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Canucks Vs Detroit in Motor City


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#41 aMonster

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:21 AM

At 41 years old I've seen enough to expect the Cup Curse on Vancouver but that hardly means last season was a disappointment, I'll take a loss in game 7 of a cup final every year if other fans aren't interested unless it means actually taking home the prize ;)

Back to this game though, the comments here suggesting that it matters no more than two points make for entertaining literary calisthenics. The fact is that it is a matter of professional pride for players on both sides to rise to this challenge, if only to benchmark themselves against the next best in their conference and be assured, neither team wants to get rolled over.

As for the fans, there are kids in all camps, I dont get too bent out of shape over it. I respect the Wings as a team with deep talent and regardless of what what the Canucks have or haven't done in the past they too are deep so if some here dont feel this matchup means anything more than 2 points, I challenge them to prove it by not bothering to watch :D

#42 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:52 AM

aMonster's neg count is getting quite high. -20 :hehe: Fans of other teams are really intimidated by us, aren't they?

Anyhow, I could care less if we drop a game to Vancouver. The streak has to end eventually, although if given the choice, I'd lose it to someone other than San Jose or Vancouver. I care a lot more about the playoffs.

Hopefully Abdelkader kicks Lapierre's ass again on Thursday! :boxing:
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#43 Bertmondi

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:30 AM

We didn't offer these opinions unsolicited - they were asked for by a Nucks fan who insists this is a touchstone game. Sorry, but as a hockey fan who saw 30 longer ago than I care to admit, no one outside of Canada and under God only knows what age considers Vancouver an NHL "flagship." And no one has "dumped on" Vancouver in this thread any more than (and quite a bit less than) I've seen Nucks fans do in seasons past; we just don't consider this a game any more important than most. And we've lost regular season series to many whom we have subsequently dismissed from the playoffs. Outside of a divisional rival, regular season series in a good season don't mean a whole lot.
Detroit hasn't had an actual riot since 1968 and I defy you to find any real evidence outside of accusations from non-local media to prove otherwise, yet it's a perpetual joke in North America. Anyone who does have an actual riot is going to hear about it repeatedly from Detroiters. Might as well learn to live with it - it's not going away any time soon.
And it's not luck the Wings have been dominant - it's by the grace of Mike Ilitch and the genius of Jim Devellano. We Michiganders must be right with Jesus to be so blessed.
So I'm sorry if we don't hold the Nucks in the same esteem you do, but I am hard pressed to think of any reason thus far why we should.


I did not mention opinions, I said unsolicited shots. Much in the same way Steve Yzerman and Joe Sakic did not take unsolicited shot at their foes after victory and after retirement (hello Mark Recchi), I would expect fans of opposing teams to do the same. Opinions, certainly. But unsubstantiated insults and vitriol are oftentimes pointless and simply rude.

I see you are speaking using the pronoun "we" as if you represent all Wings fans. I'm sure I've been guilty of the same many times. But this Canuck fan can only speak for himself. And I see the game as a big regular season game. There is nothing wrong with viewing a marquee matchup as important. I'm not sure if you recall but when Karl Malone and Michael Jordan were in the NBA oftentimes NBC would feature those games on the Sunday for a national television audience signifying the relative importance of the game. If you think those games were just the same as Jordan rolling into Vancouver to play the Grizzlies on a Tuesday night then yes, this game on Thursday is just two points.

Further, if you look at the objective reality of the tie-breaking system (i.e. ROW and season series) you will know that in addition to "just two points" being on the line there is playoff positions and perhaps home ice advantage at stake on Thursday night. So with respect to your comment about the importance of season series, I just say you are objectively incorrect. I'm not sure why a Red Wings fan would downplay the importance of this game, but make no mistake, from an objective point of view this is a reasonably important game.

From a subjective point of view, I see a matchup with Detroit as fun and exciting, because it is a good hockey game. I would rather watch Vancouver vs. Detroit than almost any other matchup because its good skilled hockey. Anyhow, I was at Rogers Arena on December 21st and that was one heck of game. The atmosphere, the intensity and the hockey were just at a higher level than Vancouver vs. Columbus or Minnesota.

With respect to the riots, what can I say? They happened. But I mean, you weren't there and you didn't walk the streets during the riot or go to work the next morning at 7AM and see the actual damage. So much in the same way you can say only local media has a handle on the alleged riots in Detroit then I will respond by saying the riots looked at lot worse on TV then they actually were. But a riot by a bunch of drunk teens and 20-something is nothing new in this world. And let's be honest, the riot has nothing to do with the merits of the team, or the vast majority of its fans. Nor did I mention the riot, nor do I care about any riot actual or alleged in Detroit. I mean I won't start talking about the economy of Detroit or the crime rates because well, it is simply not relevant.

As for Vancouver not being a flagship franchise? I beg to differ. They are the seventh most valuable team in the league whilst being in medium-sized market. They have the longest sellout streak going in the NHL. They are highly profitable, in the sense that they pay a large chunk of their revenue in to league coffers for redistribution. They are the second biggest market on HNIC, which is the biggest hockey television production in the world. They have won their division six out of the past eight season...etc...etc...etc...etc. Economically speaking Vancouver, is a flagship franchise for the NHL. Pierre McGuire of NBC was on sports radio in Vancouver yesterday and said that same thing. NBC has no problem putting Vancouver on American television because they are "a huge draw." And the SCF was the "most watched since they started taking ratings in 1971."

The only teams I would place ahead of Vancouver without qualification are the Detroit Red Wings, New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens. In recent years I would add Boston and Chicago, however those teams are extremely recently rejuvenated. And in the same way as these sorts of things ebb and flow, Dallas and Colorado are, at this time, not considered flagship franchises.

As for your comments with respect to Jesus and success, I'll leave you to your superstitions without comment. The fact of the matter is you are either a Red Wings fans by default (meaning you've been lucky for a long time) or you choose to cheer for the because of their success (meaning you are bandwagon jumper). The success of the team, does of course have nothing to do with luck. But the smugness of the fans directly correlates with luck. The true measure of fan therefore is if you stay with a team when they are terrible. Sounds like you are clearly a hardcore Wings fan, but that does not change the fact that an entire generation of Wings fans have not experienced a losing season.

I'm looking forward to a great game. And I know it means a little more to many of you Wings fans than Columbus or Edmonton. Lets be real about it. It is only 2pts, but they are a big 2pts. Viewing SJ or Chi as bigger rivals is natural, but it does not make those games of more importance. OF course, I view Chi and Bos as bigger rivals than Detroit too, but objectively speaking a game against Boston is quite literally just about the 2pts and against the Wings it is not.

I'm sure many/all of you will disagree. Which is fine. But it does not change the fact that I've tried to provide objective analysis and facts to support my points. And I continue to enjoy reading (and sometimes posting) at this website.

Edited by Bertmondi, 21 February 2012 - 07:36 AM.


#44 HockeytownUW

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:04 AM

Vancouver = va fanculo for all you Italians out there.


Anybody speaking Polish: Vancouver = Wan Kurwa
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#45 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:25 AM

At 41 years old I've seen enough to expect the Cup Curse on Vancouver but that hardly means last season was a disappointment, I'll take a loss in game 7 of a cup final every year if other fans aren't interested unless it means actually taking home the prize ;)

Back to this game though, the comments here suggesting that it matters no more than two points make for entertaining literary calisthenics. The fact is that it is a matter of professional pride for players on both sides to rise to this challenge, if only to benchmark themselves against the next best in their conference and be assured, neither team wants to get rolled over.

As for the fans, there are kids in all camps, I dont get too bent out of shape over it. I respect the Wings as a team with deep talent and regardless of what what the Canucks have or haven't done in the past they too are deep so if some here dont feel this matchup means anything more than 2 points, I challenge them to prove it by not bothering to watch :D

Entertaining literary calisthenics? :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is the game obviously means something to you. But you and your other Canucks friend still haven't acknowledged that these teams have played each other three times already this season. And even if Vancouver does win then it means they split the series with Detroit again this year. Yet this game somehow is the one that counts? You're right in that it's a matter of professional pride, just like it would be not to lose to Columbus. Because they're professional hockey players. They take professional pride in not losing hockey games.

So far you're staying true to form for a Canucks fan. Condescendingly telling fans of other teams the "truth" about hockey and being so self involved that you can't imagine your own view of the hockey world isn't fact. The general subtext of your posts is that Vancouver is so special of course this game means a lot to Detroit and its fans. The reality for the Wings fans I know, is it just isn't. The vancouver games have made for some really entertaining regular season hockey, but it's still just another regular season game in the stretch run.

I don't know if the Vancouver media somehow is playing this up to be a big deal or if it's your own creation, but it's getting comical. It's like in years past when the Blues would talk about the huge rivalry in Detroit, when to Wings fans it wasn't even in the top 5.

#46 Grim

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:49 AM

2 points is 2 points... but lets not forget the "game" within the game.

Detroit doesn't blow up the Habs in Dec 2, 1995; they don't giftwrap Patrick Roy to our rivals the Avalanche. We must respect the Canucks for what they are... an already very talented formidable team. Them Canucks also seem to have the Sharks number.

An ugly outcome for either team on Feb 23 may spur a turning-point trade.

#47 puckbags

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:55 AM

At 41 years old I've seen enough to expect the Cup Curse on Vancouver but that hardly means last season was a disappointment, I'll take a loss in game 7 of a cup final every year if other fans aren't interested unless it means actually taking home the prize ;)

Back to this game though, the comments here suggesting that it matters no more than two points make for entertaining literary calisthenics. The fact is that it is a matter of professional pride for players on both sides to rise to this challenge, if only to benchmark themselves against the next best in their conference and be assured, neither team wants to get rolled over.

As for the fans, there are kids in all camps, I dont get too bent out of shape over it. I respect the Wings as a team with deep talent and regardless of what what the Canucks have or haven't done in the past they too are deep so if some here dont feel this matchup means anything more than 2 points, I challenge them to prove it by not bothering to watch :D


That line right there is why there are Red Wings fans and then there is every other teams fans. We don't settle for 2nd which is why its cup or bust every year. It's also why this place becomes a ***** fest when we lose 2 in a row. :lol:

"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Refuses to Work Hard"

 

LGW after 1 loss is irrational, after a few in a row it becomes quite comical, 22 playoff appearances in a row and 4 cups in that time and still going strong. Relaxxxxx !!
 


#48 CopenhagenWing

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:31 AM

correction, DET defeated VAN 2 of 4 games last year.


Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story...

#49 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story...


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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#50 Electrophile

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:44 AM

We really need a better class of troll around these parts. Too many "s*** and quit" types.

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#51 CopenhagenWing

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:35 PM

Further, if you look at the objective reality of the tie-breaking system (i.e. ROW and season series) you will know that in addition to "just two points" being on the line there is playoff positions and perhaps home ice advantage at stake on Thursday night. So with respect to your comment about the importance of season series, I just say you are objectively incorrect. I'm not sure why a Red Wings fan would downplay the importance of this game, but make no mistake, from an objective point of view this is a reasonably important game.


I'll give it to you, it's a 4-point game which is normally rare outside of division match-ups. As a Wings fan (and without sounding condescending) I'm not seeing it as much more than that, the reason being that even if the Wings get a win it will not do them any damn good if they lose the next 5 games.

Vancouver can play .400 hockey the rest of the season and win their division fairly comfortably. But even though Detroit has been able to claw out a slightly bigger points lead in their division, playoff position is at stake for the Wings in every game at this point of this season. A slump could drop them to the 4-5 slot in the standings.

To me, it is a match-up between two very good teams who play the puck possesion game I prefer watching but I'm not going to blow the importance of this game out of proportion.

#52 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:01 PM

Entertaining literary calisthenics? :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is the game obviously means something to you. But you and your other Canucks friend still haven't acknowledged that these teams have played each other three times already this season. And even if Vancouver does win then it means they split the series with Detroit again this year. Yet this game somehow is the one that counts? You're right in that it's a matter of professional pride, just like it would be not to lose to Columbus. Because they're professional hockey players. They take professional pride in not losing hockey games.

So far you're staying true to form for a Canucks fan. Condescendingly telling fans of other teams the "truth" about hockey and being so self involved that you can't imagine your own view of the hockey world isn't fact. The general subtext of your posts is that Vancouver is so special of course this game means a lot to Detroit and its fans. The reality for the Wings fans I know, is it just isn't. The vancouver games have made for some really entertaining regular season hockey, but it's still just another regular season game in the stretch run.

I don't know if the Vancouver media somehow is playing this up to be a big deal or if it's your own creation, but it's getting comical. It's like in years past when the Blues would talk about the huge rivalry in Detroit, when to Wings fans it wasn't even in the top 5.

Was it bad of me to of seen the Nashville game had more importance than the Nucks game? I mean they are the Nucks..... :rolleyes: But in all seriousness I really don't feel this is a big game. I like watching these 2 teams play each other because there is a lot of skill on the ice but In no way do I stop and say "man this one is a touchstone game, we have to win this one" Not sure that I have ever seen that with a nucks game in regular season play.
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#53 Grim

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:16 PM

well the dynamics certainly have changed...

no Datsyuk. The Wings most likely have an excuse to lose the next two games. :(

#54 heretic69

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:20 PM

I did not mention opinions, I said unsolicited shots. Much in the same way Steve Yzerman and Joe Sakic did not take unsolicited shot at their foes after victory and after retirement (hello Mark Recchi), I would expect fans of opposing teams to do the same. Opinions, certainly. But unsubstantiated insults and vitriol are oftentimes pointless and simply rude.

I see you are speaking using the pronoun "we" as if you represent all Wings fans. I'm sure I've been guilty of the same many times. But this Canuck fan can only speak for himself. And I see the game as a big regular season game. There is nothing wrong with viewing a marquee matchup as important. I'm not sure if you recall but when Karl Malone and Michael Jordan were in the NBA oftentimes NBC would feature those games on the Sunday for a national television audience signifying the relative importance of the game. If you think those games were just the same as Jordan rolling into Vancouver to play the Grizzlies on a Tuesday night then yes, this game on Thursday is just two points.


Good matchup, sure, I don't think anyone is denying that. But I really don't see how your analogy using the greatest basketball player of all time fits. Does MJ's hockey equal play for either of the teams? No? Ok then.


Further, if you look at the objective reality of the tie-breaking system (i.e. ROW and season series) you will know that in addition to "just two points" being on the line there is playoff positions and perhaps home ice advantage at stake on Thursday night. So with respect to your comment about the importance of season series, I just say you are objectively incorrect. I'm not sure why a Red Wings fan would downplay the importance of this game, but make no mistake, from an objective point of view this is a reasonably important game.



Maybe because many of us have been watching hockey long enough to know that one regular season game means f*** all? In 2008 we lost TEN games in February, including a 5-1 to the BJ's. And I know that you know how that turned out for us because you were done watching the 'Nucks after the first week of April.

I hate to break it to you but home ice won't be determined on Thursday. There is still a quarter of the season left to play. You can't even point at this game if in the end we lose home ice by one point. It's but one small piece of the bigger picture.


From a subjective point of view, I see a matchup with Detroit as fun and exciting, because it is a good hockey game. I would rather watch Vancouver vs. Detroit than almost any other matchup because its good skilled hockey. Anyhow, I was at Rogers Arena on December 21st and that was one heck of game. The atmosphere, the intensity and the hockey were just at a higher level than Vancouver vs. Columbus or Minnesota.


Again, we know it will (probably) be a good game. The win streak might even be snapped. Still doesn't make it any more important than any of the other 82 games in a season.


As for your comments with respect to Jesus and success, I'll leave you to your superstitions without comment. The fact of the matter is you are either a Red Wings fans by default (meaning you've been lucky for a long time) or you choose to cheer for the because of their success (meaning you are bandwagon jumper). The success of the team, does of course have nothing to do with luck. But the smugness of the fans directly correlates with luck. The true measure of fan therefore is if you stay with a team when they are terrible. Sounds like you are clearly a hardcore Wings fan, but that does not change the fact that an entire generation of Wings fans have not experienced a losing season.


Most of us would consider years like 94, 95, and 06 to be "losing seasons". Success breeds high expectations in anything. What's the excuse for Nucks fans being so insufferable?


I'm looking forward to a great game. And I know it means a little more to many of you Wings fans than Columbus or Edmonton. Lets be real about it. It is only 2pts, but they are a big 2pts. Viewing SJ or Chi as bigger rivals is natural, but it does not make those games of more importance. OF course, I view Chi and Bos as bigger rivals than Detroit too, but objectively speaking a game against Boston is quite literally just about the 2pts and against the Wings it is not.


We get it, it is important to you because it is the Wings. And you want to be more important to us than the Shats or Hawks. It's just that things are complicated right now...maybe in the future but I think we should just be friends.

Considering you can lose on any given night to any team in the league why should it be more important?

I'm sure many/all of you will disagree. Which is fine. But it does not change the fact that I've tried to provide objective analysis and facts to support my points. And I continue to enjoy reading (and sometimes posting) at this website.


Facts? Where? What you've provided is a text block of TL;DR worthy opinions.

2 = 2 is an example of a fact.

#55 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:19 PM

"...touchstone..."
I don't think so; it's just 1/82 of the schedule.


I second that!

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#56 aMonster

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:15 PM

I second that!

I get the need for mitigation of potential pending cognitive disonence, either way I expect a pretty epic effort by both teams.

#57 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:43 PM

I get the need for mitigation of potential pending cognitive disonence, either way I expect a pretty epic effort by both teams.

When you're going to throw around big words like cognitive dissonance to try and sound smart, it helps if you spell it correctly.

Back to Psych 101 for you!

#58 Electrophile

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:57 PM

On top of not spelling it properly, I'm not even sure he used it properly.

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#59 aMonster

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:22 AM

I have a feeling that three syllable words will seem less complicated after Thursdays game, with both teams coming off of losses, how bout Detroit tossing up another stinker? How bout the Canucks puking all over the ice? either way I guarantee all an entertaining bout well in advance ;)

#60 ComradeWasabi

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:06 PM

^ "Entertaining," "literary," and "calisthenics" all have four syllables. Clearly your English was stronger than your math in school.

Also, why are you here? You clearly have absolutely no interest in discussing the game - all you're doing on this forum right now is trolling. If you really are 41 years old, I would hope there's something more productive you could be doing with your life.

Good luck getting the 2 points on Thursday. If we meet you in the playoffs - i.e., in games that actually matter - and want to have a real discussion about hockey, come on back. Just don't come in, s*** on our porch and tell us we should be really worried about getting it cleaned up.
QUOTE (thedisappearer @ December 13, 2008 - 10:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, we're dogpiling on the goalie sammy Hudler the defense the refs league bias against us coaching now? Ok.

Babcock is lazy and he sucks!





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