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Nystrom hit on Letang


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#21 Nightfall

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:51 PM

Tough call for me as well. I have the benefit of watching it multiple times. Nystrom was in position to play the puck, and instead did play the body. You can tell by his body language that he was uninterested in playing the puck and was going for the hit. If it is a suspension, it should only be for 1-2 games.

If I was handing out the suspension, I would probably give him 1-2 games at the most. He made no attempt to play the puck, and yet made contact with the head. At the same time, he was crouched and Nystrom had no time to react.
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#22 Ram

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:51 PM

Watched the video about 10 times and it is very difficult to me to see how that hit is illegal.

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#23 Nightfall

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

Watched the video about 10 times and it is very difficult to me to see how that hit is illegal.

Contact to the head and the body language of Nystrom as he has no intention to play the puck and hit Letang are both factors to making the hit illegal.
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#24 Din758

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:05 PM

somebody tweeted that there will be no suspension, but fine or warning is still possible. cant remember the source, read it a couple hours ago.

edit: just found it, dreger tweeted it.

Edited by Din758, 01 March 2012 - 02:09 PM.

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#25 drwscc

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:07 PM

There is no requirement that he try and play the puck in that situation, so not sure how that makes it illegal. Letang had just had possession of the puck, so it wasn't a late hit. The ONLY thing that is a bit questionable is that Letang got grazed in the chin, but he ran into Nystrom's bicep, there was no elbow or anything there. Head was not principle point of contact, so there should be no Shanaban.
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#26 rrasco

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:12 PM

Nystrom has his elbows down and the puck is right there for either of them to play. If he thinks that Letang is going to get the puck before him, doesn't he have a right to blow up Letang from handling the puck, i.e. Good Old Time Hockey? Eddie Shore? Had Letang not tried his best (and failure) Datsyuk impersonation, and taken the body hit, he would've been body blasted into the glass, probably written off as a hard and clean check. After watching the vid, it does not appear to me that Nystrom targets the head in any deliberate fashion.


Targeting the head does not have to be deliberate or intentional, it can also be defined as reckless targeting.

IMO Letang put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to the hit. There was no reckless (or deliberate) targeting of the head, no elbow comes up, and he didn't leave his feet. Kronwall never makes an attempt to play the puck with his hits, he shouldn't have to. He's using his body to separate the puck from the player. Legal.

Edited by rrasco, 01 March 2012 - 02:13 PM.

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#27 Nightfall

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:15 PM

There is no requirement that he try and play the puck in that situation, so not sure how that makes it illegal. Letang had just had possession of the puck, so it wasn't a late hit. The ONLY thing that is a bit questionable is that Letang got grazed in the chin, but he ran into Nystrom's bicep, there was no elbow or anything there. Head was not principle point of contact, so there should be no Shanaban.

I do agree. I have been reffing USA Hockey too long. :)

Glad to hear there won't be a suspension.
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#28 kipwinger

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:33 PM

Ok, I'm confused. Doesn't part of the new enforcement deal with hitting guys when they're in vulnerable positions or no?

Note: Nevermind, the vulnerable position stuff was added to rule 48 on boarding. As he wasn't boarded this isn't an issue and the hit is ok.

Edited by kipwinger, 01 March 2012 - 02:37 PM.

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#29 rrasco

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:39 PM

Ok, I'm confused. Doesn't part of the new enforcement deal with hitting guys when they're in vulnerable positions or no?


Yeah, but not if the player puts themselves in a vulnerable position immediately prior. It's also not just free reign on players to put themselves in vulnerable positions and be protected.

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#30 redwingfan19

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

Brendan Shanahan ‏ @NHLShanahan Reply Retweet Favorite Open
...although it appears that the chin is grazed by the side of Nystrom's arm, the right chest and shoulder of Letang remain the PPOC. No SD.
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#31 rrasco

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:15 PM

Good call.

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#32 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:23 PM

It was a good hit. Just because Letang doesn't get up right away, doesn't mean it is susension worthy. Also, just because the head is grazed doesn't warrant a suspension either.
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#33 wingslogo19

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:39 PM

Right call on not giving Nystrom any games for that.
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#34 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:58 PM

Brendan Shanahan ‏ @NHLShanahan Reply Retweet Favorite Open
...although it appears that the chin is grazed by the side of Nystrom's arm, the right chest and shoulder of Letang remain the PPOC. No SD.

Makes sense.

Honestly watching it full speed it looked like a textbook headshot. Then on the replay you can see it's not and that Letang put himself in a vulnerable position. Just shows how hard it is for refs to catch this stuff in the game. Good on them for not tossing Nystrom for the hit.

#35 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:07 PM

Was he penalized at all on the play?
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#36 ilmickeyli

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

Was he penalized at all on the play?

2 min roughing
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#37 kipwinger

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:23 PM

2 min roughing


Roughing is the league's catch all penalty for "being to rough with the other boys".

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#38 F.Michael

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:50 PM

Brutal but clean hit. What pisses me off more than anything, is that in the new NHL when a player gets rocked, the hitter is immediately sought after and play is stopped. It drives me absolutely crazy! What the hell happened to "remember" the hit and lay one back on him later on?

It's to the point where I'd almost like to see a penalty called for the person that causes the stoppage for those reasons within 10 seconds of a hit.


This one I'll kind of give a pass on because at full speed it was hard to tell if it was a headshot or exactly what happened.

But overall I agree. It's gotten ridiculous. I've heard people claim that's the way it's always been, but it goes against my memories of watching hockey since the early 80s.

Clean hard hits are a part of the game. Having fights after every big hit is yet another way to try to take hitting out of the game, this time by the players themselves.

I think the game has gotten so fast that many players on the ice may not see what actually took place, and when in doubt, or if they feel a teammate was taken advantage of it's the mentality of - "shoot 1st and ask questions later".

My memory is far from perfect, but what I do recall is that certain players like Gretzky, and our very own Stevie Y were deemed "untouchable", and if any opponent got a little too rough with them - well here's Mr. Probert, or Mr. McSorley...Heck - I can remember Gallant beating the snot outta Chelios back in the old Chicago Stadium because Cheli roughed up a very young guy by the name of Sergei Fedorov.

In those days I think intimidation played more of a role than it does in todays game, and when a teammate takes exception in todays game - it gets alot more attention.

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#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

I think the game has gotten so fast that many players on the ice may not see what actually took place, and when in doubt, or if they feel a teammate was taken advantage of it's the mentality of - "shoot 1st and ask questions later".

My memory is far from perfect, but what I do recall is that certain players like Gretzky, and our very own Stevie Y were deemed "untouchable", and if any opponent got a little too rough with them - well here's Mr. Probert, or Mr. McSorley...Heck - I can remember Gallant beating the snot outta Chelios back in the old Chicago Stadium because Cheli roughed up a very young guy by the name of Sergei Fedorov.

In those days I think intimidation played more of a role than it does in todays game, and when a teammate takes exception in todays game - it gets alot more attention.

That's how I remember it too.

There were the stars that if you took a run at, you'd likely be answering to someone like Probie or Semenko.

But now it's like every good hard hit results in teammates mugging the guy who threw the hit. I looked back at some old hockey vids on youtube, and there were a lot of huge hits--some of them even looked dirty--and the play kept going. Obviously that's a small sample, but it confirmed how I remembered it.

Big hits would make the games chippier overall. But they didn't immediately result in having to drop the gloves and fight just because you checked someone, like so often happens now.

#40 Jaymister

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:26 PM

It didn't look to me like he targeted the head, rather Letang leaning forward caused the collision with the head.
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