, but it was clear it had something to do with the idea we would trade Tatar if you were in charge.

Shrugs. I guess that is what bugs me about it. I really hope you don't think I am being mean or unfair. I just am perplexed by the way this thread has unraveled. I stand with Nill and the scouting staff, the guy was worth a second round pick and then proved he could play with men at 18 and has improved every year. I want to see him play with the Wings, not only as a rookie, but at 26-27, because at that point we might have something great. Time will only tell.


Second thing. I watch a ton of hockey and play hockey. As for the Wings, I haven't missed a game in 15 years. Griffins games are harder to see if you don't live in the area or want to pay for their streaming package. I won't pretend I have seen a bunch of it, I have broken down tape as it comes available. (youtube and what little experience he has had in international and NHL play) I have watched games at every level of Michigan minors, developmental, kids, and rec league hockey. I am no expert, I don't pretend to be. The only thing I can claim is having a pretty good track record at guessing who Holland likes and dislikes, having predicted trades of Schneider and Lang as well as some predicting some prospect success (granted it was in the thread of buying a Zetterberg jersey during his first career game and telling others who was going to be big this year...) I know hockey, and I know football, and I know team building, and I know coaching. I don't know dick about baseball, and I know little of basketball. Hockey is my greatest love. I also could care less what you think about my knowledge on hockey. You might have watched him more than me, but again I am not going to suggest that makes you an authority on that matter either. A ton of people watch every Wings game here and they get crazy ideas as to who is good and who is bad. That in and of itself doesn't ensure anything. I have coaching and scouting experience when it comes to football, and I will tell you that watching sports and breaking down individual players are extremely different things. For all I know you watch the play and have never followed Tatar away from the puck,seen him practice, or watch the same tape 10 times in a row. I will say that I trust the hockey scouts at the Joe more than either of us, partially because they do these things as a staff, and they are higher on this kid than our other prospects. They have a record I can look at and say, yeah I trust their opinion. Again I will say, Time will tell.

In the end, time told us with many prospects we traded away, both good and bad. Though with the cap; it seems the hometown discount and the years where you get them on first and second contracts, at least financially, are worth keeping the prospects.

I hope since I took the time to write this, you take the time to read it. I also hope everyone liked it.
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Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.





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