• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

b.shanafan14

Johan Franzen Depreciation

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

He was demoted to the third line in practice today.

Great, now he is going to screw up another line that is meshing :P. Seriously though, I hate this. Helm Abdelkader Miller have been chewing up opposition defense and have been our best unit for a few weeks now. I would rather sit Franzen and make him watch how they operate without messing things up.

I understand the logic of putting him with guys who are busting their asses, hoping it rubs off on him, while at the same time checking his ego by 'demoting' him, but it stinks in my opinion. Now the fourth line... :D (I honestly have no clue what to do with Franzen; don't like wasting anyone's effort on him until he fixes his attitude, really, knowing full well that is unrealistic)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And this relates to Gomez, how?

Goal scorers have slumps. Franzen has shown to have more irritating slumps than most goal scorers, but still can put the biscuit in the basket a good number of times over the course of the season.

Gomez has proven to be relatively useless in every single facet of the game. And is paid a ton more. Not comparable.

that's why i said i hope that Franzen doesn't turn into Gomez. it was an extreme comparison to get the point across that Franzen has been less than good as of late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 458 Red Wings games, the Franz has 144 goals and 122 assists 266 points. 'nuff said.

In 475 Red Wings games, Cleary has 109 goals and 135 assists for 244 points. Does he get a free pass too, since his numbers are comparable? I'm sick and tired of Franzen getting a free pass because everyone wrongly assumes his numbers are great. They're good...not great. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom all have better numbers than Franzen, both playoff and regular season, and we expect each of them to bring an A game every night. If our stars don't get a pass for producing, neither should anybody else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 475 Red Wings games, Cleary has 109 goals and 135 assists for 244 points. Does he get a free pass too, since his numbers are comparable? I'm sick and tired of Franzen getting a free pass because everyone wrongly assumes his numbers are great. They're good...not great. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom all have better numbers than Franzen, both playoff and regular season, and we expect each of them to bring an A game every night. If our stars don't get a pass for producing, neither should anybody else.

I think you mis-understood my posting of Franzen's stats. I think they are horrible for the type of role he is supposed to be playing. Cleary's to add, for that matter. The only free pass Franzen should be getting is the ride to the airport to another team..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you mis-understood my posting of Franzen's stats. I think they are horrible for the type of role he is supposed to be playing. Cleary's to add, for that matter. The only free pass Franzen should be getting is the ride to the airport to another team..

I understand what you're trying to say but those stats you posted are a bit skewed. Remember, Franzen broke out as a legitimate sniper in March of '08. If we look at his stats since then they are actually pretty good. 253 games, 110 goals, 92 assists, for 202 points. That's roughly 0.8 PPG. Not to mention his playoff scoring (especially in '08). I guess the point here is that there's more to a hockey player than just stats. If in 50 years someone who never actually watched NHL hockey from our time compared Cleary's and Franzen's stats to this point they might think they were fairly similar players. Franzen might still be putting up decent numbers but he's far from the player he was in those '08 playoffs. Then again, this whole team is far from that team so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess the point here is that there's more to a hockey player than just stats.

I agree. But what exactly does Franzen bring to the table other than his stats? Hes big but doesn't use his size. He doesn't intimidate other players. He doesn't use it to hit players as hes usually coasting while they are skating. He doesn't use it to stick up for his teammates other than maybe a facewash in a scrum. Heck the most aggressive thing hes done is assault Patrick Kanes mouth-guard. He doesn't bring leadership intangibles to the team. You'd never see the recent team leaders (Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Zetterberg, Draper, etc) coast like he does as often as he does.

Its 100% obvious the contract and success he attained has gotten to his head. For how much he has progressed as a player since he came into the league he has regressed the same amount in where his in game work ethic was at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if he drops down to the 3rd or 4th line (which I really doubt will last longer then pre-game skate) who takes his place? Nobody else is really filling the net.

Give Helm a shot. His speed could open things up for the high end skilled guys. Homer was on a line with Dats and Z to do the exact same thing, but Helm can actually hang on to the puck and do more than deflections and screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you mis-understood my posting of Franzen's stats. I think they are horrible for the type of role he is supposed to be playing. Cleary's to add, for that matter. The only free pass Franzen should be getting is the ride to the airport to another team..

Yeah, I definitely misunderstood you. I'm so used to hearing the excuse "but he's great in the playoffs" that maybe I'm just a little too defensive now. Anyway, sorry to jump your case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand what you're trying to say but those stats you posted are a bit skewed. Remember, Franzen broke out as a legitimate sniper in March of '08. If we look at his stats since then they are actually pretty good. 253 games, 110 goals, 92 assists, for 202 points. That's roughly 0.8 PPG. Not to mention his playoff scoring (especially in '08). I guess the point here is that there's more to a hockey player than just stats. If in 50 years someone who never actually watched NHL hockey from our time compared Cleary's and Franzen's stats to this point they might think they were fairly similar players. Franzen might still be putting up decent numbers but he's far from the player he was in those '08 playoffs. Then again, this whole team is far from that team so...

Good point. 50 years from now everybody will remember that Franzen had comparable, yet slightly better numbers than Cleary did during the same time period, and worked about 1/3 as hard per shift. You're right, stats don't tell the whole story. And with Franzen the whole story is: talented yet opportunistic scorer with less than desirable work ethic, who posted moderately impressive numbers in spite of his own laziness, on the best/one of the best offensive teams in each year of his entire career. Such a write up puts him in the same category as other illustrious Red Wings. Notably, Keith Primeau and Robert Lang.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
would not only missed half the 2010 season due to rehab, but would also be a potential risk due to other injuries.

Um, Franzen played 27 games in 09-10. :blink: And he was a "one year rental"? Even using the phrase "rental" completely wrong, what does that have to do with anything? The only possible thing you can say about Franzen is that he had a couple playoffs where he performed better than Hossa, but what you're forgetting is that just because Hossa isn't scoring goals doesn't mean he isn't doing anything. He provides so much more beyond goal scoring that Franzen doesn't. Defense, speed, back checking, work ethic, play making. Hossa is twice the player Franzen will ever be.

Edited by Z and D for the C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um, Franzen played 27 games in 09-10. :blink: And he was a "one year rental"? Even using the phrase "rental" completely wrong, what does that have to do with anything? The only possible thing you can say about Franzen is that he had a couple playoffs where he performed better than Hossa, but what you're forgetting is that just because Hossa isn't scoring goals doesn't mean he isn't doing anything. He provides so much more beyond goal scoring that Franzen doesn't. Defense, speed, back checking, work ethic, play making. Hossa is twice the player Franzen will ever be.

I'm glad you missed the entire point of the whole "signing Hossa or Franzen" aspect of my post.

The entire point was because of his shoulder injury, he was GUARANTEED to miss half the season due to rehab. Franzen wasn't.

Hossa's "other attributes" did not do much to help Detroit in the post season. That is an issue despite the fact he was able to score 40 goals.

His best year happened to be alongside arguably the best center today. He hasn't replicated that performance, or even come close since.

Also, Franzen signed before the season ended, while Hossa took longer to negotiate a contract. Holland wasn't about to risk losing BOTH Franzen and Hossa by waiting on a deal for him.

Finally, the "one year rental" aspect, if you bothered to bring it into context, makes the point of Holland being loyal to players he drafted and included in the system. Hossa came by for one year, and Franzen worked his ass off to make it to the top line. Did anyone expect him to start floating? Absolutely not.

Point being, the entire point was that Hossa was not an easy choice, and if not for the Hudler debacle, Hossa AND Franzen could have been signed.

Funny how people forget that.

Edited by Doc Holliday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We signed Franzen early in 2009 if I recall correctly. Hossa signed with Chicago July 1st. It took one day for Chicago to deal with Hossa. I guarantee that we could have come to terms with Hossa had we not signed Franzen. And even if we didn't, we would have had plenty of time to sign Franzen if talks broke down with Hossa. There was zero chance of losing both. There was no reason to sign Franzen so early. It was a complete blunder by Holland, and I'm no Holland basher.

And yes, I forgot about his off season shoulder surgery. You're still not going to not sign elite talent just because they're going to miss a few months in the beginning of the season.

And we got to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals with an injured team with much less motivation than Pittsburgh after winning the cup the year before. Hossa, while maybe not scoring as many goals as expected had some key goals and played well. People need to stop blaming him. Our entire team broke down after winning the first two games of the finals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wings' Johan Franzen dropped to third line

Columbus, Ohio — Johan Franzen was dropped to the third line with Darren Helm and Drew Miller for Tuesday's game against the Columbus Blue Jackets.

"We had nothing going on, and usually that's what happens," Franzen said of the change.

The big winger hasn't gotten a point in four games and has three points (two goals, one assist) in his last eight games.

Franzen leads the Wings with 23 goals. He has 24 assists for a total of 47 points and is plus-21.

Coach Mike Babcock didn't single out Franzen but instead cast a net over an entire Wings team that hasn't won in its last three games (0-2-1).

"They key to that is we need everyone playing at their best," Babcock said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point being, the entire point was that Hossa was not an easy choice, and if not for the Hudler debacle, Hossa AND Franzen could have been signed.

Funny how people forget that.

i have forgotten the details, how did Hudler (I'm guessing the dispute the NHL had when he signed a contract with a KHL team) stop Hossa from being signed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have forgotten the details, how did Hudler (I'm guessing the dispute the NHL had when he signed a contract with a KHL team) stop Hossa from being signed?

Hudler was an RFA, so Holland spent the majority of the offseason trying to come to a deal with him.

Hudler walked, so Detroit had to pick up scraps to fill the cap space.

Franzen was not a blunder. The guy has performed very well for us so far pointwise, and is sporting a low 3.9 million dollar cap hit.

Hossa is paid more and it was not known if he would be able to pick up his play (3 goals and 15 points in 2010 isn't cutting it) from the 2009 post-season.

You can split hairs about how one deal was better than the other, but you have to understand Holland can't think of his roster in such near-sighted terms. Franzen had an affordable deal on the table and came to an agreement.

It's all hindsight, and the only thing people have against Franzen to date is his work ethic. The guy is producing at a normal clip and as the cap rises his salary looks cheaper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have forgotten the details, how did Hudler (I'm guessing the dispute the NHL had when he signed a contract with a KHL team) stop Hossa from being signed?

The fact that the Wings didn't bother going after Hossa because the committment was to Franzen and Hudler, while letting Sammy and Hossa walk. IF Holland had known that little fahker was going to Russia, he could have entertained the idea of keeping Hossa.

I like Hossa too and wish we could have kept him somehow. But lets not forget that Franzen was drafted as a checker, and only after the Canucks took Alex Edler before the Wings could. And he is currently tied with Hossa at 24 goals, while Hossa has 10 more assists becasue he plays with actual goal scorers, which Datsyuk and Zetterberg are surely not.

Edited by T.Low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now