79 replies to this topic

[bentcobra]

what upsets me most about huds, is that his slowness causes him to cheat constantly. He is always hooking and getting penalties in the offensive zone, I think like three the last two games. He goes into the corners out of position a lot and ends up trying to hook a guy that beat him to the puck, because he is not quick enough getting deep in the zone. I would hardly call this whining, I mean what the hell else are we supposed to talk about on this forum day in and day out? Conversations dealing with objective critique are interesting. Especially after a game where we only scored one goal. A coach of any team would be stupid to take a loss and not look at what went wrong? We are all back seat coaches here anyways If a good portion of your loses are usually attributed to the same mistakes or the same players creating those mistakes, then it is a very positive endeavor to discuss what parts of our team we would like to see improve. Why not? Because some people cannot view critique from and objective standpoint? It sounds like such an overly emotional response to call every discussion that is in anyway critical whining? That is probably the worst thing about this board, that every thread that asks critical questions automatically sees certain elements take offense and start plugging their ears and accusing everyone of whining and being ungrateful and unpatriotic towards our holy redwings.

[arag]

according to capgeek, we have Cleary at 2.8 through next year. I think he's done after that. Cleary is slipping back into laziness. DAN CLEARY IS LAZY AND HE SUCKS ™

Bert has 2 more years then he's probably retired.

Franzen is leading our team in goals. Rightly or wrongly, he's doing what he's paid for, for 3 and change per year until 2020.

I see that Zetterberg has REALLY shown up the last couple games. Maybe put him with Helm and Miller, those guys seem to know what puckwork is about...IT JUST MIGHT BE CRAZY ENOUGH TO WORK!

Where the hell is Ericsson lately? how about Kindl? hasn't done much since the start of the season.

Hudler WAS 2nd in goals (dunno if he still is) but goddamn kid. USE SOME OF THAT UFC GOODNESS. ILLITCH DIDN'T PULL THAT MOB CONNECTION FOR NOTHING!

One of the first things you learn as a fighter like jiu-jitsu, judo, and wrestling is how to fall and not break your neck or the head. That is what Hudler learned training UFC, falling and not getting hurt. That is what Hudler is going to do in post season-Fall from players just skating by him.

[hoogs]

This shows how much Datsyuk makes Bert look good.  When Bert is alone he makes stupid plays, tries to do too much and takes stupid penalties.  With Datsyuk he has more space and can actually do something.

[stinky fish taco]

great thread.

[13dangledangle]

You might be right.

None of these guys are in their 20's exactly, but the Wings are too connected to older players to ever consider pursuing other options.

I know Franzen has a big contract and they just re-signed Bertuzzi. I don't know what Cleary's status is, but I wouldn't mind cutting ties with him after this season.

I love and hate this about the Wings, we just seem to hold on way to long. I would bump Clears for Tatar or Nyquist in heartbeat...



*EDIT: Mule, Bert and Huds are all streaky, they´ll get their chance to show why they are here in the playoffs.

Edited by 13dangledangle, 05 March 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[GMRwings1983]

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW.

His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all.

And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

[Red Reign]

Franzen leads the team in goals and Bert has been arguably one of the harder working players this season. Neither of them are my "favorite" players, but I enjoy having them on the team.

Hudler is stepping up his game, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if the Holland decided to put him on the trading block after this season. He is a decent player, but I'm not sure if he justifies his pricetag. Still, I like that he has been putting in more effort this season.

Cleary can go - he is one of those guys that I tend to forget is even on the team. If we cut him loose after this season, it's fine by me.

That said, I would much rather get rid of Stuart and Ericsson than any of the guys mentioned above.

[kylee]

Hudler is a free agent after this season. I'm not saying we should let him walk regardless but we should see what else is out there.

[Doc Holliday]

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW.

His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all.

And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Hudler is a free agent after this season. I'm not saying we should let him walk regardless but we should see what else is out there.

How about Niklas Hagman? 20 points in 56 games (8 with Calgary) on a mediocre Anaheim team. He won't command as much as Hudler probably will, and we'll likely get around the same production.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 05 March 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[b.shanafan14]

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid.

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Franzen's cap hit might be $3.95m but he is getting paid $5.25m, and given the security he was given with such a long-term contract, its fair to argue that he should be playing like closer to $6.0m. He got on the team by playing tough, physical, and responsible while going to the hard areas. He's been doing less and less of that since signing the contract. The production rates are down, but he has also made himself tremendously one-dimensional.

Third year of an ELEVEN year front-loaded contract and he is already playing down to the cap hit. He better stay pretty damn consistent, otherwise I wonder how he'll be playing by the time he is actually making $3.95m (which will be in 5 years, for those wondering). Like GMRwings said, what happens when he plays uninterested and "bored" during the regular season (when everyone else is required to put in the effort) and he gets to playoffs and either doesn't perform, or like last year, gets injured? What are the Wings paying for then?

[NBCnothingbutcrosby]

I've been flamed on this board the past 2 years for seeing how ineffective Cleary has been. Now others are starting to see it; I must say, I do feel a sense of sweet vindication.
He needs to go after this season, for the salary he makes, we could get younger, faster, and more effective. He's a 4th line grinder at best now, but makes money of a 2nd liner. I believe his contract is up this year? Please dear god, Holland do NOT re-sign him!!!

[LeftWinger]

This team could do without any of all 4 of them... I like Cleary with Helm, but Helm makes anyone look good. I could have done without Bertuzzi next season (and the next) but as long as he plays with Datsyuk, he is effective enough....as much as I hate Hudler, I am happy with his resurgence this year, which means he will ask for $5M+ next year as a UFA, I hope Holland lets him walk. If he wants to re-sign for $3M or less, then I have no issues. Franzen, hmmmmm.....leading the team in goals (barely) but is falling fast down the points list. I for one cant stand the people that defend him for his playoff year a couple ago. He is SO inconsistent it hurts. He scores his goals all before March and then struggles to get back. I agree that if he doesn't have another magical playoff at a point per game, he should seriously be shopped or bought out. Ya, his cap hit is not too bad, but he is not earning his $4M. Points are one thing, work ethic and heart are another, he has none of that and like I said is fading on the point scale. But he is what he is...lazy. I am done with him.

If they lost all four, I would not hesitate a fart....

[kipwinger]

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid.

well I should hope not, considering he's never scored 40 goals and only scored 30+ once.

[GoWings1905]

I've been flamed on this board the past 2 years for seeing how ineffective Cleary has been. Now others are starting to see it; I must say, I do feel a sense of sweet vindication.
He needs to go after this season, for the salary he makes, we could get younger, faster, and more effective. He's a 4th line grinder at best now, but makes money of a 2nd liner. I believe his contract is up this year? Please dear god, Holland do NOT re-sign him!!!

I can't imagine why you were getting flamed for calling Cleary ineffective in a year he scored 26 goals.

[Doc Holliday]

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Franzen's cap hit might be $3.95m but he is getting paid $5.25m, and given the security he was given with such a long-term contract, its fair to argue that he should be playing like closer to $6.0m. He got on the team by playing tough, physical, and responsible while going to the hard areas. He's been doing less and less of that since signing the contract. The production rates are down, but he has also made himself tremendously one-dimensional.

Third year of an ELEVEN year front-loaded contract and he is already playing down to the cap hit. He better stay pretty damn consistent, otherwise I wonder how he'll be playing by the time he is actually making $3.95m (which will be in 5 years, for those wondering). Like GMRwings said, what happens when he plays uninterested and "bored" during the regular season (when everyone else is required to put in the effort) and he gets to playoffs and either doesn't perform, or like last year, gets injured? What are the Wings paying for then?

You can whine when he stops playing up to his contract.

As of right now, it is a good value contract, and with the cap continuing to steadily rise, it will continue to be less and less of a percentage of the cap hit.

When Ville Leino is getting paid $4.5 million to score 6 goals and Rick Nash is being paid almost 8 million for the same goals as Franzen at this point, I would think we should be perfectly okay with how the Franzen contract has played out so far.

And I don't really care about regular salary. Detroit is the second most valuable team in the U.S. (behind the Rangers), so whether they take a small bath on overpaying in salary for their leading goal scorer, I can live with that.

[LeftWinger]

You can whine when he stops playing up to his contract.

As of right now, it is a good value contract, and with the cap continuing to steadily rise, it will continue to be less and less of a percentage of the cap hit.

When Ville Leino is getting paid $4.5 million to score 6 goals and Rick Nash is being paid almost 8 million for the same goals as Franzen at this point, I would think we should be perfectly okay with how the Franzen contract has played out so far.

And I don't really care about regular salary. Detroit is the second most valuable team in the U.S. (behind the Rangers), so whether they take a small bath on overpaying in salary for their leading goal scorer, I can live with that.

on the other side of the ball sack, Hudler, Helm, Miller and Filppula are make LESS than Franzen and are out performing him on a regular basis. Filppula is way more valuable to this team than Franzen...so is Helm and Abdelkader, so you can argue his salary both ways. He is overpaid considering for his lack of consistency IMO. He takes a raincheck on most nights. If he would play 100% for 82 games? He'd be making $8M somewhere...

[Doc Holliday]

on the other side of the ball sack, Hudler, Helm, Miller and Filppula are make LESS than Franzen and are out performing him on a regular basis. Filppula is way more valuable to this team than Franzen...so is Helm and Abdelkader, so you can argue his salary both ways. He is overpaid considering for his lack of consistency IMO. He takes a raincheck on most nights. If he would play 100% for 82 games? He'd be making $8M somewhere...

Franzen's best year was 34 goals on a stacked Wings team when he had much more effort. He would not command 8 million regardless of effort.

Second, he is a better player than both Miller and Hudler on a regular basis, and his production has reflected that.

Filpulla has played above and beyond his contract. So what?

Also, Helm and Abdelkader aren't top 6 players, and likely never will be. Your ridiculous view on Franzen clouds the fact he is paid well for his production.

[NBCnothingbutcrosby]

I can't imagine why you were getting flamed for calling Cleary ineffective in a year he scored 26 goals.

At first it had to do with his inability to stay on the ice. Now it seems as though his injuries have caught up to him (like I said they would sooner than later). If people by now haven't seen that the often injured, slower, and ineffective Cleary shouldn't be on this team. Then I don't know what to say. I've said this many times, that he is way overpaid for what he brings to the team now. He gets a lot of ice time and does nothing with it, give Helm that much and I wonder what would happen.

[Crymson]

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW.

His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all.

And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

Uh oh. He risks disappointing GMR if he doesn't perform well in the playoffs. And we all know what that will mean for him*

That said, he justifies the $4m spent on him. It's not as if he's being paid top dollar. He's an adequate scorer.

*Absolutely nothing

Edited by Crymson, 06 March 2012 - 02:23 AM.