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this team is soft


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#41 Shaman

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:05 AM

This poor poor horse.

It's okay, the poor guy died a long time ago, some people just insist on beating it.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#42 b.shanafan14

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:26 AM

That's kinda sorta not the point. Wading through the noise to find threads about subjects that haven't been beaten to death is rather hard most days. It's either threads about HWSNBN, enforcers, Babcock/random player sucks, we're too soft....ad infinitum. It would be nice if people did a search on a particular topic to see if it's been discussed recently, and add their opinion to that thread rather than create a new one for a point that's been made a thousand times already.


I too am sick of this thread (among the others you mentioned) popping up constantly. BUT worse than "wading" through topics one can easily just ignore to begin with, letting it slide down the discussion board out of sight, is a thread on the board being bogged down (and bumped) with complaints about complaining, in this case over a dozen replies arguing the thread not the topic. :P Talk about wading through the noise...

I don't think the Wings lose because they are soft, unless you count players like Franzen being soft in the heart or players like White being soft in the head (when not with Lidstrom). However, the Wings do lack that "steadying hand" when the rough stuff does start, something you don't really notice 90% of the games because it doesn't come to it. Because its rare, I understand the argument of Holland and Babcock, not wanting to give up a roster spot to someone useless on the ice. Unfortunately, "useless on the ice" pretty much sums up Emmerton and the 4th line. If we aren't going to play them more than 5 minutes a night, how much worse could a guy that keeps the flies off be?

Grinding, contributing 4th liner > Fighter who can't contribute >> Emmerton who can't contribute or grind

EDIT: I do enjoy a funny meme to poke fun here and there, I love a good jab :D just not all out arguments against the topic. For instance...

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Edited by b.shanafan14, 30 March 2012 - 11:20 AM.


#43 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:00 PM

I too am sick of this thread (among the others you mentioned) popping up constantly. BUT worse than "wading" through topics one can easily just ignore to begin with, letting it slide down the discussion board out of sight, is a thread on the board being bogged down (and bumped) with complaints about complaining, in this case over a dozen replies arguing the thread not the topic. :P Talk about wading through the noise...

I don't think the Wings lose because they are soft, unless you count players like Franzen being soft in the heart or players like White being soft in the head (when not with Lidstrom). However, the Wings do lack that "steadying hand" when the rough stuff does start, something you don't really notice 90% of the games because it doesn't come to it. Because its rare, I understand the argument of Holland and Babcock, not wanting to give up a roster spot to someone useless on the ice. Unfortunately, "useless on the ice" pretty much sums up Emmerton and the 4th line. If we aren't going to play them more than 5 minutes a night, how much worse could a guy that keeps the flies off be?

Grinding, contributing 4th liner > Fighter who can't contribute >> Emmerton who can't contribute or grind

Exactly. It is a much rehashed topic, but if people don't like it, then they shouldn't post in it and they can watch it disappear down the list of threads on the page.

And honestly if the Wings were a team that played a chippy game like Boston or fought as much as the Rangers, I highly doubt there would be threads about the Wings shouldn't goon it up as much. People love the Wings, so they love the current incarnation, which is one that isn't very physical and doesn't fight much. But if they were a team that beat the snot out of other players, I don't think people here would be clucking their tongues in disapproval.

Overall I wouldn't say they're a soft team, but there's definitely guys who play soft for their size, and the Wings could definitely use their physical play. (I'm looking at you Franzen, Kindl, and Bertuzzi)

#44 newfy

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:15 PM

This thread isnt even about fighting, just soft play in general. Everyone on here always says you dont need to fight, just get a guy back with a big, clean hit. Well did anyone even breathe on Jack Johnson after he roughed up Filppula 3 times for no reason? Where was someone actually hitting Dorsett while he cross checked Kronwall infront of our own net for half of a shift or was running around all game? If youre not gonna fight, at least have some push back to show if you wanna run around so can we, and this wings team just doesnt do it.

Same posters who are against tough hockey always say the wings are fine and blah bla blah but why is Babcock subtly calling out the players to get tougher out there?

"we need Mule and Bert (Todd Bertuzzi) and (Danny) Cleary and Abby (Justin Abdelkader) and (Darren) Helm, when he gets back, all the guys that are capable of being physical."

“It's a physical time of the year coming (in the playoffs). The neutral zone is basically taken out of the game and you got to win the game below the tops of the circles in both zones, and those guys help you do that.''

If Babcock thought that the wings physicality was fine he wouldnt be saying s*** like this, he made a mentoin of it as one of our bigger problems in a loss against friggen columbus for gods sake

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#45 Frozen-Man

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:39 PM

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#46 Hockey Convert

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

"I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey... That's not how we're built, so you coach what you got."

- Mike Babcock, Jan. 2012




#47 Frozen-Man

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

"I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey... That's not how we're built, so you coach what you got."

- Mike Babcock, Jan. 2012


I'm not opposed to getting tougher and would wish we had more fights (I think they add a very enjoyable element to the game) but your quote is severely edited and doesn't really capture what Babs said or the point that he was making. The entire thing gives a different picture, and it was reported that when Babs made the statement you quoted he was joking, basically harassing a reporter for his question about the team's toughness.

“I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey. That’s not how we’re built, so you coach what you got. How’s that? No pride in that!” Detroit coach Mike Babcock said on Tuesday, drawing a laugh. “No, I take pride in the fact that we’re real disciplined. … We’re just built a different way, and you’ve got to win in your own way. Team toughness for us, toughness is how hard we are on the puck, and how we pursue it, how we keep coming. It’s got nothing to do with fighting and stoppages.”


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#48 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

Yeah but you can't help but think that Babs would really love to be the coach of a team like the Boston Bruins because of their size and toughness. I mean, yeah they have a bunch of spotpickers but they can still answer the bell if really needed.

#49 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:56 PM

Yeah but you can't help but think that Babs would really love to be the coach of a team like the Boston Bruins because of their size and toughness. I mean, yeah they have a bunch of spotpickers but they can still answer the bell if really needed.

I think Boston and New York are a lot more well-rounded than we are. I mean, if we exit the playoffs early again this year, one would think some kind of shakeup would happen.
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#50 F.Michael

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:29 PM

Exactly. It is a much rehashed topic, but if people don't like it, then they shouldn't post in it and they can watch it disappear down the list of threads on the page.

And honestly if the Wings were a team that played a chippy game like Boston or fought as much as the Rangers, I highly doubt there would be threads about the Wings shouldn't goon it up as much. People love the Wings, so they love the current incarnation, which is one that isn't very physical and doesn't fight much. But if they were a team that beat the snot out of other players, I don't think people here would be clucking their tongues in disapproval.

Overall I wouldn't say they're a soft team, but there's definitely guys who play soft for their size, and the Wings could definitely use their physical play. (I'm looking at you Franzen, Kindl, and Bertuzzi)

I wonder what LGW's would complain about if we had an exact copy of our 1997 Cup team?..Too many Russians?

:lol:

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#51 RedWingsExpert1988

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:45 AM

:siren::siren::siren:
The problem with Detroit is too many players have accomplished a lot in their career or their contracts just guarantee too much and it has caused them to become lazy. I also think babcocks reaction to the team doesn't help either after every game. The team is good, the problem is it needs a couple different types of players to improve the effort night in and night out. It needs 1 top 6 foward that is a sniper with preferably a right handed shot. A couple different bottom 6 players. I am sorry all you cleary fans but he is a great player when he is healthy but with him aging and all the injury problems I think its time to bring in a new player for his role whether it be a prospect or a trade or whatever. Holmstrom is an amazing player and a legend to remember for the past decade but he is use less unless on the power play. I dont think dats should be playing with holmstrom because it really does slow him down. Since he is so good at setting people up, why not pick up a player that can skate with him and also shoot the puck. Maybe that will solve the power play problems.

Hudler is a tough one, other than scoring goals he doesn't do much more than that. I will leave that up for the coaching staff to figure out what they want to do with him. Franzen on the other hand should be traded for a couple players or another player to fill his role but that is just me not ever really liking the guys style of play.

The defense, I think, is not as bad as everyone thinks. We have allowed less goals then last year which is an improvement. I don't disagree that some subtractions and additions on the defense could really improve us.

To top it off, I agree the team is extremely talented (when they want to be) but team could def use 1 or 2 tough players, which they don't have to put up more than 15 points a season, but at least check, fight, and be able to skate with the puck responsibly.
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#52 pondrocket

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

Changes will come this offseason, you will see a tougher team next season.


Not if it is up to Holland. Jimmy D is going to have to get involved if this is going to get fixed!

I wonder what LGW's would complain about if we had an exact copy of our 1997 Cup team?..Too many Russians?

:lol:


It's not 1997 and the Left Wing Lock is not getting established. The league has changed. The wings have something that works "to a point". I am bored, and so are many. Not what you need when you are getting ready to announce a new arena (5 - 6 months out)!

#53 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

*pillow fight*

#54 nuts2u

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 11:50 AM

This will only happen though if Kenny gets some balls and ship some players out of here for some tougher players.

Hudler, Homer, Stuart, should be gone. Emmerton and Ericsson should be shipped out for some tough players that can fill bottom 6 and 6th, 7th D man roles. We should have a full year of Smith who is tough as nails and we got some guys down in GR who are gritty and could have an impact.

Moen, Gustad, Prust, and Asham should all be Kenny targets in FA.

Oh and in before the "we need Parise/Suter" crowd, it is obvious Kenny will be after those 2 hard.



Franzen is the biggest ***** on the team and you never mentioned him at all.

#55 redwingfan19

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

Franzen is the biggest ***** on the team and you never mentioned him at all.


Left him out because Wings will be stuck with him wih that god awful contract.
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#56 Doc Holliday

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

Left him out because Wings will be stuck with him wih that god awful contract.


Campbell's contract was far worse and they were able to ship it out. The Rangers were able to ship Scott Gomez to Montreal.

If people honestly think Franzen has no value to any team in a trade, they are terribly undervaluing Franzen and his value to other GMs in the league. You won't get a star out of him, but you can get well-off serviceable players who can help make this team better.

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#57 nuts2u

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:49 PM

When was the last time the Wings traded one of their top 10 or even top 15 players for that matter? Help me out here cuz I've been thinking about this a bit and am too lazy (like Franzen) to do any research.

#58 joshy207

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:33 PM

When was the last time the Wings traded one of their top 10 or even top 15 players for that matter? Help me out here cuz I've been thinking about this a bit and am too lazy (like Franzen) to do any research.


06/07 Jason Williams to Chicago in Kyle Calder deal, 05/06 Jamie Rivers to Phoenix for pick, 03/04 Sean Avery and Max Kuznetsov to LA for Schneider. These are all borderline moves, Williams had been bumped down to probably 3rd line duty, Rivers was a 3rd-pairing D, Avery and Kuznetsov were 4th line and 5th/6th D, respectively. I don't remember any big off-season trades since Kozlov to Buffalo for Hasek in 2001.

#59 nuts2u

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:59 PM

06/07 Jason Williams to Chicago in Kyle Calder deal, 05/06 Jamie Rivers to Phoenix for pick, 03/04 Sean Avery and Max Kuznetsov to LA for Schneider. These are all borderline moves, Williams had been bumped down to probably 3rd line duty, Rivers was a 3rd-pairing D, Avery and Kuznetsov were 4th line and 5th/6th D, respectively. I don't remember any big off-season trades since Kozlov to Buffalo for Hasek in 2001.



I've been saying for a while that a trade is the only thing that will get this teams attention and make them play their ass off. But also believe that Holland is incapable of even entertaining such a radical thought.

#60 Dabura

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:09 PM

I've been saying for a while that a trade is the only thing that will get this teams attention and make them play their ass off. But also believe that Holland is incapable of even entertaining such a radical thought.


Wow, maybe it's just my Blessed State of Intoxication, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of folks here tonight. Cheers!

Don't Toews me, bro!






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