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Cleary, Bertuzzi, Hudler and Franzen


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#41 Esquire

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

Bottom line: On a team with the world's best player (Datsyuk) and the worlds' hardest working player (Helm), the rest of the team is going to look like s*** unless they're putting up career best numbers.

Everyone's got a role to play, and by looking at the standings, they're playing it pretty well. Sure, some guys might not be putting up career numbers, but I can't think of a year that every single player on a team justified their salary/cap hit.*

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*Edit: Of course, an argument can always be made for a players salary by winning the Cup I suppose.

Edited by Esquire, 06 March 2012 - 08:39 AM.

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#42 Vladifan

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:14 AM

Don't like Hudler much anymore. He should be shooting more than passing and floating. Franzen IS lazy. He may have the most goals (?), but the point is, he could do more and play harder. He has the talent for it. I like Bert but he plays with one hand more than two (and just kind of pokes at the puck too often) and doesn't drive down the ice and/or toward the net often enough. As for Cleary, I don't agree with seemingly lots of you. I think for whatever reason he's snake-bit, as Mickey might say. He plays hard, drives the net, screens, hits on the boards and fights for the puck. But his timing just seems way off. It shows the most when he shoots at the net. Methinks if anything, he's trying too hard. Then again, I've always liked him. :cool:

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#43 ben_usmc

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:41 AM

Cleary has been damn near worthless the last 2 years. He just skates into the zone and then loses the puck in the corner, or takes a shot from below the face off circle, making any rush pointless. Mule is lazy and it's really annoying, but like everyone else has said, depending on his playoffs will mold more defining opinion. Bert I think looks decent, wish it was a 1 year contract instead of 2, but he's alright. I'm not sure all the Hudler hate, he looks like he is always working his ass off, but physically gets owned, and takes bad penalties, I just don't think it's for a lack of effort.
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#44 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

Uh oh. He risks disappointing GMR if he doesn't perform well in the playoffs. And we all know what that will mean for him*

That said, he justifies the $4m spent on him. It's not as if he's being paid top dollar. He's an adequate scorer.

*Absolutely nothing


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#45 Crymson

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

Cleary has been damn near worthless the last 2 years. He just skates into the zone and then loses the puck in the corner, or takes a shot from below the face off circle, making any rush pointless. Mule is lazy and it's really annoying, but like everyone else has said, depending on his playoffs will mold more defining opinion. Bert I think looks decent, wish it was a 1 year contract instead of 2, but he's alright. I'm not sure all the Hudler hate, he looks like he is always working his ass off, but physically gets owned, and takes bad penalties, I just don't think it's for a lack of effort.


Last season, Cleary scored 26 goals whilst providing his usual hardworking, physical style of play plus good defensive play both at even strength and on the PK. If that qualifies as "damn near worthless" to you, then I'm not sure what planet you're living on.

Edited by Crymson, 06 March 2012 - 12:52 PM.


#46 CopenhagenWing

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:07 PM

Cleary's been playing on a bum knee for at least half this season. Just sayin'...
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#47 stinky fish taco

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:11 PM

Cleary's been a bum this season. Just sayin'...

there you go. a few too many words in your original post.

Helm is a perennial Selke candidate

LOL

#48 kipwinger

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:15 PM

there you go. a few too many words in your original post.


I don't know if it's all just a hilarious game for you or whatever, but your constant cynicism and nay saying is hilarious. It's a strange dynamic in which your almost endless negativity actually turns out to be a positive...at least for me. Keep up the good (or bad) work, as this board would surely be a little too dull without you.

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Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#49 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:16 PM

My opinion has already been stated a good amount on the play of Cleary and Franzen, and I would love to trade both. However, Bertuzzi is doing his job quite well and it earned him a 2 year contract extension...he's been doing good filling his role. Hudler...this is really the first time anyone's really ragged on him this year. He's putting up pretty decent stats and he's been hustling his midget ass twice as hard as Franzen, so why the question about Happy Hudler? He will undoubtedly be re-signed in the off season unless for some reason we get Parise and the Wings do the right thing and bring Nyquist and possibly Tatar up the Wings may be short roster spots, but will win the cup.

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#50 Crymson

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:58 PM

Hudler can't finish.

#51 sureWhyNot

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

Bertuzzi is a +21 and has 30 points while missing a handful of games. He plays night in and night out against other teams top lines. I know he has the luxury of playing aside Datsyuk but tht said I couldn't be happier with Big Bert's play. I am very happy he signe a 2 year deal.

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#52 F.Michael

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:21 PM

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid. :ph34r:

What gets me is that he's getting paid quite well for playing on the bottom 6.

$5 million plus per season up until the 2015/2016 season...At least it's only a cap hit of $3.9 million <_<

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#53 Crymson

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:04 PM

What gets me is that he's getting paid quite well for playing on the bottom 6.

$5 million plus per season up until the 2015/2016 season...At least it's only a cap hit of $3.9 million <_<


Cap hit is more or less what matters. And 30 goals in the regular season plus excellent playoff performance is worth $4m.

#54 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

Cleary's been playing on a bum knee for at least half this season. Just sayin'...

Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything really apart from the fact that he hasn't played a whole season nigh on since Frankie Goes To Hollywood were in the charts. He's a work horse for someone who constantly gets knocked on his can and knows that it's going to happen again as soon as he's back on the ice. Dats doesn't get knocked much but core strength like that doesn't come with a few months training. He's worked at that for years, something unfortunately Cleary doesn't have the time or the fresh body to do. Also Bert plays the game smart like a future coach. I like smart. Franzen pisses me off from time to time but his pros outweigh the cons for me. Hudler is having a good season on the back of a few shaky years (personally and professionally).

I mean jeez, we're not a gung-ho score-at-all-costs team. We're defensively strong and build around that. It's no mystery that we prefer our forwards to play D and our D to play sensible and smart. And that we invest time into a goaltender who was over-ripe when coming into the NHL for the purposes of having him play a lot of hockey and learn from consistent playing time. I couldn't care really that Franzen isn't a 50 goal scorer. As long as he gets us the one that wins (which he's been doing all year).

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#55 Doc Holliday

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:18 PM

What gets me is that he's getting paid quite well for playing on the bottom 6.

$5 million plus per season up until the 2015/2016 season...At least it's only a cap hit of $3.9 million <_<


He must be the best bottom-sixer in the league (if you honestly want to call him that) considering his point and goal totals. :hehe:

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#56 F.Michael

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:00 AM

Cap hit is more or less what matters. And 30 goals in the regular season plus excellent playoff performance is worth $4m.

His 5 goals in 1 playoff game was spectacular, but we need him to produce in other playoff games a s well...Since the new year Franzen has been AWOL on many nights...I hope he picks it up soon, and carries that momentum into the playoffs.

Edited by F.Michael, 08 March 2012 - 09:18 AM.


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#57 F.Michael

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:05 AM

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Franzen's cap hit might be $3.95m but he is getting paid $5.25m, and given the security he was given with such a long-term contract, its fair to argue that he should be playing like closer to $6.0m. He got on the team by playing tough, physical, and responsible while going to the hard areas. He's been doing less and less of that since signing the contract. The production rates are down, but he has also made himself tremendously one-dimensional.

Third year of an ELEVEN year front-loaded contract and he is already playing down to the cap hit. He better stay pretty damn consistent, otherwise I wonder how he'll be playing by the time he is actually making $3.95m (which will be in 5 years, for those wondering). Like GMRwings said, what happens when he plays uninterested and "bored" during the regular season (when everyone else is required to put in the effort) and he gets to playoffs and either doesn't perform, or like last year, gets injured? What are the Wings paying for then?

Not sure how I missed your post, but spot on :thumbup:

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#58 clutchngrab

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:13 AM

Those of you expecting perfection and/or constant dominance on the part of the Wings should alter your expectations to a more realistic level.


Well you are right about expectations. However a cup winning team has to have luck, health, hunger, goaltending, talent and a good mix of youth and vets to balance all that. Think about the wings cup teams - or any other cup winning teams of recent years. Ask yourself if the 2012 wings are that type of team? I would say close, but no cigar. You can't have passengers and you need everyone playing to their potential. Of these aforementioned players who makes the cut?
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#59 clutchngrab

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:22 AM

Cap hit is more or less what matters. And 30 goals in the regular season plus excellent playoff performance is worth $4m.


What's frustrating is that this guy has all the tools in the world to be an elite forward yet he doesn't have the heart or psyche to be that forward. It's almost like he took less money to remain a wing, float around and underachieve. Maybe I have an unrealistic assessment of his abilities (ala Dustin Penner's amazing playoff run?), but I think not.
Are you kidding? Block you? And miss watching you stumble around the forum looking for an argument like a dog sniffing butts? It would be like turning off a bad episode of Jerry Springer. You know you shouldn't be watching, but you just... can't... help... it...

#60 clutchngrab

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:42 AM

This shows how much Datsyuk makes Bert look good. When Bert is alone he makes stupid plays, tries to do too much and takes stupid penalties. With Datsyuk he has more space and can actually do something.


What burns my ass is here we have one of the top players in the game in his prime and the best Holland can do is surround him with Bert and Franzen. Really? This is like a crime against humanity. Imagine Dats with Perry, Kessel or Gaborik - or even Kovalchuk - it boggles the mind how Holland has wasted the top 2 or 3 forwards in the game.
Are you kidding? Block you? And miss watching you stumble around the forum looking for an argument like a dog sniffing butts? It would be like turning off a bad episode of Jerry Springer. You know you shouldn't be watching, but you just... can't... help... it...





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