96 replies to this topic

[b.shanafan14]

It would be an insult to offer a deal that small to a Hall of Famer like Lidstrom. Parise is going to get offered around 8Mil per year to play in his hometown I'm guessing. 7.5Mil at the lowest. Suter should get 7 Per year. And the Wild actually aren't a crap team. They were first in the league for the first half of the year until everyone and their brother got injured on that team, and they have (in all seriousness) a better future than the Wings because they have a talented, deep prospect pool which Detroit lacks. It's going to be hard to get Parise and/or Suter here. There will be plenty of competition that's for sure.

While I don't think the Wild are the worst team by any means, their success always seemed more like over-performing than something that could realistically be sustained the whole season. When they were at the top for a brief bit (first 1/3 MAYBE, not first 1/2), most of us saw a team that it would take little to bring back down to earth. Still a good ways from being a legitimate contender.

You completely lost me talking about the apparently huge discrepancy between the Wild's prospect pool and the Wing's. The Wings STILL have one of the deepest prospect pools around with regards to skill and have any number of players that could be contributors in the near future. The tricky thing with prospects is that skill doesn't always continue to develop, and the Wild will have the same problem. Usually more "busts" than there are game-breakers.

So in the meantime, the Red Wings are the better team on the ice, and at the very least equal in the "count your chickens before they hatch" world of player prospects.

[Echolalia]

You completely lost me talking about the apparently huge discrepancy between the Wild's prospect pool and the Wing's. The Wings STILL have one of the deepest prospect pools around with regards to skill and have any number of players that could be contributors in the near future. The tricky thing with prospects is that skill doesn't always continue to develop, and the Wild will have the same problem. Usually more "busts" than there are game-breakers.

So in the meantime, the Red Wings are the better team on the ice, and at the very least equal in the "count your chickens before they hatch" world of player prospects.

The Wings have several players who have the potential to make the jump to the NHL, much like the Wild do, but the difference between the two prospect pools is that the majority of our prospects aren't top line material. If they get into the NHL, they aren't going to be stars, they'll be supporting cast. And that's assuming they continue to develop, like you noted previously. The Wings aren't immune to promising prospects never making it to the NHL (Grigorenko, Ryno, Axellson, etc).
Minnesota's prospect pool has a much higher skill cap than ours. They have top six talent coming up and a lot of it.
I would hardly say that our prospects are at the very least equal to Minnesota's, or about half the league for that matter.

[Carman]

The Wings have several players who have the potential to make the jump to the NHL, much like the Wild do, but the difference between the two prospect pools is that the majority of our prospects aren't top line material. If they get into the NHL, they aren't going to be stars, they'll be supporting cast. And that's assuming they continue to develop, like you noted previously. The Wings aren't immune to promising prospects never making it to the NHL (Grigorenko, Ryno, Axellson, etc).
Minnesota's prospect pool has a much higher skill cap than ours. They have top six talent coming up and a lot of it.
I would hardly say that our prospects are at the very least equal to Minnesota's, or about half the league for that matter.

I doubt it. Granlund is really good, but I'm not sure how much better he will be than Nyquist who is further along. Coyle is impressive, but so is Jurco albeit I like Coyle more for his more physical play, but on just pure potential Jurco might have a higher ceiling. Brodin is a really good young defenseman, but I don't know if I'd take him over Smith. Hackket is looking good after a season in the AHL, but Mzarek had much better numbers at his point in his career. Phillips, Bulmer, Haula, and Zucker aren't significantly better than Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, and Tatar. I don't know I don't quite see how their prospects are much better, but that's just me I guess.

[Hatethedrake!]

Minnesota has the greatest prospects in the history of the NHL. They will all enter the league and the Wild will go 82-0 during the season and 16-0 in the playoffs. Conversely, the wings have the wort prospects in the history of the NHL and will go 0-82. Suter and Parise have issued restraining orders against Ken Holland. Kenny is not even allowed to make a phone call to Parise or Suter or else he could get a life prison sentence. Maybe he can watch tv in jail. The great Minnesota Wild with their awesome prospects beating every team 10-0 with Parise and Suter leading the way. The Wings will not be making the playoffs ever again becaause every team in the NHL has better prospects.

[Majsheppard]

The Wild have players that pursue the puck.

[b.shanafan14]

I doubt it. Granlund is really good, but I'm not sure how much better he will be than Nyquist who is further along. Coyle is impressive, but so is Jurco albeit I like Coyle more for his more physical play, but on just pure potential Jurco might have a higher ceiling. Brodin is a really good young defenseman, but I don't know if I'd take him over Smith. Hackket is looking good after a season in the AHL, but Mzarek had much better numbers at his point in his career. Phillips, Bulmer, Haula, and Zucker aren't significantly better than Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, and Tatar. I don't know I don't quite see how their prospects are much better, but that's just me I guess.

Yeah, I don't see it either. I guess I don't see much difference, and pretty much all of the prospects mentioned here have "top-six" potential, but you don't win Cup with potential. I don't see how the Wild have a brighter future than the Wings based on prospects alone. Factor in that basically anything can happen with these young developing players, and its often a crap-shoot.

Nyquist looks like top-six talent at the NHL level and he still has a ways to go as far as physical development is concerned. Smith could land anywhere from 2-5 on the back-end. Counting all the prospects from both teams, do the Wild have more promising prospects than just those two soon-to-be regulars on the Wings?

As I said, its most likely a wash. More than likely, the Wild will continue to be the same franchise they have been: not bad enough to be gifted a game-breaker in the draft, not good enough to make a serious run.

Of course, if they can add a player like Parise, that may all change.

[WingNut 25]

If paying Lidstrom $6 mill. next year costs the Wings flexibility and/or Parise and/or Suter, let him retire. The bigger picture is what's most important, not the past.

[Z Winged Dangler]

I doubt it. Granlund is really good, but I'm not sure how much better he will be than Nyquist who is further along. Coyle is impressive, but so is Jurco albeit I like Coyle more for his more physical play, but on just pure potential Jurco might have a higher ceiling. Brodin is a really good young defenseman, but I don't know if I'd take him over Smith. Hackket is looking good after a season in the AHL, but Mzarek had much better numbers at his point in his career. Phillips, Bulmer, Haula, and Zucker aren't significantly better than Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, and Tatar. I don't know I don't quite see how their prospects are much better, but that's just me I guess.

I'm with Carman on this one. After watching the WJHC this past year as well our prospects are looking pretty good. We got that Backman kid on D with Sweden too that looked good.

[centcougar07]

I doubt it. Granlund is really good, but I'm not sure how much better he will be than Nyquist who is further along. Coyle is impressive, but so is Jurco albeit I like Coyle more for his more physical play, but on just pure potential Jurco might have a higher ceiling. Brodin is a really good young defenseman, but I don't know if I'd take him over Smith. Hackket is looking good after a season in the AHL, but Mzarek had much better numbers at his point in his career. Phillips, Bulmer, Haula, and Zucker aren't significantly better than Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, and Tatar. I don't know I don't quite see how their prospects are much better, but that's just me I guess.

You have to do a little more research before you go and say that Detroit is anywhere close to what Minnesota has. It's just simply not true. Detroit has QUALITY prospects. Minnesota has OUTSTANDING prospects.

[centcougar07]

Yeah, I don't see it either. I guess I don't see much difference, and pretty much all of the prospects mentioned here have "top-six" potential, but you don't win Cup with potential. I don't see how the Wild have a brighter future than the Wings based on prospects alone. Factor in that basically anything can happen with these young developing players, and its often a crap-shoot.

Nyquist looks like top-six talent at the NHL level and he still has a ways to go as far as physical development is concerned. Smith could land anywhere from 2-5 on the back-end. Counting all the prospects from both teams, do the Wild have more promising prospects than just those two soon-to-be regulars on the Wings?

As I said, its most likely a wash. More than likely, the Wild will continue to be the same franchise they have been: not bad enough to be gifted a game-breaker in the draft, not good enough to make a serious run.

Of course, if they can add a player like Parise, that may all change.

Could not disagree more. Don't get too arrogant with how you compare our team to others in the league; its not a wash, not at all. As of now, Minnesota is superior in terms of young talent. Prospects are unproven and anything can happen but they have a lot of prospects considered the best among the league. Granlund and Brodin are considered "can't miss". We have to be honest here in our evaluation of franchises and their futures.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Could not disagree more. Don't get too arrogant with how you compare our team to others in the league; its not a wash, not at all. As of now, Minnesota is superior in terms of young talent. Prospects are unproven and anything can happen but they have a lot of prospects considered the best among the league. Granlund and Brodin are considered "can't miss". We have to be honest here in our evaluation of franchises and their futures.

And Minnesota has a good track record with prospects panning out? Is that why they make the playoffs EVERY year? If they have all these great prospects that are ready to go, why don't they get them in the lineup and make the playoffs? Nyquist/Smith are better now than any Wild prospect purely because they've already proven that they belong in the NHL and are good enough to play top 6/4 and produce.

If I were Parise and Suter, I'd choose the team with the better track record and compete for the cup, not the playoffs.

[centcougar07]

And Minnesota has a good track record with prospects panning out? Is that why they make the playoffs EVERY year? If they have all these great prospects that are ready to go, why don't they get them in the lineup and make the playoffs? Nyquist/Smith are better now than any Wild prospect purely because they've already proven that they belong in the NHL and are good enough to play top 6/4 and produce.

If I were Parise and Suter, I'd choose the team with the better track record and compete for the cup, not the playoffs.

I can't stress this enough: You HAVE to do your research before you make comments. If you want to talk about their prospects not panning out that's fine, but you should know that all those picks in the first round that never panned out were all drafted by the previous GM. Their current GM was the one that helped build the Anaheim stanley cup team and the Pittsburgh cup team. The draft picks HE has taken are all projected to come to the NHL next year, it's taken a few years for them to clean out all the s*** from the last regime and restock the shelves. And even though none of those prospects were pro this year, Minnesota probably would have made the playoffs had they been able to stay healthy. Look at them when they were healthy, they were winning like every game even without their touted prospects; and winning against the best teams. They beat us multiple times, they beat Nashville, New Jersey, Boston, Vancouver multiple times.. I'm not here to bash the wings' prospects or anything but as someone who follows the NHL closely, you're kidding yourself to think that Minnesota doesn't have one of the top 3-5 prospect pools in the league. And what the wings have is great, they have one guy who I think is top 6 for sure and then a couple other quality guys, but it's a far cry from what Minnesota has built, which only makes sense. Finally they get a competent GM and with all the high picks he's had, they are finally hitting on a lot of those. They of course have to prove themselves just like everyone else, but they are so deep with prospects that even if one or two are busts, they still have a bevy of other guys that will be home runs. Granlund alone is already scoring over a point per game as a youngster in a league full of men. It's just preposterous to compare Minnesota and Detroit in the area of prospects. Just as it would be to compare Mikko Koivu and Pavel Datsyuk. They are both good, but one is CLEARLY better than the other. With all that in mind, it's an absolute fallacy to be thinking that Parise and Suter with immediately sign with the Wings on July 1. Minnesota is not a team to be taken lightly in any sense.

[puckbags]

I can't stress this enough: You HAVE to do your research before you make comments. If you want to talk about their prospects not panning out that's fine, but you should know that all those picks in the first round that never panned out were all drafted by the previous GM. Their current GM was the one that helped build the Anaheim stanley cup team and the Pittsburgh cup team. The draft picks HE has taken are all projected to come to the NHL next year, it's taken a few years for them to clean out all the s*** from the last regime and restock the shelves. And even though none of those prospects were pro this year, Minnesota probably would have made the playoffs had they been able to stay healthy. Look at them when they were healthy, they were winning like every game even without their touted prospects; and winning against the best teams. They beat us multiple times, they beat Nashville, New Jersey, Boston, Vancouver multiple times.. I'm not here to bash the wings' prospects or anything but as someone who follows the NHL closely, you're kidding yourself to think that Minnesota doesn't have one of the top 3-5 prospect pools in the league. And what the wings have is great, they have one guy who I think is top 6 for sure and then a couple other quality guys, but it's a far cry from what Minnesota has built, which only makes sense. Finally they get a competent GM and with all the high picks he's had, they are finally hitting on a lot of those. They of course have to prove themselves just like everyone else, but they are so deep with prospects that even if one or two are busts, they still have a bevy of other guys that will be home runs. Granlund alone is already scoring over a point per game as a youngster in a league full of men. It's just preposterous to compare Minnesota and Detroit in the area of prospects. Just as it would be to compare Mikko Koivu and Pavel Datsyuk. They are both good, but one is CLEARLY better than the other. With all that in mind, it's an absolute fallacy to be thinking that Parise and Suter with immediately sign with the Wings on July 1. Minnesota is not a team to be taken lightly in any sense.

I'd be interested in you explaining this statement.

[b.shanafan14]

I can't stress this enough: You HAVE to do your research before you make comments. If you want to talk about their prospects not panning out that's fine, but you should know that all those picks in the first round that never panned out were all drafted by the previous GM. Their current GM was the one that helped build the Anaheim stanley cup team and the Pittsburgh cup team. The draft picks HE has taken are all projected to come to the NHL next year, it's taken a few years for them to clean out all the s*** from the last regime and restock the shelves. And even though none of those prospects were pro this year, Minnesota probably would have made the playoffs had they been able to stay healthy. Look at them when they were healthy, they were winning like every game even without their touted prospects; and winning against the best teams. They beat us multiple times, they beat Nashville, New Jersey, Boston, Vancouver multiple times.. I'm not here to bash the wings' prospects or anything but as someone who follows the NHL closely, you're kidding yourself to think that Minnesota doesn't have one of the top 3-5 prospect pools in the league. And what the wings have is great, they have one guy who I think is top 6 for sure and then a couple other quality guys, but it's a far cry from what Minnesota has built, which only makes sense. Finally they get a competent GM and with all the high picks he's had, they are finally hitting on a lot of those. They of course have to prove themselves just like everyone else, but they are so deep with prospects that even if one or two are busts, they still have a bevy of other guys that will be home runs. Granlund alone is already scoring over a point per game as a youngster in a league full of men. It's just preposterous to compare Minnesota and Detroit in the area of prospects. Just as it would be to compare Mikko Koivu and Pavel Datsyuk. They are both good, but one is CLEARLY better than the other. With all that in mind, it's an absolute fallacy to be thinking that Parise and Suter with immediately sign with the Wings on July 1. Minnesota is not a team to be taken lightly in any sense.

I can't stress this enough: you HAVE to stop dismissing all opinions that differ from your own as being uninformed.

We were all speaking specifically about their current prospects, not just folks drafted by the former GM. You've neglected to do that. All you've added is that 1) you know more, 2) they have a new GM who helped build a cup winning Anaheim team and a team in Pittsburgh that was built the same way the Blackhawks and soon-to-be Oilers are being built: get top pick and take top player, and 3) they beat good teams multiple times during their last regular season, which resulted in missing the playoffs, again (even though as a Wings fan you should know that they always turn in stinkers against bottom-dweller).

No one has said Parise and Suter are a lock for the Wings. No one has bagged on the Minnesota prospect pool. You're the only one being contentious and pretentious about your opinion. Minnesota doesn't have a good track record, and citing a supposedly elite prospect pool (which should be an oxymoron) as a reason why the Wild is better off than the Wings and thus a better destination for free agents is a flawed argument, which is the reason for us discussing Wild vs. Wings prospects in a thread about signing Zach Parise Others have demonstrated knowledge enough to break-down each team's best prospects and the consensus is that difference in prospect pool + current NHL product =/= Wild as the better team.

Toews. Kane. Stamkos. Those are the only type of "can't miss" draft signings there are these days. The Wild need Top 3 forwards, Top 2 defenseman. Even if they got 2 or 3 Filppulas and 1 or 2 Kronwalls out of their current pool, they'll lack what it takes to make a legitimate run at the cup. And that's assuming they adjust immediately to the big leagues, unlike Filppula or Kronwall.

Contribute to the conversation and argue your point all you like, but you've provided nothing that justifies dismissal of others points as inferior to your own

[Z Winged Dangler]

I can't stress this enough: you HAVE to stop dismissing all opinions that differ from your own as being uninformed.

We were all speaking specifically about their current prospects, not just folks drafted by the former GM. You've neglected to do that. All you've added is that 1) you know more, 2) they have a new GM who helped build a cup winning Anaheim team and a team in Pittsburgh that was built the same way the Blackhawks and soon-to-be Oilers are being built: get top pick and take top player, and 3) they beat good teams multiple times during their last regular season, which resulted in missing the playoffs, again (even though as a Wings fan you should know that they always turn in stinkers against bottom-dweller).

No one has said Parise and Suter are a lock for the Wings. No one has bagged on the Minnesota prospect pool. You're the only one being contentious and pretentious about your opinion. Minnesota doesn't have a good track record, and citing a supposedly elite prospect pool (which should be an oxymoron) as a reason why the Wild is better off than the Wings and thus a better destination for free agents is a flawed argument, which is the reason for us discussing Wild vs. Wings prospects in a thread about signing Zach Parise Others have demonstrated knowledge enough to break-down each team's best prospects and the consensus is that difference in prospect pool + current NHL product =/= Wild as the better team.

Toews. Kane. Stamkos. Those are the only type of "can't miss" draft signings there are these days. The Wild need Top 3 forwards, Top 2 defenseman. Even if they got 2 or 3 Filppulas and 1 or 2 Kronwalls out of their current pool, they'll lack what it takes to make a legitimate run at the cup. And that's assuming they adjust immediately to the big leagues, unlike Filppula or Kronwall.

Contribute to the conversation and argue your point all you like, but you've provided nothing that justifies dismissal of others points as inferior to your own

Thanks, you pretty much answered for me and saved me a lot of typing. And to centcougar07, i'm on LGW and various other hockey sites for an average of 2 hours a day and I do a lot of research and not just on the Wings. I know my s*** too bud.

[MibJab]

The media seems to have blown this whole Parise / Suter to Detroit combo way out of proportion. I have a feeling we'll see either player go to other teams for an over inflated price. We're not building internally. If Nyquist is our top forward prospect... we are more than doomed. With the spike in physical play, small forwards are getting worn out and becoming less effective. Professional hockey is drastically losing skill and sportsmanship. So, why not follow suit? This is a business. The fans want to see heart, blood, and sweat...Give 'em what they want. Where's the meat and potatoes?

[Frozen-Man]

I can't stress this enough: you HAVE to stop dismissing all opinions that differ from your own as being uninformed.

We were all speaking specifically about their current prospects, not just folks drafted by the former GM. You've neglected to do that. All you've added is that 1) you know more, 2) they have a new GM who helped build a cup winning Anaheim team and a team in Pittsburgh that was built the same way the Blackhawks and soon-to-be Oilers are being built: get top pick and take top player, and 3) they beat good teams multiple times during their last regular season, which resulted in missing the playoffs, again (even though as a Wings fan you should know that they always turn in stinkers against bottom-dweller).

No one has said Parise and Suter are a lock for the Wings. No one has bagged on the Minnesota prospect pool. You're the only one being contentious and pretentious about your opinion. Minnesota doesn't have a good track record, and citing a supposedly elite prospect pool (which should be an oxymoron) as a reason why the Wild is better off than the Wings and thus a better destination for free agents is a flawed argument, which is the reason for us discussing Wild vs. Wings prospects in a thread about signing Zach Parise Others have demonstrated knowledge enough to break-down each team's best prospects and the consensus is that difference in prospect pool + current NHL product =/= Wild as the better team.

Toews. Kane. Stamkos. Those are the only type of "can't miss" draft signings there are these days. The Wild need Top 3 forwards, Top 2 defenseman. Even if they got 2 or 3 Filppulas and 1 or 2 Kronwalls out of their current pool, they'll lack what it takes to make a legitimate run at the cup. And that's assuming they adjust immediately to the big leagues, unlike Filppula or Kronwall.

Contribute to the conversation and argue your point all you like, but you've provided nothing that justifies dismissal of others points as inferior to your own

If you would have done your research you would see that you are wrong and I am right because my research is better than your research.


J/K Great post.