47 replies to this topic

[sean]

I don't think remaining cap space is Holland's primary criteria when considering acquisitions. If that were the case, we'd have probably shelled out the cash for Jagr this off-season. I really think for Holland, it's more about value -- Am I getting what I paid for? Pretty much every move he makes is a steal, because, well, those are the only moves he cares to make.

To this end, I really don't see Holland moving on a Parise or Suter this off-season. While they are likely amongst the best players available, the media salivating over them and the way GMs blow cap space these days pretty much ensures they won't be a good value. Of course, there is always some chance -- perhaps Parise really wants to play in Detroit.

I can't believe the hype that surrounded Paul fricken Gaustad on deadline day.

Edited by sean, 27 March 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[sean]

Let's get real people, Holland is never going to trade Cleary. I wish he would, but it's never going to happen. I'll be surprised if Holland doesn't resign him (again, I hate to say to say it).

If Lidstrom retires (he won't), then Suter is a lock.

We will resign Quincey.

We NEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD top 6 talent. We have 3 solid top 6 players who can be counted on game in game out. Franzen is a toss up, who knows what the hell he'll bring. The point is, he can't be counted on. Bertuzzi will obviously play in the top 6. We need a good UFA signing. Parise is perfect and he have the space to sign me. He'd probably take Datsyuk money. I base this off nothing.

Then hopefully we can sign Gaustad or someone for the bottom 6.

Continuity is the reason this team has made the playoffs 21 years in a row.

[Z and D for the C]

Good players is the reason this team has made the playoffs 21 seasons in a row.

To this end, I really don't see Holland moving on a Parise or Suter this off-season. While they are likely amongst the best players available, the media salivating over them and the way GMs blow cap space these days pretty much ensures they won't be a good value. Of course, there is always some chance -- perhaps Parise really wants to play in Detroit.

Remember a guy named Marian Hossa?

[Nev]

By the time we've re-signed Lidstrom, Quincey, Abdelkader and Helm, and released Hudler, Stuart and Holmstrom, we have about $8m left in cap space which gives us a shot at only one of Parise and Suter.

[Dabura]

Remember a guy named Marian Hossa?

Indeed I do. I was one of the three or four guys constantly insisting that signing him was financially feasible and would be worth it.

Edited by Dabura, 28 March 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[Esquire]

We have no idea how much cap space there will be. I have read everywhere from 6 million more in cap space to the cap going down by 25%. The CBA will dictate that more than anything else, and really we don't know what will happen with that. I suspect that Suter would be added no matter what... I don't know about anyone else.

IMO, these are the only two points anyone should be concerned about at this point. We're also assuming there will actually be a season next year.

[RippedOnNitro]

My gut tells me that we won't sign any of Suter and Parise. But then again...I was pleasantly surprised when Hossa signed.
I also find it hardly to believe that we are going to sit with a lot of cap space left (again) without having a plan to spend it wisely.
But as Majsheppard and Esquire mentioned...what will happen to the cap? And is there even going to be a (recuded) season?

Btw...if the cap goes down, what will happen with teams already spending over the cap? Do they need to buy out players or something like that?

Edited by RippedOnNitro, 28 March 2012 - 07:31 AM.

[sean]

Good players is the reason this team has made the playoffs 21 seasons in a row.


Remember a guy named Marian Hossa?

True, Hossa was a big signing, a very un-Holland one, IMO. But, I was surprised he signed a one year deal...I'm not so sure Parise would do that.

[F.Michael]

We have no idea how much cap space there will be. I have read everywhere from 6 million more in cap space to the cap going down by 25%. The CBA will dictate that more than anything else, and really we don't know what will happen with that. I suspect that Suter would be added no matter what... I don't know about anyone else.

The irony of it all is that the current CBA runs until September 15th...That'll give GM's ample opportunity to overpay July 1st.

I'm hoping Holland lets Hudler walk, re-signs Quincey, and adds Parise...Somehow I get the feeling Suter will stay a Pred.

My gut tells me that we won't sign any of Suter and Parise. But then again...I was pleasantly surprised when Hossa signed.
I also find it hardly to believe that we are going to sit with a lot of cap space left (again) without having a plan to spend it wisely.
But as Majsheppard and Esquire mentioned...what will happen to the cap? And is there even going to be a (recuded) season?

Btw...if the cap goes down, what will happen with teams already spending over the cap? Do they need to buy out players or something like that?

A few weeks ago on HNIC's "Satellite Hotstove" the panel mentioned that there would likely be another "roll back" of salaries to get teams under a new cap...All I see is another lock-out looming.

[mmamolo]

The irony of it all is that the current CBA runs until September 15th...That'll give GM's ample opportunity to overpay July 1st.

I'm hoping Holland lets Hudler walk, re-signs Quincey, and adds Parise...Somehow I get the feeling Suter will stay a Pred.


A few weeks ago on HNIC's "Satellite Hotstove" the panel mentioned that there would likely be another "roll back" of salaries to get teams under a new cap...All I see is another lock-out looming.

Assuming a roll back without a lockout it really would work out well for GMs and teams. It would mean that on July 1 you could build your team under the cap number (whatever it gets announced as) and ideally sign players on that basis. Then, when the roll back happens everyone's salaries take a hit. obviously a lockout would be the concern but if it's a small rollback the players may be fine with it.

What's even better (financially) is that for teams with players signed long term (i.e. Zetterberg, Franzen) after the roll back their salaries not only decrease but remain at that new level as the cap (ideally) rises year after year moving forward. That would mean an increased bargain.

[JPT]

Assuming a roll back without a lockout it really would work out well for GMs and teams.

I don't think the players will feel quite so rosy about this.

I think it's in the long term interest of the team to sign a Parise or Suter. I know neither are guaranteed and I'm not suggesting that we should overpay(~7mil/yr I suppose is market rate)but the stars on this team are aging and a forward is not going to be effective in his late 30's(Selanne aside). We need some younger top end talent on the team so when Dats and Z are getting up there we don't have to rely on them so much.

I know there is some nice talent in the pipe but you never know what will happen with those guys....

[mmamolo]

I don't think the players will feel quite so rosy about this.

I think it's in the long term interest of the team to sign a Parise or Suter. I know neither are guaranteed and I'm not suggesting that we should overpay(~7mil/yr I suppose is market rate)but the stars on this team are aging and a forward is not going to be effective in his late 30's(Selanne aside). We need some younger top end talent on the team so when Dats and Z are getting up there we don't have to rely on them so much.

I know there is some nice talent in the pipe but you never know what will happen with those guys....

Well, yeah, I'm not saying the players would be thrilled. Last time there was a rollback of 22% (I believe). The players also lost an entire year's worth of earnings. If the owners presented a rollback of say 5% it might not be so bad. Either way, that's all irrelevant. I was just saying that working on the assumption that there is a rollback (and preferably no lock out) that it could be to the teams advantage. That's why it will and should be business as usual come July 1

[kipwinger]

Good players is the reason this team has made the playoffs 21 seasons in a row.



Remember a guy named Marian Hossa?

You mean the Marian Hossa who Holland had no interest in, and who's agent called Holland and said that Hossa wanted to play for Detroit so bad that he'd take a pay cut and sign a short term deal to do so? I remember him too, but I hardly think that his actions are par for the course.

Edited by kipwinger, 28 March 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[sean]

i just negged you by mistake

[blueadams]

The people saying that there's NO chance we will sign either Parise or Suter, with all the cap space that we're going to have, are some combination of insane and extremely negative.

#1) I think we will sign Parise, regardless of what happens. We do need a legit top 6 scorer desperately. This will be our time to get one.

#2) If Lidstrom retires, then we probably get Suter too (kind of like when we replaced Schneider with Rafalski). That's a big hole to fill and it will take a big commitment.

#3) If Lidstrom doesn't retire, then we probably don't get Suter. Maybe we'll wait for Weber, or whoever else, next season. I'd love it if we traded Cleary and let Quincey walk, but it probably won't happen.

Most likely 2012/2013 Detroit Red Wings Team:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Parise
Nyquist-Zetterberg-Filppula
Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi (I hate this line)
Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves
Emmerton
Mursak

Lidstrom or Suter-White
Kronwall-Smith
Ericsson-Quincey
Kindl

Howard
MacDonald

Edited by blueadams, 28 March 2012 - 11:20 PM.

[VM1138]

Here's the thing, why push hard for Parise when he will easily go between 7-8 million. I know he's really good and can score around 40 goals, but do we really need a 40 goal guy? Wouldn't we be just as well off with another 25-30 goal scorer to fill out the top six and save the extra money. Basically, I'm thinking about someone like Montreal got in Erik Cole last season, or Pittsburgh has in Neal.

As witnessed the last three years, Detroit can never have enough 40 goal guys. This year we didn't even crack 30 goals from anyone. The 20 goal depth scorer strategy is fine and all, but the Wings have been relying on that for years and it's been painful at times. We need someone who can consistently score for when Franzen is in a slump and Dats and Z are injured.

[Esquire]

As witnessed the last three years, Detroit can never have enough 40 goal guys. This year we didn't even crack 30 goals from anyone. The 20 goal depth scorer strategy is fine and all, but the Wings have been relying on that for years and it's been painful at times. We need someone who can consistently score for when Franzen is in a slump and Dats and Z are injured.

Players with 40 goals or more:

2011-12 = 2 (so far)
2010-11 = 5
2009-10 = 7
2008-09 = 8

Nevermind Detroit, the entire LEAGUE needs more 40 goal scorers. Expecting the number of prolific goal scorers of years past to be readily available in today's NHL is a pipe dream for fans. The Blues top goal scorer has 23 goals on the season yet they get it done. We need to level our expectations going forward.

And having a single prolific goal scorer who goes on streaks takes a back seat to an entire team who consistantly chip in if you were to ask me. Hell, just ask St.Louis.

[Tim Cheveldae's Ghost]

We'll need to see what happens from CBA talks to accurately determine how much cap space the Wings will have to spend. General thinking is that the owners will want the cap lowered and no longer tied to league revenues so that it stays stagnant or moves very little.

[Z and D for the C]

You mean the Marian Hossa who Holland had no interest in, and who's agent called Holland and said that Hossa wanted to play for Detroit so bad that he'd take a pay cut and sign a short term deal to do so?

Where are you getting this? What GM would have ZERO interest in a player like Hossa? And did he sign him or not?

Don't be stupid, of course Holland was interested in Hossa but he probably never though Hossa would sign a one year contract.

Edited by Z and D for the C, 29 March 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[mmamolo]

Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi (I hate this line)

What's to hate about that line? Cleary has been hobbled this year because of his knee problems. But typically he's a much better and quicker skater than he has displayed this season. Bertuzzi is much better with the puck than people sometimes give him credit for being. I actually think this is the preferred (for me) 3rd line