What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?

[WingNut 25 5]

LeftWinger - any player can be traded. Ask Wayne Gretzky. Here's the problem with these armchair fantasy GMs: none of these trades make sense. Your theory is a guy who has a C on his sweater is better than someone you label soft, despite that aforementioned soft player scoring more goals and being far more proven come playoff time. Morrow's resume is far from a compelling case to be a "must get" guy. I see nothing wrong with adding fresh leadership but at what cost? Morrow fills no need beyond taking some other team's captain and helping add a new voice to the Detroit locker room. You really consider Morrow an upgrade over Mule in production? One of our greatest needs is more depth at forward an more goal scorers. Your fix is to trade one away and bring in less goals?

That's the theme of my posts: live within reason when suggesting moves. Nash will never get moved to Detroit because of the immense negativity that will carry for the Columbus franchise. Perry, Getzlaf or Ryan coul be moved but if you're on the other end of that deal as a GM, are you salivating at the prospect of trading one of those 3 for a Franzen or Filpulla and spare parts (I.E. Abby, Eaves, Kindl, etc). It took a 1st round pick to get Kyle Quincey. It's gonna take loads more than the lower tier guys and 1 of our stars mentioned to land any of the names I'm seeing.

[BamaWing 37]

How about Parise, Perry, Suter?

I'd have to guess it'd take A LOT to get Perry...

but I will say that if we did somehow get those 3, there's no doubt that'd push us right towards being favorites for the cup next year. That'd be a top 6 of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Perry, Parise, and the 6th doesn't even matter.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I'd have to guess it'd take A LOT to get Perry...

but I will say that if we did somehow get those 3, there's no doubt that'd push us right towards being favorites for the cup next year. That'd be a top 6 of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Perry, Parise, and the 6th doesn't even matter.

I think Franzen would be going back in a deal for perry along with Fil (they desperately need a great second line center) and then add on like Tatar or Abby and a first. Id still do it for Perry (a young right handed sniper with grit).

[BamaWing 37]

Yea it'd definitely have to be package with a skilled center like Fil.

I'd do it in a heartbeat though. Perry would give us so many things that we've missed. If any team brought in a duo of Parise and Perry that'd just be a crazy good haul of additions to a team.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

They really need another bottom 6 center. That would help a lot with their depth problems, unless everyone thinks Emmerton will be more improved next season.

[BamaWing 37]

They really need another bottom 6 center. That would help a lot with their depth problems, unless everyone thinks Emmerton will be more improved next season.

Bottom 6 tough, face-off specialist is a huge need. gaustad was huge difference maker in the series.

[pucktividi 472]

Parise,Prust,Suter...jack pot

Parenteau,Konopka,Garrison...bingo

[Dabura 12,207]

So say Perry costs Flip, Franzen, a fourth-liner/prospect...and I'll throw in a draft pick, because Perry's that good, and that important to the Ducks, and Holland really should be that interested in him, IMHO. And then say we also get Parise.

Parise - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Cleary/Nyquist - Zetterberg - Perry

I almost feel like I'm trolling.

[centcougar07 216]

I don't know, who would want to play with that Datsyuk guy? Terrible player.

An incredible player. But an aging one. He falls in the 'core' IMO. He's not getting any younger (turning 34 soon) and neither are the rest of the guys who have carried this team for the better part of a decade. And the prospects to replace them simply are not there. The sooner that realization is come to the better. This isn't THE destination for free agents; there are plenty of other teams that players want to play for. It's a little arrogant to just assume that top end FA's are going to come here because "it's Detroit and we have a tradition of winning". The future is a very uncertain thing for the Wings given the age of this team and there are a lot of other teams with much better futures. It's wrong to assume that this is just the place to be and FA's are certainly going to come to Detroit.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

LeftWinger - any player can be traded. Ask Wayne Gretzky. Here's the problem with these armchair fantasy GMs: none of these trades make sense. Your theory is a guy who has a C on his sweater is better than someone you label soft, despite that aforementioned soft player scoring more goals and being far more proven come playoff time. Morrow's resume is far from a compelling case to be a "must get" guy. I see nothing wrong with adding fresh leadership but at what cost? Morrow fills no need beyond taking some other team's captain and helping add a new voice to the Detroit locker room. You really consider Morrow an upgrade over Mule in production? One of our greatest needs is more depth at forward an more goal scorers. Your fix is to trade one away and bring in less goals?

That's the theme of my posts: live within reason when suggesting moves. Nash will never get moved to Detroit because of the immense negativity that will carry for the Columbus franchise. Perry, Getzlaf or Ryan coul be moved but if you're on the other end of that deal as a GM, are you salivating at the prospect of trading one of those 3 for a Franzen or Filpulla and spare parts (I.E. Abby, Eaves, Kindl, etc). It took a 1st round pick to get Kyle Quincey. It's gonna take loads more than the lower tier guys and 1 of our stars mentioned to land any of the names I'm seeing.

Yes, Morrow would fit in wonderfully on the 3rd line with Helm/Bertuzzi. He brings grit and leadership to this team, both of which Franzen has none of, and as for losing Franzen's scoring (a whole 56 points from our "sniper") I am replacing him with Parise and Semin (plus Morrow is only a season removed from his own 56 points.) So trading Franzen, Cleary and letting Holmstrom retire and Hudler walk, while bringing in Parise, Semin and Morrow, I would say that pretty much fills a ton of needs on the offensive front...So no, my "FIX" is not to just trade Franzen for Morrow (although yes, Morrow is an all around upgrade to Franzen) it's just a piece to the puzzle. If Parise and Semin are signed, then Franzen falls to 3rd line anyhow and on the 3rd line, Morrow is tons better than Franzen...

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Someone mentioned earlier about trading Stuart's rights, OMG! I never even thought about that! I just assumed he is leaving, he is leaving. How cool would it be to trade Stuart to San Jose for Clowe? If Stuart isn't enough, we can throw in Hudler as well. Shoot, why not?

[centcougar07 216]

Which teams, other than Detroit, can guarantee consistent success and bids to the playoffs?

Detroit is a promising destination no matter what the naysayers think.

Any team that has a good core and a good prospect pool (i.e. Florida, St. Louis, Edmonton, Minnesota, LA, etc.). I would say Detroit is more of a safe destination than a promising one. And don't be surprised if Detroit is struggling to get in the playoffs in 2-3 years. Work needs to be done on the prospect pool because right now, players looking to sign long term are not going to be best suited signing with Detroit

[BamaWing 37]

Someone mentioned earlier about trading Stuart's rights, OMG! I never even thought about that! I just assumed he is leaving, he is leaving. How cool would it be to trade Stuart to San Jose for Clowe? If Stuart isn't enough, we can throw in Hudler as well. Shoot, why not?

I like Stuart and want him to stay but as a GM id bait him out there if I couldn't get any heads up from him and/or his agent

[Carman 387]

Any team that has a good core and a good prospect pool (i.e. Florida, St. Louis, Edmonton, Minnesota, LA, etc.). I would say Detroit is more of a safe destination than a promising one. And don't be surprised if Detroit is struggling to get in the playoffs in 2-3 years. Work needs to be done on the prospect pool because right now, players looking to sign long term are not going to be best suited signing with Detroit

Our prospect pool isn't bad hell I believe it's in the top half of the league, I'll definitely take our prospect pool over Minnesota's for sure. Red Wings have the most respected front office in the league and to go along with a great coach. On the ice. The track record speaks for itself. I'm not saying we will get whoever we want, but a free agent isn't going to just cross out the Red Wings.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I like Stuart and want him to stay but as a GM id bait him out there if I couldn't get any heads up from him and/or his agent

Oh, he is going, his wife cannot come here unless her ex changes the terms of the custody. She can only live so far away from her ex because of their daughter. Stuart will be in California next season. Lets hope Holland trades his rights in order to get something for him!

[WingNut 25 5]

No one will trade for Stuart's rights knowing he'll only go to the West Coast. That means very few teams will even be in the running for his services when July 1 hits. The only teams remotely likely to give up anything (likely a low draft pick) are one of the 3 CA teams that want to get the jump on the other 2.

[WingNut 25 5]

Yes, Morrow would fit in wonderfully on the 3rd line with Helm/Bertuzzi. He brings grit and leadership to this team, both of which Franzen has none of, and as for losing Franzen's scoring (a whole 56 points from our "sniper") I am replacing him with Parise and Semin (plus Morrow is only a season removed from his own 56 points.) So trading Franzen, Cleary and letting Holmstrom retire and Hudler walk, while bringing in Parise, Semin and Morrow, I would say that pretty much fills a ton of needs on the offensive front...So no, my "FIX" is not to just trade Franzen for Morrow (although yes, Morrow is an all around upgrade to Franzen) it's just a piece to the puzzle. If Parise and Semin are signed, then Franzen falls to 3rd line anyhow and on the 3rd line, Morrow is tons better than Franzen...

.

Morrow is not an upgrade. I'm sorry but you'll never convince me of that. Morrow will be 34 next January and scored a whoppin 26 points this season in 57 games, all while bringing in a cap hit of $4.1 million through next season. You want to bring him on board? Wait until you can sign him next offseason for a fraction of his current salary. He fits right in that 3rd line mold but for Franzen in trade? Come on. That's the dumbest trade proposed yet. Franzen is younger (though granted not by much) and had 56 points this year with a smaller cap hit (again not by much but cap space is valuable no matter how much). In today's NHL, I'll take Franzen any day.

The Wings will go all in on Parise no doubt but why go after an underachiever w/ a bad attitude in Semin? You posted at length on the need for leadership in your proposed plan and why it's wise the Wings dump Mule for Morrow yet completely do an about face to bring in Semin and his awful attitude. I'm sorry but I'll keep Mule over Semin. Your posting is the type of short sighted, ill informed fantasy GM-ing that's good for nothing more than a laugh. At least do some homework before posting.

Edited April 24, 2012 by WingNut 25

[Dabura 12,207]

Your posting is the type of short sighted, ill informed fantasy GM-ing that's good for nothing more than a laugh. At least do some homework before posting.

Dude, lighten up.

[WingNut 25 5]

No need to. This is the "general discussion" forum is it not? So we're all having a discussion and that isn't always gonna be high fives and hugs. There's far too much laughable fantasy hockey GM talk going on. It's far more interesting to have factual discussion. Save the "Franzen for Morrow" junk for NHL 12 or fantasy hockey.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

In today's NHL, I'll take Franzen any day.

...and you will get results like the last three years every time.

I'm sorry but I'll keep Mule over Semin. Your posting is the type of short sighted, ill informed fantasy GM-ing that's good for nothing more than a laugh. At least do some homework before posting.

Me not do homework? You act like I am just throwing names out there. Semin (dont know where he gets the bad work ethic label from) even with his "bad work ethic" he is a prolific scorer and was 2nd in scoring behind Ovechkin this year and is currently 4th in playoff scoring for Washington and leads them in goals. Semin and Datsyuk are wondrous together when they play for Russia in any type of National tournament.

Homework on a player doesn't mean just hearing things like "he is lazy" from disgruntled fans or he is a "floater." It's not always about "The Best" player you can get, you have to build your team based on chemistry. Drew Miller was put on waivers when Detroit picked him up. Obviously a certain team thought he was not good enough to keep around, yet he comes to Detroit and fills a role needed and becomes a very important part of a bottom six that at one point (when healthy) was arguably the best bottom six in the NHL. Morrow would only make that bottom six better as would Bertuzzi. Adding Parise and Semin in the top six would make Datsyuk and Zetterberg look that much better and play that much better. Franzen has grown stale, and honestly, if you are talking about "lazy" and "attitude" I really do not want someone playing for MY team who says he gets so bored in the regular season that he mails it in on occasion. Then to follow it up with consecutive post seasons like this? I am spending the $100,000 more for a player that actually has heart and puts himself out there every single game 100%. Hey, if it takes less to get Morrow, then super, but Morrow is the type of third line player this team needs. If it doesn't take Franzen to get him, then I am trading Franzen for another player that will make this team better. Franzen is horrible and he proved it by his statements and his play. Hell even Boyd the void had a good season playing with Datsyuk one year...

[LeftWinger 4,953]

No need to. This is the "general discussion" forum is it not? So we're all having a discussion and that isn't always gonna be high fives and hugs. There's far too much laughable fantasy hockey GM talk going on. It's far more interesting to have factual discussion. Save the "Franzen for Morrow" junk for NHL 12 or fantasy hockey.

again, this team with Morrow, Parise and Semin on it is FAR superior than having Franzen, Cleary, Hudler. You can have Franzen all you want, I cannot convince you of Morrow, but you don't have to convince me of Franzen, he proves time and time again that he is lazy and has no heart. He needs to go play in a league that has 40-50 games in the regular season, because after that point he is horrible. And his performance the last two playoffs? He isn't worth Helm's salary. And that is FACT. So you can talk down to someone else about not doing homework or not seeing the facts. Facts are this...Red Wings in its current state is a stale hockey club and Franzen is a big reason why...he just proved it....yet again. Time for change.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

No one will trade for Stuart's rights knowing he'll only go to the West Coast. That means very few teams will even be in the running for his services when July 1 hits. The only teams remotely likely to give up anything (likely a low draft pick) are one of the 3 CA teams that want to get the jump on the other 2.

Don't let the facts get in the way...you just answered your own observation. Sure everyone in the NHL knows he is going to California, but there are three teams in California who would love his services. San Jose needs a knew identity, Anaheim is looking for a top 2 defenseman since Niedermayer retired for good. Los Angeles may be a piece or two away from making a serious run at the Cup. So even though a trade scenario would probably only involve three teams, if all three of those teams want him, then you may be able to get something of value in return. Ryan Clowe may be a stretch, but if all three teams are interested, he will get us more than a lower round draft pick. Quincey garnered a 1st round pick, Stuart is a bit more valuable than Quincey on the market...Fact.

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

again, this team with Morrow, Parise and Semin on it is FAR superior than having Franzen, Cleary, Hudler. You can have Franzen all you want, I cannot convince you of Morrow, but you don't have to convince me of Franzen, he proves time and time again that he is lazy and has no heart. He needs to go play in a league that has 40-50 games in the regular season, because after that point he is horrible. And his performance the last two playoffs? He isn't worth Helm's salary. And that is FACT. So you can talk down to someone else about not doing homework or not seeing the facts. Facts are this...Red Wings in its current state is a stale hockey club and Franzen is a big reason why...he just proved it....yet again. Time for change.

I like Morrow's heart but he seems broken down and injury prone at this stage of his career. Guys, Kenny is not moving Franzen. While it is frustrating as hell to watch the Mule float around like he's a swedish ballerina, he is still our best goal scorer. We need MORE goal scoring. Not less. His Cap hit does not kill us. It's 4 mil a year. I know us Wings fans always need our couple of scapegoats to pick on but you only need to look at Kenny's past history as a GM that moving Franzen is not likely to happen. Kenny does not make many trades anymore. When he does it's usually acquiring players for draft picks like Stuart and Quincey. His last impact trade was in the summer of 2001 when he traded for Hasek and gave up Kozlov and a 1st. That was 11 years ago. So why is he now going to trade Franzen? Does anyone seeing us getting back a 30-40 goal scorer in return? I don't. For those who think Mule and Flip will get us Corey Perry, it will not happen. Perry is a Hart Trophy winner who has won a Cup and is just entering his prime years. Why would the Ducks deal him for a floating and underachieving Swede who is locked into a massive long term contract? Plus a 2nd line centre whos contract is up after next season in Flip. It makes no sense.

If Kenny can sign Parise then it takes alot of pressure off Mule. I think he will actually be a better player having some scoring help on the Wings. Parise plays with Dats and Mule plays with Z. That's a solid top 4 group of forwards. This makes it tougher for other teams to match up against. Hey I have a love-hate thing with Mule. I know how valuable he can be and I also know how lazy he can be. But for 4 mil a season, I keep him and hope I get more GOOD MULE than BAD MULE.

[paulwoodsfan 52]

. . . you don't have to convince me of Franzen, he proves time and time again that he is lazy and has no heart. He needs to go play in a league that has 40-50 games in the regular season, because after that point he is horrible. And his performance the last two playoffs? He isn't worth Helm's salary. And that is FACT. So you can talk down to someone else about not doing homework or not seeing the facts. Facts are this...Red Wings in its current state is a stale hockey club and Franzen is a big reason why...he just proved it....yet again. Time for change.

And yet somehow Kenny is going to convince someone to take him -- and his eight more years, $27.5M owing -- off our hands? Get back to us when that becomes a fact.

Ryan Clowe may be a stretch, but if all three teams are interested, he will get us more than a lower round draft pick. Quincey garnered a 1st round pick, Stuart is a bit more valuable than Quincey on the market...Fact.

Uh, no. Neither guy is an all-star. One is a soon-to-be UFA aged 32, the other a signed player aged 26. The former is NOT more valuable in the trade market than the latter. There is zero chance the Wings could get a first-rounder for Stuart, and Clowe is even farther from reality.

[VM1138 1,921]

The Wings are still a prime destination. Early playoff exits didn't deter the likes of Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille and Dominik Hasek from coming here in 2002. And we've got a lot of money to throw around this season.