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#1 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

Toronto Star.

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#2 atodaso

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:55 PM

To me the league is handling this exactly the way it is supposed to be handled. The only reason to get NHL Centre Ice is to be able to watch out-of-market games, not your local team. That's what your local cable channels are for! I don't understand why people these days are so unreasonable. They think that paying a lousy $180 entitles you to every single NHL regular season game? In fact, that's almost what they are getting. And what makes any one think that they are entitled to millions of dollars just because the league is possibly doing something illegal (according to the way the law is written)?

#3 JPT

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 02:40 PM

To me the league is handling this exactly the way it is supposed to be handled. The only reason to get NHL Centre Ice is to be able to watch out-of-market games, not your local team. That's what your local cable channels are for! I don't understand why people these days are so unreasonable. They think that paying a lousy $180 entitles you to every single NHL regular season game? In fact, that's almost what they are getting. And what makes any one think that they are entitled to millions of dollars just because the league is possibly doing something illegal (according to the way the law is written)?


It's not about TV it's about the internet broadcast package the NHL offers.

The league restricts competition in the local broadcast market. I'm not going to argue the legality of it because frankly I don't have an informed enough opinion but I do find it interesting that the league can hold the NY Rangers fan hostage by not allowing the NYR fan who buys the online package to view Rangers games. The Rangers fan has to then purchase cable to be able to view games which is a ridiculous monthly amount for a ridiculous number of crappy channels. It just so happens that that enriches the Dolan's through Cablevision, a local cable provider in NY and NJ. They also own MSG the channel that air's the Rangers and they get a little slice through those cable subscriptions.

I'm not saying that's illegal but its certainly not in the best interest of the consumer. In an ideal world the NYR fan could subscribe to the online package, pay X and not have to subscribe to cable on a monthly basis should he or she not want to.

Sports is certainly one of the reasons I pay ridiculous amounts for cable on a monthly basis...otherwise I could find enough on Netflix and Hulu to keep me entertained.

#4 atodaso

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 02:52 PM

It's not about TV it's about the internet broadcast package the NHL offers.

The league restricts competition in the local broadcast market. I'm not going to argue the legality of it because frankly I don't have an informed enough opinion but I do find it interesting that the league can hold the NY Rangers fan hostage by not allowing the NYR fan who buys the online package to view Rangers games. The Rangers fan has to then purchase cable to be able to view games which is a ridiculous monthly amount for a ridiculous number of crappy channels. It just so happens that that enriches the Dolan's through Cablevision, a local cable provider in NY and NJ. They also own MSG the channel that air's the Rangers and they get a little slice through those cable subscriptions.

I'm not saying that's illegal but its certainly not in the best interest of the consumer. In an ideal world the NYR fan could subscribe to the online package, pay X and not have to subscribe to cable on a monthly basis should he or she not want to.

Sports is certainly one of the reasons I pay ridiculous amounts for cable on a monthly basis...otherwise I could find enough on Netflix and Hulu to keep me entertained.



I agree that ideally this would be a great way to please the fans. But I also don't see why it's a big deal to order a sports package from your local cable company so that you can watch your local team play all year long.
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#5 McAwesome

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

I think the main thing that most people overlook in cases like this is that the cable networks are customers of the NHL as well, they have purchased the broadcasting rights from the NHL, and the cable networks in turn sell the broadcasts to their customers. If the NHL were to cut out the cable networks, not only would they be throwing away several hundreds of millions of dollars in guaranteed revenue, they would also have to pay out to broadcast the games themselves. I understand the point of view of the parties responsible for filing this suit, but IMHO they either don't realize or don't care how the business works. If you want to watch your local team, you have to watch them on TV. The internet is still a long way away from being in a position to replace cable/satellite TV, though we will someday reach that point, and businesses like the NHL will have to re-think the way in which they reach their audience at that time, but not now, and not like this.

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#6 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

The NHL has, for years, found ways to milk more money from the fans, when it comes to viewing games. They have said before that if you want to watch your local team, you should buy tickets. But, here's the dealio...I live in Saskatchewan, but grew up south of Windsor, so I've been a DRW fan for many years. A few weeks ago, Detroit played in Vancouver, and the game was on SNETP (Sportsnet Pacific, I would assume) on Shaw Direct. I get that channel...I checked. At game time, I sat down in front of the boob tube, after claiming it in the name of the Legion of the Winged Wheel. I was greeted not with a pre game warmup by the teams...no poor grammar usage from announcers...no big talk about Sidney Crosby, even though he had nothing to do with this game but without him it couldn't happen and the entire future of the NHL could be in jeopardy. I got nothing but a black screen with a message telling me that I was in a blackout area, and essentially, I should buy a ticket and get my lazy ass to Vancouver. I hope the NHL gets nailed to the wall. I hope they get exposed for bending the fans over with every chance they get. I hope Gary Bettman spontaneously combusts. I hope this leads to more access to watch hockey.
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#7 esteef

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:54 PM

Bravo! I've been bitchin' about this for years!

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#8 55fan

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 05:18 PM

Good. I get NBC and the Minnesota Wild games. Other games are not offered by the only cable company serving Fargo. No NHL network. No Center Ice. I could get VS, but only if I go to the higher level of cable, which I can't afford, and which only broadcasts games on nights when I am working anyway.

If I'm going to watch on a little computer screen, I'm going to do it free unless I know for certain that I will be able to see all of the games.

If I had reliable, regular access to the games, and I knew I'd be home to watch them, I'd pay for them.

Maybe what they need is a smaller package that allows people to purchase "tickets" to watch a certain number of games rather than a boatload of games for a huge fee.

#9 atodaso

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 05:29 PM

The NHL has, for years, found ways to milk more money from the fans, when it comes to viewing games. They have said before that if you want to watch your local team, you should buy tickets. But, here's the dealio...I live in Saskatchewan, but grew up south of Windsor, so I've been a DRW fan for many years. A few weeks ago, Detroit played in Vancouver, and the game was on SNETP (Sportsnet Pacific, I would assume) on Shaw Direct. I get that channel...I checked. At game time, I sat down in front of the boob tube, after claiming it in the name of the Legion of the Winged Wheel. I was greeted not with a pre game warmup by the teams...no poor grammar usage from announcers...no big talk about Sidney Crosby, even though he had nothing to do with this game but without him it couldn't happen and the entire future of the NHL could be in jeopardy. I got nothing but a black screen with a message telling me that I was in a blackout area, and essentially, I should buy a ticket and get my lazy ass to Vancouver. I hope the NHL gets nailed to the wall. I hope they get exposed for bending the fans over with every chance they get. I hope Gary Bettman spontaneously combusts. I hope this leads to more access to watch hockey.


Or get Centre Ice. The point is that because you live outside of Vancouver you are supposed to get Centre Ice to be able to watch Vancouver games. I get SNP too and whenever the Canucks play, the channel is blacked out. So, when Detroit plays Vancouver I have to watch the game on one of the Centre Ice channels instead of the local channels. When the Wings play on TSN, CBC, or SNWest, I get to watch those games on TV. When they aren't showing the Wings' game on any of those channels, I have to then watch on Centre Ice.

#10 esteef

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 05:36 PM

Or get Centre Ice. The point is that because you live outside of Vancouver you are supposed to get Centre Ice to be able to watch Vancouver games. I get SNP too and whenever the Canucks play, the channel is blacked out. So, when Detroit plays Vancouver I have to watch the game on one of the Centre Ice channels instead of the local channels. When the Wings play on TSN, CBC, or SNWest, I get to watch those games on TV. When they aren't showing the Wings' game on any of those channels, I have to then watch on Centre Ice.

The system is poorly managed though. I pay extra for Center Ice and have two markets blacked out on it (LA and Anaheim) even though I only see LA's games on my local channel. I watch Kings vs Wings games on the local FSN but ALWAYS have to seek out a stream online to see Ducks vs Wings games. Paying extra and still not seeing your team is uber-frustrating.

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#11 Electrophile

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 05:37 PM

Not everyone can afford Centre Ice. I sure as hell can't. I've only recently just gone back to work, and finances are tight. Some people don't even have cable, either because they can't afford it, or because there's no real need for them to have it, since they wouldn't use more than one or two stations.

Out of market fans always get the shaft, and I don't think that's fair. If you don't agree with illegal streams, why can't the NHL make all games available online at a REASONABLE price. Not reasonable according to me, because I'd be a smart ass and say $0.25. Maybe something like $19.99 a month. Or $15.99 a month. Or set the price per game at $3.95. MLB.TV used to do that a few years ago. You could either buy the entire season's package, or you could just pay per game you wanted to watch. I would wholeheartedly support that.

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#12 atodaso

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 06:31 PM

The system is poorly managed though. I pay extra for Center Ice and have two markets blacked out on it (LA and Anaheim) even though I only see LA's games on my local channel. I watch Kings vs Wings games on the local FSN but ALWAYS have to seek out a stream online to see Ducks vs Wings games. Paying extra and still not seeing your team is uber-frustrating.

esteef



I can imagine that being frustrating. It happened once this year to me as well. The Wings were playing the Jets and the game was blacked out on Centre Ice because CBC was carrying the game. The problem was that CBC was also showing a couple of other games and different parts of Canada got different games. So I got shafted there.
It's weird that you get to watch Kings' games on FS West but not Ducks'.

Not everyone can afford Centre Ice. I sure as hell can't. I've only recently just gone back to work, and finances are tight. Some people don't even have cable, either because they can't afford it, or because there's no real need for them to have it, since they wouldn't use more than one or two stations.

Out of market fans always get the shaft, and I don't think that's fair. If you don't agree with illegal streams, why can't the NHL make all games available online at a REASONABLE price. Not reasonable according to me, because I'd be a smart ass and say $0.25. Maybe something like $19.99 a month. Or $15.99 a month. Or set the price per game at $3.95. MLB.TV used to do that a few years ago. You could either buy the entire season's package, or you could just pay per game you wanted to watch. I would wholeheartedly support that.


Not to be insensitive to your situation (or anyone else's) but I don't think paying $200 to get access to about 1000 NHL games (in HD) per season is a lot of money. I think it's a very reasonable price. And like it was mentioned before, that includes all the games except your local market.

#13 Electrophile

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 06:45 PM

$200 is a lot of money when that's 2/3 of your weekly paycheck. I'm glad you don't seem to think it's a lot of money, but for some of us it is. I make less than $1400 a month. I need to pay on my credit card, my cell phone, my student loans, and I need to be able to feed myself during the week. The money doesn't stay long. So no, $200 a month is not reasonable to me. I don't have an HD TV, nor can I afford one. So the fact the games are presented in HD is completely meaningless. If illegal streams are completely blocked, I would like a less expensive way to watch the Detroit Red Wings. I don't care about 1000 other games. I have no interest in any other team but the Red Wings, and I'm not going to pay $200 that I don't have to watch 1% of what I'm paying for.

As a bonus, if you say you're not about to say/do something.....that's exactly what you're going to end up doing.

Edited by Electrophile, 31 March 2012 - 06:46 PM.

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#14 Nightfall

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 06:49 PM

Not to be insensitive to your situation (or anyone else's) but I don't think paying $200 to get access to about 1000 NHL games (in HD) per season is a lot of money. I think it's a very reasonable price. And like it was mentioned before, that includes all the games except your local market.

I have to agree.

I have had NHL Center Ice and this year I have NHL Gamecenter Live. There is always a hockey game on, and while I love watching the Wings, watching other games on their off nights is enjoyable. The cost for Gamecenter Live is $160 a year, and that gets me everything. I stream from my computer to my TV, as well as from my PS3 to my TV in the living room. I also like streaming from my Ipad while in the bedroom too. Its a great deal.

$200 is a lot of money when that's 2/3 of your weekly paycheck. I'm glad you don't seem to think it's a lot of money, but for some of us it is. I make less than $1400 a month. I need to pay on my credit card, my cell phone, my student loans, and I need to be able to feed myself during the week. The money doesn't stay long. So no, $200 a month is not reasonable to me. I don't have an HD TV, nor can I afford one. So the fact the games are presented in HD is completely meaningless. If illegal streams are completely blocked, I would like a less expensive way to watch the Detroit Red Wings. I don't care about 1000 other games. I have no interest in any other team but the Red Wings, and I'm not going to pay $200 that I don't have to watch 1% of what I'm paying for.

As a bonus, if you say you're not about to say/do something.....that's exactly what you're going to end up doing.

Sounds like we will have to agree to disagree. You get what you pay for, and $160 is very reasonable for all out of market games. Sorry that you can't afford it.
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#15 Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 06:50 PM

Where I live, dish network says I am not in the detroit market, but center ice says I am. So im screwed both ways. I have been calling the cable and satellite companies forever. I talked to Fox and they said there was nothing they could do about it. I have to watch the replays.
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#16 esteef

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:11 PM

I can imagine that being frustrating. It happened once this year to me as well. The Wings were playing the Jets and the game was blacked out on Centre Ice because CBC was carrying the game. The problem was that CBC was also showing a couple of other games and different parts of Canada got different games. So I got shafted there.
It's weird that you get to watch Kings' games on FS West but not Ducks'.

Not so weird actually. The cable provider separates Orange County from LA which is normally done. The weird part is I'm in San Diego and get LA instead of geographically closer Anaheim. The suckish part is whoever blacks the games out doesn't check to see who has which and just blacks them all out. Tis boools***.

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#17 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:04 PM

Or get Centre Ice. The point is that because you live outside of Vancouver you are supposed to get Centre Ice to be able to watch Vancouver games. I get SNP too and whenever the Canucks play, the channel is blacked out. So, when Detroit plays Vancouver I have to watch the game on one of the Centre Ice channels instead of the local channels. When the Wings play on TSN, CBC, or SNWest, I get to watch those games on TV. When they aren't showing the Wings' game on any of those channels, I have to then watch on Centre Ice.


Which takes it back to the issue. I'm paying for satellite tv with sports channels and regular channels that show sports. Now I need to fork out my $32 every month to watch the games. The problem is that I don't live in any NHL market, but I still get blacked out. The NHL sucks and they are shooting themselves in the foot with all their bulls***.
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#18 b.shanafan14

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:50 PM

I'm from the U.P. going to grad school in Milwaukee until May, spending much of my time on campus, so for the past 5 years I've had to rely on these online stream services to watch my Wings. Last season I decided to get NHL Gamecenter Live (the online service), wanting high-quality, reliable streams which I was not seeing from HockeyStreams at the time (its since improved).

The service was a huge rip off. $180+ for 2/3 of the games I wanted to watch. Their service would blackout every game on Versus, NBC, and NHL Network. I don't have NHL Network and often would find myself on campus for the evening, unable to get home for games on NBC or Versus. I'd even find times (albeit rare) when I could get home, but Versus or NBC were televising based on region, and despite another game playing on the tube, I was STILL blacked out online. It was ridiculous, paying that much and still having to resort to terrible, buffering, blurry online streams for 1/3 of the games.

Edited by b.shanafan14, 31 March 2012 - 08:52 PM.


#19 malts85

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 11:18 PM

I'm just curious and this question goes to the other members who do have Center Ice, if you wanted to watch a Montreal game, do you have your choice of feeds being the other team, or RDS (in French). The only reason I ask is I'm in the Montreal area and am forced to watch it on RDS unless CBC is also airing the game, which isn't that often.

#20 fixxxer

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 11:46 PM

IMO if your paying for a service to watch hockey games there should be no blackouts period the fact that there are only goes to show how shady of a system it is. The fact that cable tv has a strangle hold on local sports is ridiculous. Over priced packages and filler channels are the reason I dumped cable. Don't get me wrong I would love to pay NHL to watch my Wings game but unfortunately for them I'm not going to open my wallet and throw my money at them.

Last I checked to get FSD added to my package I used to have was and extra $12/month (this was through att and prices I"m sure have gone up because this was over 1.5yrs ago). So paying for ONLY in market hockey games only 1 team your paying $144 just to watch the wings a year. Tack on 10 a month for HD services $120 a year total of $264 a year for FSD in HD and thats just looking at one channel for HD. Compare that to NHL center ice for every team cept the wings and your only paying $180 for the YEAR plus HD. Thats an $84 difference a year just looking at FSD vrs NHL center ice. Its much more considerable when you factor in the whole cable package your paying. A person would be saving hundreds of dollars (on the low end easily a $1,000+ for bigger cable packages) a year if this blackout s*** wasn't allowed to occur.

So to say that people are over reacting to be asking for what they are is BS in my opinion. Some people may not respect or care about where there money goes or how its spent but the way its set up now they are milking people who pay for both for every penny your worth and laughing all the way to the bank. I refuse to pay stupid amounts of money towards any cable provider to watch red wing hockey when I should be able to pay NHL just to include all teams regardless of where you live in their center ice packages.

$180 for center ice is dirt cheap compared to the cost of straight up cable + FSD. If they offered just your local area through center ice and thats it for $180 its still cheaper that way. It makes no sense not to include it some way in a NHL package.





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