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up2here

Is Nicklas Lidstrom The Greatest Detroit Red Wing Of All Time?

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First of all congrats to Nick on his 1550 game as a Red Wing, passing Alex Delvecchio. Is Nick the greatest Red Wing of all time? I think I would have to say yes but I'm sure there will be much debate.

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easily.

people might claim yzerman or howe had better careers or were more important to the team's success.

those people would be wrong.

dragonballgtz and Nev like this

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easily.

people might claim yzerman or howe had better careers or were more important to the team's success.

those people would be wrong.

Perhaps....but it is difficult to argue against 6 Art Ross and 6 Hart Trophies. I think a fair number of people would put that ahead of Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies. I'm ignoring the Conn Smythe because Howe didn't really have a chance at that...the Detroit team he played for were pretty much out of the playoff picture by the time that award was introduced.

I know awards isn't the best way to argue a point, but if you take away all of Lidstrom's Norris trophies....it makes it difficult to make a case for him as one of the greats.

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Perhaps....but it is difficult to argue against 6 Art Ross and 6 Hart Trophies. I think a fair number of people would put that ahead of Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies. I'm ignoring the Conn Smythe because Howe didn't really have a chance at that...the Detroit team he played for were pretty much out of the playoff picture by the time that award was introduced.

I know awards isn't the best way to argue a point, but if you take away all of Lidstrom's Norris trophies....it makes it difficult to make a case for him as one of the greats.

Its very difficult to compare eras that are so far apart like Howe's and Nick's. Gordie almost never had to travel to the West Coast or play against European players but him playing against only 5 other teams certainly would have been very tough.

I never saw Gordie play until the late 70's/early80's when he was essentially the shell of himself so its hard for me judge but I wouldnt discredit anyone for saying # 9 was the best.

Edited by UP2HERE

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Nick is certainly up there, but I would have a hard time giving him the Number One spot. Gordie always has been and always will be The Man to me. However, Stevie was more important to the Wings than either Gordie or Nick. It depends on what you're going to base it on.

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You can make a very good case for it. At the same time, one I have a hard time giving that title to anybody. Two, it seems like Nick Lidstrom, for whatever reason, simply won't be revered the way Gordie and Stevie are. In my mind eventually it turns into a comparison based on political idiosyncrasies, which may or may not be valid, who knows? I'm simply happy enough to regard him as one of the best Red Wings of all time.

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With a storied franchise such as the Detroit Red Wings, I find it difficult to single point "Greatest Red Wing of All Time."

For me, it's 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E.

If the question was, is Nick the best defensemen of his era? My answer would be yes, by far.

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If the question was, is Nick the best defensemen of his era? My answer would be yes, by far.

Are you including Ray Bourque in his era? Not sure why you wouldn't since he was still playing for the first half of Lidstrom's career. So, if he's included in that era, there's no way I agree with Lidstrom being the best "by far."

There was a time that I had Bourque ahead of Lidstrom, probably not anymore, but I'd have to step back, a number of years after Lidstrom retires and reassess. Problem is that I'd never have the proper objectivity. What I can say for sure though is that even if I conclude Lidstrom is the better player, there's no way it would be by a wide margin.

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Are you including Ray Bourque in his era? Not sure why you wouldn't since he was still playing for the first half of Lidstrom's career. So, if he's included in that era, there's no way I agree with Lidstrom being the best "by far."

There was a time that I had Bourque ahead of Lidstrom, probably not anymore, but I'd have to step back, a number of years after Lidstrom retires and reassess. Problem is that I'd never have the proper objectivity. What I can say for sure though is that even if I conclude Lidstrom is the better player, there's no way it would be by a wide margin.

Definitely not anymore.

The only reason Bourque is still in the discussion as to being ahead of Lidstrom is because he is a good Canadian boy who played a more physical game than Nick.

If Lids was canadian the only real discussion would be if he's 2nd or 3rd behind Harvey. Once he's retired a few years and people take a more objective look at all he accomplished in his career, there's really little question he deserves to be ahead of Bourque.

More on topic, I can't really say if he's the greatest Red Wing of all time. It's basically Lidstrom, Howe and Yzerman. You could make a strong case for any of them depending on what criteria you use.

Motown4013 and AceInTheSleeve like this

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That's a tough one. We as Detroit fans are lucky to be contemplating who, the greatest was. I think this is an endless argument with possibilities of Howe, Lindsay, Abel, and Sawchuk that paid the price early on, and built a history. Then a kid named Yzerman that in a sense resurrected this organization single handedly in the 80's.

I think my pick would have to be Yzerman for my 1a. He was the cornerstone building block for the modern era Detroit teams.

Let me edit this. I have seemed to hurt many feelings here today:

Edited by miller76
TheDetroitRedWings likes this

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Then a continuance of talent of Lidstrom, McCarty, and Draper.

mccarty and draper shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as lidstrom.

Opie and GMRwings1983 like this

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Well first of all, it depends on how you define greatest

Best player? Then its a toss-up between Howe and Lidstrom

Most revered by fans? Then its unquestionably Stevie. He was, is and always will be, more popular amongst Wings fans than Nick.

And round and round the houses its goes. One is called Mr Hockey. Another led the transition from laughing stock to benchmark. The arrival of the third exactly coincided with the rise to greatness.

Perhaps....but it is difficult to argue against 6 Art Ross and 6 Hart Trophies. I think a fair number of people would put that ahead of Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies

Is Nick Lidstrom the best player to have never won the Hart Trophy? Its his misfortune to play in the era when being the best player on the best team means you are almost guaranteed to NOT win the Hart. 20 years of Wings dominance, only 1 Hart.

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I have Howe 2nd all-time, behind only Wayne Gretzky. He has led the league in points by Lemieux-like margins, but was mean and good defensively as well. He finished top 5 in points for 20 straight years - next closest is Gretzky at 16. He also led the league in postseason points 5 times.

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No way he's ahead of Gordie.

Although, I do have him second ahead of Yzerman.

In terms of importance to the franchise, he's behind both those players.

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Well you could argue Lidstrom, Yzerman, or Howe. I'm obviously biased in Yzerman's favor, but I would have to go with Gordie Howe on this one. I never got to see him play, but from what I've heard Howe dominated his era much more than Lidstrom or Yzerman dominated theirs. Actually, Yzerman never really truly "dominated," but he was no doubt the key piece in turning the Dead Wings into the force they have been for the past 2 decades. Also, Budd Lynch I believe is on record saying that Gordie Howe is the best hockey player he has ever seen, and the man has been in the business for like 70 years now. At the end of the day though, the order doesn't matter. The fact that we are lucky enough to even have this discussion speaks volumes about how great this team truly is. I mean when Lidstrom, Howe, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lindsay, Sawchuk, and Delvecchio are in the discussion as the best of all-time, you know your team is truly special.

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Well I'm a #19 man till I die but Howe and lids are prob more important/ better players. In defense of lids , he and thus the wings team ,has never missed the playoffs in his time here and that says a lot about how amazing he has been.

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Really tough question. Lidstrom definitely has the resume to be considered the best. 7 Norris trophies, 6 SCF appearances, 4 Stanley Cups, 1 Conn Smythe, 1 Gold medal. And Howe... well he was without question the greatest of all time before Gretzky showed up. I always tend to lean towards Yzerman though. Yeah, he doesn't have the awards and championships like the others, but he played at a really tough time. Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky, both considered to be two of the greatest hockey players of all time, were both in their prime at the same time Yzerman was in his. How many Art Ross and Hart trophies did Yzerman miss out on because he played during the same era as those two? How many Norris Trophies would Lidstrom have if he played during the same time as Bobby Orr? How many scoring championships would Howe have if he played during the same time as Mario and Wayne? Yzerman also played on some really bad teams during his career. The same can't be said for Lidstrom and Howe who played most of their careers on really good championship caliber teams.

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From an all time best player Lidstrom is second behind Gordie quite easily. Gordie is without question a top 4 player all time and I have hi behind Gretzky and Orr. 6 hart trophies, leading the league in scoring while being the toughest fighter and playing very solid defensive hockey. He is Mr. Hockey for gods sake. We all love Nick but hes not the player Gordie was.

From a who was the better "redwing" I have him behind Yzerman as well, even though he was a better player from an all time stand point than Steve was.

So in short, the answer is no to your question

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I have Howe 2nd all-time, behind only Wayne Gretzky. He has led the league in points by Lemieux-like margins, but was mean and good defensively as well. He finished top 5 in points for 20 straight years - next closest is Gretzky at 16. He also led the league in postseason points 5 times.

Off topic now, but interesting that you make reference to Lemieux in terms of how wide of a margin Howe led in points rather than Gretzky. I did a quick comparsion and learned a few things (actually, learned one thing and was reminded of a few others). I didn't realize just how much of a wide marging Howe was winning scoring titles. I guess I just assumed it was small since he didn't put up huge point totals. So here is my comparison in terms of how much each led the rest of the league in the years they won the scoring title.

I've put % in brackets beause scoring was lower in Howe's ara so his margin would look a lot smaller otherwise.

Howe:

'51 - 20pts (30%)

'52 - 17pts (25%)

'53 - 24pts (34%)

'54 - 14pts (21%)

'57 - 4pts (5%)

'63 - 5pts (6%)

Lemieux:

'88 - 31pts (18%)

'89 - 19pts (13%)

'92 - 8pts (7%)

'93 - 12pts (8%)

'96 - 12pts (8%)

'97 - 13pts (12%)

Gretzky:

'81 - 29pts (21%)

'82 - 65pts (44%)

'83 - 72pts (58%)

'84 - 86pts (68%)

'85 - 73pts (54%)

'86 - 74pts (52%)

'87 - 75pts (69%)

'90 - 13pts (10%)

'91 - 32pts (24%)

'94 - 10pts (8%)

A lot of people discount Gretzky's stats because he played in an era where every scored a ton. This is true, but the extent to which he dominated is quite amazing. The bolded stats are just plain stupid.

Another interesting note, if Lemieux didn't miss the entire 94/95 season, he or Gretzky would likely have won teh scoring title for 17 years in a row.

Edit - formatting

Edited by toby91_ca

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Boy that's a tough one. The best Red Wing I have ever seen play for the Wings is Stevie Y. However I am too young to have seen Gordie, Lindsay, Delvecchio, Sawchuk, Kelly, Lilja :lol: , etc. But to me Lidstrom would be #2 behind Stevie Y with Feds being #3. My disclaimer is that I have only been watching hockey since 1982.

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That's a tough one. We as Detroit fans are lucky to be contemplating who, the greatest was. I think this is an endless argument with possibilities of Howe, Lindsay, Abel, and Sawchuk that paid the price early on, and built a history. Then a kid named Yzerman that in a sense resurrected this organization single handedly in the 80's. Then a continuance of talent of Lidstrom, McCarty, and Draper.

I think my pick would have to be Yzerman for my 1a. He was the cornerstone building block for the modern era Detroit teams.

You went from Yzerman and Lidstrom then directly to McCarty and Draper??

Really?

Edited by cprice12

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Outside Hater Here but I would say Lidstrom is the all time best defenseman. Howe is the best forward all time. Now who is the best Goalie of all time for you b######s! :siren:

Edited by Cajanek_Spielmacher

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