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#41 Echolalia

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

Its an explanation that is 100% accurate. Experience counts for a lot. There are many people who change their tune quickly when they put on the stripes and ref a ice hockey game. You can discount it all you want, but like it or not, its an accurate statement.

Also, I am not over trivializing it at all. In fact, in the quote you posted, I said 98 times out of 100 it would get caught. I may even go as high as 99 times out of 100, because you don't see this kind of thing except maybe once a season. I agree with you that its shocking that it was missed, but at the same time, it doesn't surprise me because the refs miss things all the time. Back in 09 when the Penguins had 6 people plus the goalie on the ice for that power play, everyone was asking, "How could they miss that?" My answer remains the same, because they are human.


I agree with what your saying and understand that refs miss stuff all the time and its only natural they do, simply because they are human. I just want to bust your chops a bit :)
It's tough to say that they would catch this 98 times out of 100, because right now they're 0 for 1 in as long as I've been watching.
Also, I may be mistaken, but didn't the refs catch the Pens on that 6 on 5, and actually yell at someone on the ice to get off for like 20 seconds before they did? That seems to be my recollection, and part of why it was so controversial.

#42 rrasco

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

Very good catch, I stand corrected on that. It would appear to me that you were right. There were 4 sets of eyes that missed that. Just like there were four sets of eyes that missed the Penguins using 6 people on the power play for over a minute back in 09.


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#43 edicius

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:22 PM

Just like there were four sets of eyes that missed the Penguins using 6 people on the power play for over a minute back in 09.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=V3WmdGZZWDQ


Oh, they didn't miss that. One of the officials shooed the offending Penguin back to the bench without making a call. Look at 1:03 of the video. <_<

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#44 Nightfall

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:38 PM

Oh, they didn't miss that. One of the officials shooed the offending Penguin back to the bench without making a call. Look at 1:03 of the video. <_<

I looked for the "shoo" and I didn't see it. :)

Guess I am qualified to be an NHL ref more than I thought. :)

I agree with what your saying and understand that refs miss stuff all the time and its only natural they do, simply because they are human. I just want to bust your chops a bit :)
It's tough to say that they would catch this 98 times out of 100, because right now they're 0 for 1 in as long as I've been watching.
Also, I may be mistaken, but didn't the refs catch the Pens on that 6 on 5, and actually yell at someone on the ice to get off for like 20 seconds before they did? That seems to be my recollection, and part of why it was so controversial.

There really was no proof that the refs caught the pens, unless you qualify the linesman saying something to them to which ANYTHING could have been said. I prefer to work with facts, and not opinions when it comes to that.

You can bust my chops all you want. Its all good. :)
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#45 Nic

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:45 PM

It's not just the reffing that gets me worked up, per se. It's the whole treatment of the situation. The league clearly isn't taking it seriously at all. Not a word -at the very least- condemning Clowe's action regardless of disciplinary matter. BUT They say that they're SO concerned with every facet of the integrity of the game, but they let s*** like that slide? I mean I know he didn't throw a dirty hit or injure anyone, but given the circumstances they should have at least made him issue an apology. I mean they made Avery issue an apology -and suspended him- for off-ice comments about someones celebrity girlfriend. I think playing the puck from the bench in a game that's going to determine your playoff position and already getting away with it effects the integrity of the game a lot more than Avery being a smartass in an interview.

I'm not even calling for any disciplinary action on Clowe here, just for the league to do SOMETHING to acknowledge that it happened and it won't happen again.

The NHL is practically supporting it is what I mean. The headline on NHL.com is "Clowe stops odd-man rush from bench", which just links to a video of the whole thing, which they cutely titled "Stoll-en Goods" with the caption "Ryane Clowe pokes the puck away from Jarret Stoll while on the bench.". They give the whole matter 0 other context. They're practically insinuating that it was a LEGAL play. I know there's a specific rule against it in the rule book, but COME ON. I KNOW they don't support it, but the 'joking manner'/ ignoring/hands tied approach is not the right way to handle it, especially not at this point in the season.

As someone already stated, this close to the playoffs it makes me wonder what kind of new douchebaggery that they're going to allow...It's s*** like they way they're treating it that makes people reach for the tin foil and start crafting head gear is all I'm saying.

Edited by Nic, 06 April 2012 - 02:52 PM.


#46 Nightfall

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

Aside from the circumstances of the game, it's just mind boggling that the refs missed it.

A player reaching out into the field of play from the bench is a big deal. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it in all my years of watching hockey, certainly with no penalty called. I've seen guys get involved from the bench where there's scrums there. Holding sticks or going after a player, but never seen one actually put his stick over the boards and onto the ice to disrupt a play. And I've been watching hockey for 30 years.

Doing a quick search on youtube and google news really doesn't reveal anything like this happening before and the player getting away with it. Some news stories on players getting caught doing it though. I would chock this up to a situation where everyone just missed it. From the way they missed that too many men penalty back in the 09 finals, I am not surprised they missed this one.
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#47 Nightfall

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:53 PM

It's not just the reffing that gets me worked up, per se. It's the whole treatment of the situation. The league clearly isn't taking it seriously at all. Not a word -at the very least- condemning Clowe's action regardless of disciplinary matter. BUT They say that they're SO concerned with every facet of the integrity of the game, but they let s*** like that slide? I mean I know he didn't throw a dirty hit or injure anyone, but given the circumstances they should have at least made him issue an apology. I mean they made Avery issue an apology -and suspended him- for off-ice comments about someones celebrity girlfriend. I think playing the puck from the bench in a game that's going to determine your playoff position and already getting away with it effects the integrity of the game a lot more than Avery being a smartass in an interview.

I'm not even calling for any disciplinary action on Clowe here, just for the league to do SOMETHING to acknowledge that it happened and it won't happen again.

The NHL is practically supporting it is what I mean. The headline on NHL.com is "Clowe stops odd-man rush from bench", which just links to a video of the whole thing, which they cutely titled "Stoll-en Goods" with the caption "Ryane Clowe pokes the puck away from Jarret Stoll while on the bench.". They give the whole matter 0 other context. They're practically insinuating that it was a LEGAL play. I know there's a specific rule against it in the rule book, but COME ON.

As someone already stated, this close to the playoffs it makes me wonder what kind of new douchebaggery that they're going to allow...It's s*** like they way they're treating it that makes people reach for the tin foil and start crafting head gear is all I'm saying.

Can you tell me a situation in any of the major sports, where when a call was screwed up, that the league apologized for the reffing? Hell, remember the Jim Joyce safe call at first?



The league didn't apologize. Jim Joyce did though. On MLBs website, they advertised that the Tigers were one out away from a no-hitter. You don't think that is pretty distasteful considering it was human error that resulted in that being called out when he was clearly safe?

It seems that NO professional league out there is going to apologize for the reffing. At the same time, they all support their refs 100%. Even when shown it was a blown call, the MLB wouldn't overturn it. There are numerous other examples on youtube that I could show, but I think I made my point.

I am not excusing the behavior, but merely saying that this is not just the NHL here. Every major professional sports league has this problem.

Edited by Nightfall, 06 April 2012 - 02:57 PM.

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#48 Valas19

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:54 PM

Bottom line: I HATE the effing Sharks
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

#49 Nic

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:02 PM

Can you tell me a situation in any of the major sports, where when a call was screwed up, that the league apologized for the reffing? Hell, remember the Jim Joyce safe call at first?



Oh I totally get it and don't disagree, just continuing to vent my frustrations.
I just think it's equally maddening about the missed call as it is the fact that what Clowe did happened at all, and also the fact that the league is pretty much laughing at the fact that it all went down - publicly. It's just kind of a o.O at the culmination of it all.
Glad I don't watch other sports, tbh, the one is enough to raise my blood pressure. LOL

#50 Nightfall

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:04 PM

Oh I totally get it and don't disagree, just continuing to vent my frustrations.
I just think it's equally maddening about the missed call as it is the fact that what Clowe did happened at all, and also the fact that the league is pretty much laughing at the fact that it all went down - publicly. It's just kind of a o.O at the culmination of it all.
Glad I don't watch other sports, tbh, the one is enough to raise my blood pressure. LOL

Yea, it is inexcusable. No argument from me at all.
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#51 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:04 PM

But look at it objectively, there wasn't even a guarantee of anything on the play, it was illegal, he got away with it, plays like that happen ALL THE TIME, the only difference was this one was blatant and stupid. It is humorous, you are overreacting big time.

When has this ever happened in the NHL? Let alone ALL THE TIME?

I've never seen it or heard about it and I've been watching hockey a long time.

#52 uncle ovipositor

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:35 PM

As someone who is also a Kings fan, this makes me hate Clowe even more. Mostly because it's unbelievable that such a "Slapshot" like play could go unnoticed by the refs.

It also happened when the Kings were on a PP. So if the refs didn't have their heads up their asses it would've put the Kings on a 5 on 3, which is also why it was such idiotic move by Clowe.

I wouldn't find it funny that my team just got screwed out of a potential 5 on 3 in the ending moments of a game that going to choose who gets 3rd seed. I don't see anything funny about this, quite frankly I see it an insult to the game. Who does that at a level he's playing at?


Here's the thing: earlier in the game, Torey Mitchel was taken out of the game with a crosscheck from behind after carrying the puck into the King's zone. No call, he left the game. Losing one of the best PK guys from the team had a much bigger impact on the game than Clowe's play - enough so that the 27th-ranked PP got 4 goals in the game.

Or, there was the play where Clifford skated all the way across the ice to hit Couture from behind into the boards, taking him out for the remainder of the period (and I'm gonna bet out for Saturday as well). Clifford got 5, but they waived the misconduct at their discretion. Really?

It obviously should have been 2 minutes, but it wasn't. The only reason people are paying attention to Clowe's stupid penalty is because we've never seen it before. And it's hilarious that he got away with it.

#53 esteef

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 04:02 PM

I looked for the "shoo" and I didn't see it. :)

Guess I am qualified to be an NHL ref more than I thought. :)

There are better videos of the linesman actually motioning for the "extra" skater to get off the ice. Here's one where it's still difficult to see an actual motion by the linesman, but he is clearly right in front of the extra player who quickly skates to the bench.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKRaLdXys6g

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#54 DyingAlive

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:58 PM



Crazy that NOTHING came from this...
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#55 WingZNut13

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:04 PM

I saw this last night on Twitter and I was just astonished nothing happened. I don't see how the league lets this go. However, I'm not surprised it comes from an organization such as the Sharks.
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#56 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:04 PM

merged with existing thread.

#57 Krystal

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:21 PM

Can you tell me a situation in any of the major sports, where when a call was screwed up, that the league apologized for the reffing?


I thought the NHL came out and admitted that a goal by Vancouver (against US no less) should have been called off back in December. I can't seem to find the link to it anymore (NHL.com's website only goes back to January)

#58 evilzyme

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:33 PM

I thought the NHL came out and admitted that a goal by Vancouver (against US no less) should have been called off back in December. I can't seem to find the link to it anymore (NHL.com's website only goes back to January)


I can't find the article either, but I can vouge(sp?) for you that they said it shouldn't have counted because Howard wasn't given the opportunity to save the puck.

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#59 DyingAlive

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:16 PM

merged with existing thread.

Sorry about that, I looked before posting it, but I must have missed it!
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#60 Nightfall

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:28 PM

I can't find the article either, but I can vouge(sp?) for you that they said it shouldn't have counted because Howard wasn't given the opportunity to save the puck.

I seem to remember that, and I remember the reaction here was shock and awe. It just doesn't happen very often. Look at the MLB when they screwed the Tigers out of that no hitter last year. They never apologized, but Jim Joyce did.
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