Cleary, Bertuzzi, Hudler and Franzen

[kipwinger 8,524]

2007-08 Detroit Red Wings NHL 72 27

2008-09 Detroit Red Wings NHL 71 34

2009-10 Detroit Red Wings NHL 27 10

2010-11 Detroit Red Wings NHL 76 28

2011-12 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 26

as i said if he plays a full schedule hes a 30 goal guy

Very few "30 goal guys" play all 82 games every year. Rick Nash is a 30 goal guy and he's only played a full season once. Here's a link to what a 30 goal guy looks like. Certainly not Franzen, I don't care how many games he plays. http://espn.go.com/n.../1569/rick-nash

Correction, Nash has never played a full season and yet averages over 30 a season. That's a 30 goal guy. Last I knew we didn't determine a guy's worth by his projected stats.

Edited March 15, 2012 by kipwinger

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I was referring to per game stats, not total stats. More games are bound to equal more points, but would you really say that we should be expecting one-dimensional play with so-so stats from a guy we have signed for 11 years? As I said, he is bringing less and less beyond his scoring, and his scoring is not to par. The thought in 2009 when they signed him for 11 years was that he was trending up, not down. Based on his per game stats, everyone rightfully expected 40 goals and 68 points through 82 games. Compare this season and last to his contract year, its a pretty sharp decline statistically, which is the basis for most folks defense of him. Add in that he floats incessantly and works less every night while climbing on the back of Datsyuk to do all the heavy lifting. He is a passenger and hasn't stepped up jack with his team down.

Why would you expect 40 goals out of a forward who only managed 34 on a stacked offensive roster?

That's crap, and with the way offensively the league has been trending downwards you shouldn't expect that of him anyway. Marian Hossa is a PERENIALL 40 goal scorer and isn't even at 30 yet. And before you get all huffy, I'm not comparing the two. Just saying that goal scoring as a whole is down.

And no, I wouldn't expect a franchise goal-scorer to be paid $4mil/season, I would expect him to be signed to a franchised-contract of say, 11 years, and I'd expect him to be getting paid around $5.25mil/season on top of such ludicrous job security, which he is. Folks need to quit looking at the cap-hit as a wash right now, because he is already nearing the edge of his usefulness at that price, and I can't imagine he'll be able sustain this little plateau for much longer given the his continual decline since signing his contract.

It annoys me when people talk about salary. How is that relevant to team success again? Ilitch owns the 4th most valuable franchise in the NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE (behind Toronto, Montreal, and New York) and you are telling me that him slightly overpaying on salary is going to hurt him financially? Jokes.

Lets say he is playing to his cap-hit. Right now he is getting paid $5.25mil/season now and playing like a $4mil/season. The fun part? 4 years from now when his play has continued to decline, same story $5mil/season and a $4mil/season cap-hit. And in 6 years when his pay finally starts to dip, still a $4mil/season cap-hit.

You say "continue to decline" as if he has declined. He is paid to score. And he is scoring. Babcock chooses not to use him on the PK (he was even with Hossa in 09 in PK time on his 34 goal run) so I'm not sure how he can do much about that.

The guy getting worse doesn't bode well. His statistics are not up to par with a player granted the contract he was, and yet they are the only defensible position for most. Watch the games and its an entirely different story, moving from decently mediocre to abysmal. And above all else, his attitude is s*** when he can't be bothered to get up for games when his team is down and dropping quickly in the standings.

Tell me when he stops playing up to his contract, and when the cap is 5-10 million higher than it is now. Then you can talk about how overpaid the guy is.