Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 I haven't read the entire thread, but I just thought... could Conklin be a part of the deal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 I haven't read the entire thread, but I just thought... could Conklin be a part of the deal? He's an old goalie and has been terrible this season. Why would Tampa want him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 He's an old goalie and has been terrible this season. Why would Tampa want him? Because if anyone thinks he could turn it around, it would be Yzerman. Also low risk, and their goaltending has been pretty poor as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 As a rental bottom pairing DMan it's not a bad idea. He'd help out against the bigger bodied teams. Throw in Quine and a moderate pick and see if that can get the ball rolling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 Am I understanding you correctly? Kubina would only be a clear upgrade over Ericsson, and not the two defenseman who've been alternating healthy scratches this season? There are people who still seriously think right now Kindl is a better player than Ericsson? You don't think that's a clear upgrade over a 25 year old D man who lost his spot in the lineup because he plays much smaller than he is, and his development seems to have tapered off? Going into the playoffs with an Ericsson Kubina bottom pairing, and Kubina on the 2nd unit PP is a definite upgrade. Kindl is young, Ericson was in the same boat, as is every young defenseman. Kindl plays better than Commodore, and is growing. All I am saying is you get rid of Kindl, be prepared for him to be a solid player. I forgot who said it, but this could be Kyle Quincey all over again. In order for you to get me, I will say this straight. I would rather have a 25 year old than a 34 year old right now on this team. I would rather have Kindl than Ericson. Not only because I think he will be a better player in the long run, but because his contract is garbage. Jonathan might end up being a solid defenseman, and people don't give him credit for how much he has improved. I just think his ceiling is drawing near, and Kindl hasn't had enough time to show his full potential. In the modern era, you just don't give up on players early. I think it is too soon to give up on E as well, but if you are going to give up on someone it would be him. As a rental bottom pairing DMan it's not a bad idea. He'd help out against the bigger bodied teams. Throw in Quine and a moderate pick and see if that can get the ball rolling. I don't want to give up Quine for him. I would offer Ericson and Conklin with a mid round pick for Kubina and a late round pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 Kindl is young, Ericson was in the same boat, as is every young defenseman. Kindl plays better than Commodore, and is growing. All I am saying is you get rid of Kindl, be prepared for him to be a solid player. I forgot who said it, but this could be Kyle Quincey all over again. In order for you to get me, I will say this straight. I would rather have a 25 year old than a 34 year old right now on this team. I would rather have Kindl than Ericson. Not only because I think he will be a better player in the long run, but because his contract is garbage. Jonathan might end up being a solid defenseman, and people don't give him credit for how much he has improved. I just think his ceiling is drawing near, and Kindl hasn't had enough time to show his full potential. In the modern era, you just don't give up on players early. I think it is too soon to give up on E as well, but if you are going to give up on someone it would be him. the thing everyone ignores with Ericsson is that he has a NMC. And he already is a solid defenseman. He's just overpaid for his role as basically the #5 guy. I hear what you're saying about Kindl being younger, but I think because of Lids potential retirement and Stuart potentially going back to Cali, Kubina becomes a lot more interesting. It improves the Wings immediately for the playoffs and potentially helps fill Stuart's role if he leaves and they re-sign Kubina (assuming he plays well). I think Kindl may be a victim of the Wings current roster. They have Ericsson locked up as a #5 (potential 4) guy who is more stay at home, plays physical, kills penalties, and has a great first pass. Smith is coming up as a talented offensive player who can play on the PP, and already plays more physical than Kindl. Kindl right now isn't as physical as he should be, is better than E offensively but not as good as Smith. Unless he takes some big steps forward in his development, he's basically a #6/7 plug. Hopefully he'll keep developing and the Wings will have the luxury of a few young, big defenseman. But like I said, because of the situation with Lids and Stuart, the Kubina thing is interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 You know, secretly Tatar is hoping he is traded so he can play with St Louis. Secretly I am hoping we trade for St Louis. I would take him and Kubina if it was possible without destroying our farm system. Likely, it would not be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) the thing everyone ignores with Ericsson is that he has a NMC. And he already is a solid defenseman. He's just overpaid for his role as basically the #5 guy. I hear what you're saying about Kindl being younger, but I think because of Lids potential retirement and Stuart potentially going back to Cali, Kubina becomes a lot more interesting. It improves the Wings immediately for the playoffs and potentially helps fill Stuart's role if he leaves and they re-sign Kubina (assuming he plays well). I think Kindl may be a victim of the Wings current roster. They have Ericsson locked up as a #5 (potential 4) guy who is more stay at home, plays physical, kills penalties, and has a great first pass. Smith is coming up as a talented offensive player who can play on the PP, and already plays more physical than Kindl. Kindl right now isn't as physical as he should be, is better than E offensively but not as good as Smith. Unless he takes some big steps forward in his development, he's basically a #6/7 plug. Hopefully he'll keep developing and the Wings will have the luxury of a few young, big defenseman. But like I said, because of the situation with Lids and Stuart, the Kubina thing is interesting. I am not overlooking the NMC. I didn't say it would happen. It is just a statement saying that is the only way I would be okay with it. I just want to say that Kindl's age and experience in the system is important. I believe you can't go to the young guys too fast, so that leaves Smith. If they lose Stuart and add Kubina, that means you have old and very young with E being the only guy in the middle. For the sake of argument... Let's say they add Kubina for Kindl, and then next year Lids comes back, they don't add anyone of note. So we have Lids, White, Kroner, Kubina, E, Smith, Commodore and maybe some minor addition... Ages next year. 42, 28, 31, 35, 28, 24?, 34 and the following year maybe... 29, 32, 29,25... and whatever else. If they they kept kindl... it would be 42, 28, 31, 25, 24,34 and the following year. 29,32,29,26,25 which sounds much better to me following the loss of a legend. Make this double when you consider every player in that group has played with Lids and the Wings for at least a season and knows the system. Meaning they can help carry on his style of play by continuing how he taught them. I am a huge proponent of this way of replacing him. This is the major reason I wouldn't want to mess too much with the D. EDIT: I also am not assuming Kubina plays well. He has seen better days. Edited February 18, 2012 by Majsheppard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 Also, Kindl is getting some bad press for making a mistake last night, as E has in the past. Kubina is NOT known for his consistency. In fact the bio on The Hockey News suggests he is well known for making mistakes in his zone. To me it feels like adding a right handed Ericsson with more experience. I don't really want to do that unless it doesn't hurt the team. I don't think there a way to do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 I forgot who said it, but this could be Kyle Quincey all over again. If you mean a young d-man who has had plenty of chances to show he belongs but hasn't overly impressed until he's shipped out to another team then yes, I agree. esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsRox 614 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 He's an old goalie and has been terrible this season. Why would Tampa want him? To make Roloson feel good about his game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 If you mean a young d-man who has had plenty of chances to show he belongs but hasn't overly impressed until he's shipped out to another team then yes, I agree. esteef ...and honestly, do we really miss Quincey? Is he tearing up the NHL with his awesomeness? Here is a good way to look at this, do we NEED anyone? Not really, BUT what part of the Wings game has suffered all season and needs the most improvement? The power play. Kubina is a power play specialist that would improve our power play tremendously. I don't know too much about him, except what I read on here, which indicates most users here don't like him, so that helps me form my opinion, but like I have been told many times before when I get mad about trades and non-trades, I am not, or none of us are Ken Holland and a no closer to the NHL than being on this awesome forum. We have a ton of users that are very very hockey smart but if Holland thinks Kubina will help, odds are he will. So, if you can nitpick one area where the Wings need improvement, it's the power play. Kubina will help that and so would Selanne. What type of player is Selanne? He is a sniper who excels on the power play. We aren't gonna land Nash or Perry or Ryan or Iginla or Doan, etc.... so if we are just gonna add tweaks that won't cost too much more than Kindl/prospects/picks or even another bottom 6 player, then give me Kubina and Selanne to rent for the playoffs and let's get going! I really don't think we will miss Kindl, if he indeed is involved in any trade. We haven't missed Quincey since he got waived and we won't miss Kindl. We don't need to improve that much, add Kubina and Selanne and our power play just got a ton better. Improve the power play and watch the road wins start to add up.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 Also, Kindl is getting some bad press for making a mistake last night, as E has in the past. Kubina is NOT known for his consistency. In fact the bio on The Hockey News suggests he is well known for making mistakes in his zone. To me it feels like adding a right handed Ericsson with more experience. I don't really want to do that unless it doesn't hurt the team. I don't think there a way to do that. I didn't see the game last night other than highlights, so I'm not sure exactly what Kindl did. I was more referring to that he hasn't improved and has been a healthy scratch for what, 14 games this season? In general he's failed to impress and Smith is chomping at the bit to get in the lineup. Sure there's still a chance he'll develop into a solid D man but I'd be willing to mortgage the future a bit while Lidstrom is still in the lineup and the Wings are gearing up for a Cup run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Crazy 201 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 I can see Kubina and Hemsky being Red Wings Feb. 28th. Not saying I'd be happy about it but Ken Holland gets paid to run this team and I don't.(probably a good thing) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzie30 170 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Looks like he's going to Philadelphia. @DarrenDreger: Pending league approval, Pavel Kubina has been traded to Philadelphia. Wings dodged a bullet imho. Edited February 18, 2012 by Ozzie30 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Crazy 201 Report post Posted February 18, 2012 I can see Kubina and Hemsky being Red Wings Feb. 28th. Not saying I'd be happy about it but Ken Holland gets paid to run this team and I don't.(probably a good thing) I guess I can take this back! Kubina to Philly per twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff48109 474 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Lebrun is saying Kubina to philly for 2nd and 4th Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Okay, so Yzerman rejected us to show he's his own man. Now he can go ahead and trade us St. Louis. 1 Majsheppard reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Lebrun is saying Kubina to philly for 2nd and 4th http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=388202 Yep...wonder what Hollands offer was. edit: Maybe Detroit was not on his list...it apparently not on Nash's list...maybe the players of the league know something we don't...maybe she, maybe she, maybe, maybe she ran away... Edited February 19, 2012 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majsheppard 203 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Thank god he has been traded to philly. Our second and fourth round picks would likely be at least 1200 NHL career games worth of player. Okay, so Yzerman rejected us to show he's his own man. Now he can go ahead and trade us St. Louis. I honestly would take St Louis if he is available. A first fifth and some mid level prospect? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arag 308 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Kubina to Flyers. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=617680 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsRox 614 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Just a 2nd (2012) and a 4th (2013) ... not even a roster player? That was kind of cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Just a 2nd (2012) and a 4th (2013) ... not even a roster player? That was kind of cheap. That’s what Stuart cost us in 08. Stuart >>>>>Kubina. I’m glad Holland didn’t pay that for Kubina. 2 Majsheppard and Detroit \# 1 Fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 so what happens with the cap situation in Philly. just taking a look - with pronged on IR they still are over the cap according to cap geek with the addition of kubina. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 ...maybe she, maybe she, maybe, maybe she ran away... STP! esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
