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#1 Red Crazy

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:02 AM

Is anyone else sick of reading Babcock's post game comments? " I thought we were good for 2 min in the second, we didn't start on time, they played good, we only had one line playing" etc. I wish that he would call this team out or at least those who are simply collecting cheques and not giving a crap. Forget the PP. This team does not compete on a nightly basis and that is becoming a huge problem. Have you ever watched a Wings game and had a pretty good idea what the outcome will be 5 min in? Mike Babcock is a great coach but he needs to inspire this team. Say what you want about Ken Hitchcock but the Blues are playing inspired hockey right now and that is a lot to do with coaching. Getting the boys all back healthy will be a big help but this team has been lacking drive all season. So I think its the coaches job to turn this around now or face a very early playoff exit.

#2 RedWingsExpert1988

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:11 AM

I dont even care that the wings are losing because every team loses games but the problem now is dropping too far behind in the standings. I think st. louis will continue their hot streak going into the playoffs and are not going to lose many games unless they get injured. Detroit this year is NOT a good road team and not having home ice advantage, even with a healthy team, could mean trouble. Lets just hope we don't drop to 5th place and have to start the playoffs in nashville with no home ice advantage.

So yes, I think babcock should call his team out to wake them up because we can not afford to lose too many more games heading into the playoffs.

#3 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

This teams doesn't need a call out...it needs to get healthy. Everything else will fall into place once that happens.
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"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#4 korrowan

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:00 AM

This teams doesn't need a call out...it needs to get healthy. Everything else will fall into place once that happens.


Yep and someone will go down in the playoffs and they will exit that round. A team built like that is a team built to lose when it matters. A team does not give up 4 SHGs in 6 games because Dats and Lids are missing. A team does not forget how to play defense because Lids is hurt. There are bigger problems with this team than injuries.

#5 NvrFrgtRussian5

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

Yep and someone will go down in the playoffs and they will exit that round. A team built like that is a team built to lose when it matters. A team does not give up 4 SHGs in 6 games because Dats and Lids are missing. A team does not forget how to play defense because Lids is hurt. There are bigger problems with this team than injuries.


this.

We cannot continue with this injury blaming BS. It is not helping matters but it is not the sole reason we have issues. The issues have been there before the injuries. This team just lacks urgency and consistency much of the time.

Babcock needs to find a way to light a fire. Franzen can't hit the broadside of a barn if it was 6 inches in front of him, Happy turn-over Hudler makes better tape to tape passes to the opponent.

Lids and Dats can't take the entire team on their shoulders. I really believe this is Lids final year. He is currently in the longest injury stint of his career and the team is struggling in almost all aspects.

Edited by NvrFrgtRussian5, 14 March 2012 - 09:11 AM.


#6 MDtizzle

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:19 AM

This teams doesn't need a call out...it needs to get healthy. Everything else will fall into place once that happens.

No chance this is true, they're lucky to be where they are now thanks to jimmy and an insane home streak

#7 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:27 AM

Yep and someone will go down in the playoffs and they will exit that round. A team built like that is a team built to lose when it matters. A team does not give up 4 SHGs in 6 games because Dats and Lids are missing. A team does not forget how to play defense because Lids is hurt. There are bigger problems with this team than injuries.

The Wings have had 7 starters (most top-tier) out of the lineup the past few weeks. This isn't a matter of the team relying solely on two players (even though they are two of the best in world, so it should justify a fair amount of recent sloppy play).

The Wings defense is ravaged and you've got guys playing the point on the PP that have no business there, yet you're surprised they all of a sudden are giving up shorty's? It can't be more obvious than the obvious.

The biggest problem/obstacle for this team once they've gotten healthy is putting up their share of wins on the road. They're not going to go between 8-0 and 16-0 at home in the playoffs so that should be the focus down the stretch. This team with all its injuries is playing like they should, mediocre. The bright side of things is that in the absence of our injured, the guys we needed to step up, without question have.

No chance this is true, they're lucky to be where they are now thanks to jimmy and an insane home streak

Yeah, you're right....those 20 guys in front of him, solid play and health had nothing to do with their record.

Please!
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"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#8 hudler sucks

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:29 AM

The Wings defense is ravaged and you've got guys playing the point on the PP that have no business there, yet you're surprised they all of a sudden are giving up shorty's? It can't be more obvious than the obvious.

The only regular on the powerplay point that is out is Lidstrom. Kronwall, White, and Hudler all got regular time there. Quincey has played the point a lot before he got here, and Smith is only being thrown in because Hudler is just that bad.

Let's not make excuses for just how incredibly bad this powerplay has been.

#9 b.shanafan14

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:33 AM

Yep and someone will go down in the playoffs and they will exit that round. A team built like that is a team built to lose when it matters. A team does not give up 4 SHGs in 6 games because Dats and Lids are missing. A team does not forget how to play defense because Lids is hurt. There are bigger problems with this team than injuries.



this.

We cannot continue with this injury blaming BS. It is not helping matters but it is not the sole reason we have issues. The issues have been there before the injuries. This team just lacks urgency and consistency much of the time.

Babcock needs to find a way to light a fire. Franzen can't hit the broadside of a barn if it was 6 inches in front of him, Happy turn-over Hudler makes better tape to tape passes to the opponent.

Lids and Dats can't take the entire team on their shoulders. I really believe this is Lids final year. He is currently in the longest injury stint of his career and the team is struggling in almost all aspects.


Not to be negative, but this and this.

According to FSD's stats department, the Wings powerplay has been dead last in the NHL over the last 40 games. Injuries are part of the problem, but look at the players making the majority of the costly mistakes and breaking the flow; it ain't the call-ups, its the regulars. I have never seen so many shorthanded goals against, and 4 in 6 games!? That's absurd. Used to be getting a powerplay was an advantage.

I'm sure things are different in the locker room, and Babcock is not the type of coach to call out players in the media, but the perception is zero-accountability for players who are slacking. "One line playing" is an understatement, since that line is all Filppula and Zetterberg, with Hudler ruining 10 times as many good plays as the ones he finally pots like he did last night. Franzen, who is supposed to be Mr. Clutch, Mr. "He'll play when the chips are down". Well the chips are down with a team among the worst on the road on the verge of losing home ice. He has been a floating pansy before and during the absence of Datsyuk, so much so that Babcock finally reunited Helm-Abdelkader-Miller, finding it better to have your energy line intact instead of relocating hustle to pick up one lazy Mule. If you can't get up for these games when your team needs you, you are an empty sweater.

4 short-handed goals in 6 games? That HAS to be a Wings record. Tear some ass, Babcock.

#10 Frozen-Man

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:40 AM

Is anyone else sick of reading Babcock's post game comments? " I thought we were good for 2 min in the second, we didn't start on time, they played good, we only had one line playing" etc. I wish that he would call this team out or at least those who are simply collecting cheques and not giving a crap. Forget the PP. This team does not compete on a nightly basis and that is becoming a huge problem. Have you ever watched a Wings game and had a pretty good idea what the outcome will be 5 min in? Mike Babcock is a great coach but he needs to inspire this team. Say what you want about Ken Hitchcock but the Blues are playing inspired hockey right now and that is a lot to do with coaching. Getting the boys all back healthy will be a big help but this team has been lacking drive all season. So I think its the coaches job to turn this around now or face a very early playoff exit.


I think the first ones called out should be Dats, Lids, Howard, Bert, Big Rig, and Kindl. To me that is the biggest problem here. The Wings are without their best player (and arguably the best player in the game), Their best defender (and one of the best ever), until last night their goaltender who has been incredible for them this year (and by his own admission is not up to game speed yet due to back to back injuries), and HALF of their defense. That takes a toll on a team, both mentally and physically. Additionally, re: Hitchcock v. Babcock there is a huge difference between how a coach can inspire a team that he has only coached for 58 games, the team is currently overachieving and has only made the playoffs once in the last seven years and what Babs can do with a team he has coached for 7 years, is currently decimated by injuries, and who continually make and advance in the playoffs. Apples and oranges.


I dont even care that the wings are losing because every team loses games but the problem now is dropping too far behind in the standings. I think st. louis will continue their hot streak going into the playoffs and are not going to lose many games unless they get injured. Detroit this year is NOT a good road team and not having home ice advantage, even with a healthy team, could mean trouble. Lets just hope we don't drop to 5th place and have to start the playoffs in nashville with no home ice advantage.

So yes, I think babcock should call his team out to wake them up because we can not afford to lose too many more games heading into the playoffs.


Looking at the current standings I don't know that the easier road wouldn't be 4th against Nashville rather than 1st against the Sharks.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


#11 Frozen-Man

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:47 AM

The only regular on the powerplay point that is out is Lidstrom. Kronwall, White, and Hudler all got regular time there. Quincey has played the point a lot before he got here, and Smith is only being thrown in because Hudler is just that bad.

Let's not make excuses for just how incredibly bad this powerplay has been.



His point was about giving up the short handed goals. I'm pretty sure it was Smith that lost the puck that led to the shorty last night. The guys has 10 NHL games under his belt. It happens. I think that was the point.

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#12 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

The only regular on the powerplay point that is out is Lidstrom. Kronwall, White, and Hudler all got regular time there. Quincey has played the point a lot before he got here, and Smith is only being thrown in because Hudler is just that bad.

Let's not make excuses for just how incredibly bad this powerplay has been.

No one's making excuses for how poor the powerplay has been. However, Hudler was taken away because of injuries up front coupled with the fact that Q was brought in.

Most importantly, you're not looking at everything when you make your claims. First and foremost, Bab's has been forced to play guys that are typically nowhere near a PP. On top of that, just because the defense has been mostly (not fully, btw) the same doesn't mean the guys up front aren't causing the headaches. Last night was a perfect example of that. When your normal guys up front are out and guys that aren't very capable are thrown into the mix mistakes happen far more often than you're letting on. Check any team in the NHL that has dealt with the same injury situation in their top-6 and you'll see a pattern.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#13 wingslogo19

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

I think a huge problem and I'm sure lots of people will agree is that we're not scoring on the PP and giving up SH goals like no tomorrow.
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#14 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

His point was about giving up the short handed goals. I'm pretty sure it was Smith that lost the puck that led to the shorty last night. The guys has 10 NHL games under his belt. It happens. I think that was the point.

:siren:
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#15 b.shanafan14

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

The Wings have had 7 starters (most top-tier) out of the lineup the past few weeks. This isn't a matter of the team relying solely on two players (even though they are two of the best in world, so it should justify a fair amount of recent sloppy play).

The Wings defense is ravaged and you've got guys playing the point on the PP that have no business there, yet you're surprised they all of a sudden are giving up shorty's? It can't be more obvious than the obvious.

The biggest problem/obstacle for this team once they've gotten healthy is putting up their share of wins on the road. They're not going to go between 8-0 and 16-0 at home in the playoffs so that should be the focus down the stretch. This team with all its injuries is playing like they should, mediocre. The bright side of things is that in the absence of our injured, the guys we needed to step up, without question have.


Datsyuk and Lidstrom are top-tier. Bertuzzi has his flashes of brilliance, but like Mule, floats 85% of the time, a beneficiary of Datsyuk. Kindl and Ericsson have since been replaced by better players in Quincey and Smith, while Janik has been unnoticeable, in a good way. Eaves is the only one outside of Datsyuk and Lidstrom who we should really miss, beyond Bertuzzi being a reasonable improvement over Cleary in the top 6.

The bold part perplexes me: exactly which players have stepped up as we needed to? Franzen, who it seems is impossible to interest sufficiently to get him to put in much effort, to the point where he is being pushed around from young legs to young legs, continuing to waste other players enthusiasm? Hudler, who he far greater hindrance than help on a line with two players who are playing stellar despite him? White, who in the absence of Lidstrom has seen a sharp decline?

Now if you're referring to Filppula and Zetterberg, I'd say they were stepped up prior and never a problem. If you're talking about our two AHL call-ups in Smith and Nyquist that have been great, I would agree, despite the fact that they should be called on only to stop the bleeding, not shoulder significant load (for instance, Janik as been pretty good). The problem with most injuries is both the lack of the players you lose and the assumed ineptitude of the players at the low end of the depth chart. Unfortunately, the majority of said ineptitude exists in the players who had a roster spot prior to the injury bug, the ones on the higher end of the pay scale.

On paper this team should be mediocre, but performing. It isn't either. Half the team isn't skating on any given night, with the ones who are supposed to be part of the solution (Franzen, Hudler, etc.) instead being the heart of the problem. And as for mediocre: 6-4 is mediocre. 5-5 is mediocre. 3-6-1 is bad. The 3: Kings, Wild, Bluejackets (10th, 13th, and 15th, respectively)

#16 korrowan

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

His point was about giving up the short handed goals. I'm pretty sure it was Smith that lost the puck that led to the shorty last night. The guys has 10 NHL games under his belt. It happens. I think that was the point.


Was it Smith the last 3 times? Or how about the 9 before that. Its absolutely ridiculous and its not guys like Smith for most part. Its Kronwall, Hudler, White etc. It happening to Smith is one thing but just having Hudler on the PP = a short handed goal like the one in Philly. I was embarrassed to be wearing a Wings jersey in that building when he did that. I even told the Flyers fan I was with if Hudler gets the puck on the PP anywhere near the point its probably a SH and it was. The entire thing needs to be fixed and quickly and Dats and Lids are not the answer.

Oh and WTF is up with White. Since Lids has been out he has been pretty much terrible which scares the hell outta me about the future.

#17 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

Datsyuk and Lidstrom are top-tier. Bertuzzi has his flashes of brilliance, but like Mule, floats 85% of the time, a beneficiary of Datsyuk. Kindl and Ericsson have since been replaced by better players in Quincey and Smith, while Janik has been unnoticeable, in a good way. Eaves is the only one outside of Datsyuk and Lidstrom who we should really miss, beyond Bertuzzi being a reasonable improvement over Cleary in the top 6.

The bold part perplexes me: exactly which players have stepped up as we needed to? Franzen, who it seems is impossible to interest sufficiently to get him to put in much effort, to the point where he is being pushed around from young legs to young legs, continuing to waste other players enthusiasm? Hudler, who he far greater hindrance than help on a line with two players who are playing stellar despite him? White, who in the absence of Lidstrom has seen a sharp decline?

Now if you're referring to Filppula and Zetterberg, I'd say they were stepped up prior and never a problem. If you're talking about our two AHL call-ups in Smith and Nyquist that have been great, I would agree, despite the fact that they should be called on only to stop the bleeding, not shoulder significant load (for instance, Janik as been pretty good). The problem with most injuries is both the lack of the players you lose and the assumed ineptitude of the players at the low end of the depth chart. Unfortunately, the majority of said ineptitude exists in the players who had a roster spot prior to the injury bug, the ones on the higher end of the pay scale.

On paper this team should be mediocre, but performing. It isn't either. Half the team isn't skating on any given night, with the ones who are supposed to be part of the solution (Franzen, Hudler, etc.) instead being the heart of the problem. And as for mediocre: 6-4 is mediocre. 5-5 is mediocre. 3-6-1 is bad. The 3: Kings, Wild, Bluejackets (10th, 13th, and 15th, respectively)


Clearly a shake-up on the PP is needed. As far as calling players out, do you really believe Babs should get on Dats' case given he hasn't played in 3 weeks and Lids who hasn't played in a couple? Do you really feel "calling them out" as you say is going to all of a sudden make the PP click?

These aren't a bunch of middle-schoolers...or the Montreal Canadiens. Calling them out isn't going to do s***.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#18 b.shanafan14

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

These aren't a bunch of middle-schoolers...or the Montreal Canadiens. Calling them out isn't going to do s***.


Agree. The media route doesn't work at all, and its far from Babcock's style. We don't know what goes on in the room, and they may very well be getting a new orifice every night. However, the concern remains that the same players who are not motivated are not getting motivated, and when the coach refrains from even sitting a player for several shifts, or giving them a decent chew on the bench, the perception is that he isn't doing jack.

I believe in Babcock, and I still like the way he composes himself. I am just losing faith in a lot of the players who we should reasonably expect to shoulder some of the load.

#19 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

Datsyuk and Lidstrom are top-tier. Bertuzzi has his flashes of brilliance, but like Mule, floats 85% of the time, a beneficiary of Datsyuk. Kindl and Ericsson have since been replaced by better players in Quincey and Smith, while Janik has been unnoticeable, in a good way. Eaves is the only one outside of Datsyuk and Lidstrom who we should really miss, beyond Bertuzzi being a reasonable improvement over Cleary in the top 6.

The bold part perplexes me: exactly which players have stepped up as we needed to? Franzen, who it seems is impossible to interest sufficiently to get him to put in much effort, to the point where he is being pushed around from young legs to young legs, continuing to waste other players enthusiasm? Hudler, who he far greater hindrance than help on a line with two players who are playing stellar despite him? White, who in the absence of Lidstrom has seen a sharp decline?

Now if you're referring to Filppula and Zetterberg, I'd say they were stepped up prior and never a problem. If you're talking about our two AHL call-ups in Smith and Nyquist that have been great, I would agree, despite the fact that they should be called on only to stop the bleeding, not shoulder significant load (for instance, Janik as been pretty good). The problem with most injuries is both the lack of the players you lose and the assumed ineptitude of the players at the low end of the depth chart. Unfortunately, the majority of said ineptitude exists in the players who had a roster spot prior to the injury bug, the ones on the higher end of the pay scale.

On paper this team should be mediocre, but performing. It isn't either. Half the team isn't skating on any given night, with the ones who are supposed to be part of the solution (Franzen, Hudler, etc.) instead being the heart of the problem. And as for mediocre: 6-4 is mediocre. 5-5 is mediocre. 3-6-1 is bad. The 3: Kings, Wild, Bluejackets (10th, 13th, and 15th, respectively)

The guys I was referring to that have stepped up are Z and Fil. Franzen, I'll grant you but I'm talking about the guys that we rely on to be top-end with an injured lineup or not.

TBH, I just think people are getting pissy simply because this team is playing to a level that should be expected with the lineup they're currently icing and unfortunately it happens to be at one of the most crucial times of the regular season.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#20 korrowan

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:18 AM

The guys I was referring to that have stepped up are Z and Fil. Franzen, I'll grant you but I'm talking about the guys that we rely on to be top-end with an injured lineup or not.

TBH, I just think people are getting pissy simply because this team is playing to a level that should be expected with the lineup they're currently icing and unfortunately it happens to be at one of the most crucial times of the regular season.


I think people are getting pissy because other teams lose guys and keep rolling. This team loses a guy and falls apart and I think everyone has been pissed about the PP and its not injuries that are causing that problem.





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