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LeonardSankar

What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?

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Do you guys think that with the emergence of OEL phx would be willing to trade gormley or murphy for forward talent? They currently have yandle, OEL, gormley, murphy, summers all as very good young guys and the last 3 arent even in the nhl. I could see one of them being moved for help at forward next season as their blueline will get crowded very soon. Thoughts?

Edmonton is crying for defensive help and has a #1 pick in June to offer up. If I'm Phoenix's GM, that's my first call.

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Really?

Did anyone predict Ericsson's payday last summer?

That was a panic move made in house to make sure Ericsson didn't make it to free agency and so he wouldn't lose a young defenseman for nothing. Besides, I don't think that he has been that overpaid based on how he played this season.

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Think the Isles would do Kindl for Martin straight up?

Martin would be amazing for the Wings. However, IMO he is the type of player that has an extremely high 'team value'. That is, like Helm, he would require a lopsided trade (not necessarily a large overpayment) to acquire. With that said, a package of Mule+Kindl for Martin+(good prospect, high picks) may be right value-wise.

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We should start to turn our focus to getting younger and lining the prospect pool with more talent and high end assets. IMO, we should be starting to get younger and definitely not trade away any picks. We don't have a ton of prospects that I would consider untouchable. Minus Jurco, Nyquist, and Smith, considering they are the closest thing we have to top prospects. If we start to get younger now it will lessen the blow in 2-3 years when we're really going to have to look at rebuilding.

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We should start to turn our focus to getting younger and lining the prospect pool with more talent and high end assets. IMO, we should be starting to get younger and definitely not trade away any picks. We don't have a ton of prospects that I would consider untouchable. Minus Jurco, Nyquist, and Smith, considering they are the closest thing we have to top prospects. If we start to get younger now it will lessen the blow in 2-3 years when we're really going to have to look at rebuilding.

I'd definitely add Jarnkrok to that list. He's the best prospect we have IMO.

And the Wings don't rebuild, they reload.

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True. But, like you said, he won't part with them. Wasn't it just a day or two ago that he was quoted as saying our prospect pool is the key to our future success, or some facepalm s*** like that?

meeehhhhhhhhh

Check your calendar dude. Drafting and internal growth are the only way to success in the post-cap era.

I'd definitely add Jarnkrok to that list. He's the best prospect we have IMO.

And the Wings don't rebuild, they reload.

The only guys ahead of Jarnkrok are Smith and Nyquist and that's arguably because they're farther ahead on the development curve. Ironhook is one hell of kid. I can't wait to see what he can do with NHL size and some time in NA under his belt.

Add Mrazek to the stud list as well. Anyone who doubts him definitely didn't watch the World Juniors this year.

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If the Wings don't hit the jackpot and sign Parise and/or Suter, then they're better off waiting until the trade deadline, which is deeper than usual, and just adding pieces at that point.

The Wings need to add a top 3 forward and a top 2 defenseman to remain competitive. No exceptions.

Edited by FunkedUp

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Guest Crymson

If the Wings don't hit the jackpot and sign Parise and/or Suter, then they're better off waiting until the trade deadline, which is deeper than usual, and just adding pieces at that point.

The Wings need to add a top 3 forward and a top 2 defenseman to remain competitive. No exceptions.

There's no way to determine the depth of the trade deadline pool until the deadline is near.

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Check your calendar dude. Drafting and internal growth are the only way to success in the post-cap era.

The only guys ahead of Jarnkrok are Smith and Nyquist and that's arguably because they're farther ahead on the development curve. Ironhook is one hell of kid. I can't wait to see what he can do with NHL size and some time in NA under his belt.

Add Mrazek to the stud list as well. Anyone who doubts him definitely didn't watch the World Juniors this year.

Definitely this

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Check your calendar dude. Drafting and internal growth are the only way to success in the post-cap era.

It's not what was said, it's who said it. Holland trades away draft picks like they're candy. And as for prospects - veteran roster + "over-ripe" pool. And this summer he'll be looking to add around 3 FAs to the roster.

Edited by Dabura

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I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

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I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

e26.gif

I guess the Hockey News voting Smith in the top 20 prospects in the entire league doesn't count. :lol:

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Centcougar, have you came up with that resource that has the Red Wings as one of the worst prospect pools yet? I'm still waiting. You're entitled to your opinion and prospects are almost always a gamble, but you are extremely diligent in your position, and I'm extremely curious on how you came to your conclusions. You said you are friends with a pro scout, I'm sure you can link me some good stuff so I can broaden my knowledge of prospects.

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Well, now since I have had time to calm a bit down from my disappointment for the Wings this season, and since the Cap may go up to $70M, I have re-tooled my 2012-13 roster a bit. I have left Franzen alone and re-signed Lids too. But it is imparative that Suter and Parise get signed!

Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.250m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.500m)

Ian White ($2.875m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Tomas Vokoun ($1.250m)

------

SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,142,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,357,955

If Eaves isn't gonna be healthy, then get Moen for $1.5M. The only thing I didn't do was re-sign Quincey. I didn't want to make Smith #7 and there is NO WAY Ericsson or Quincey will be #7, not for the cash they will be making. Offer Quincey $3M, if he wants more, I will be glad to acquire the #1 and #3 draft pick for him.

edit: negged? Guess you don't want Suter, Parise AND Lidstrom? Ok then....sure would like to hear your ideas...

Edited by LeftWinger

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e26.gif

I guess the Hockey News voting Smith in the top 20 prospects in the entire league doesn't count. :lol:

I didn't say none of them were elite. Just not that many. I like Smith, he made a huge jump this year in my mind. I also mentioned a number of other prospects I like.

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I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

You'd think the fact that Sweden is using him on their World Championship roster over several NHL players that he's one of the better prospects out there.

He's also dominating the faceoff circle over there winning over 60% of his draws. That would be a nice addition to the Wings puck possession style of hockey.

As far as the Wings ability to build internally through the draft, show me a team with more players on their roster they drafted and developed. Nashville might be the only one who compares and I believe they are tied.

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Centcougar, have you came up with that resource that has the Red Wings as one of the worst prospect pools yet? I'm still waiting. You're entitled to your opinion and prospects are almost always a gamble, but you are extremely diligent in your position, and I'm extremely curious on how you came to your conclusions. You said you are friends with a pro scout, I'm sure you can link me some good stuff so I can broaden my knowledge of prospects.

It definitely not one the WORST prospect pools, but it's very average. That's my overall opinion but the shelves aren't TOTALLY bare. I am very confident in my assessment of the prospects, however I do most of my assessing from researching the prospects numbers and watching them play etc. I maybe wouldn't say friends, but we do talk occasionally when he has time and I pick at his brain as much as I can. I'll try and get some direct quotes from him and put them on here when I can. Hopefully before the draft. Also, Hockey's future had the Wings at 15 in November but that board is really old and a lot of it is outdated. I'm guessing when they release the rankings after the Draft in June, the Wings will be somewhere around 18,19,20.

I think Smith is top 2 defensive pairing talent. I think Nyquist could be a top 3 forward but most likely a second line guy. He tends to chase the puck a lot from what I've seen but he does give it 100% effort every shift and that makes him valuable to the Wings because they have often lacked a gritty player with scoring ability. Tatar is definitely the best offensive talent. He has raw scoring ability but he also has the potential to be a huge bust. Also, Pulkkinen has a lot of potential but I think he is probably a second line talent and who knows if his game will translate to the NHL. Beyond that we have a lot of B and C grade prospects that will be 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pairing D men. Again, this is all my opinion and others can make their assessments but this is just my view. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes; I know this isn't what people want to hear even though I certainly don't claim to be an expert.. But I do think I have a decent hockey mind.

Edited by centcougar07

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It definitely not one the WORST prospect pools, but it's very average. That's my overall opinion but the shelves aren't TOTALLY bare. I am very confident in my assessment of the prospects, however I do most of my assessing from researching the prospects numbers and watching them play etc. I maybe wouldn't say friends, but we do talk occasionally when he has time and I pick at his brain as much as I can. I'll try and get some direct quotes from him and put them on here when I can. Hopefully before the draft. Also, Hockey's future had the Wings at 15 in November but that board is really old and a lot of it is outdated. I'm guessing when they release the rankings after the Draft in June, the Wings will be somewhere around 18,19,20.

I think Smith is top 2 defensive pairing talent. I think Nyquist could be a top 3 forward but most likely a second line guy. He tends to chase the puck a lot from what I've seen but he does give it 100% effort every shift and that makes him valuable to the Wings because they have often lacked a gritty player with scoring ability. Tatar is definitely the best offensive talent. He has raw scoring ability but he also has the potential to be a huge bust. Also, Pulkkinen has a lot of potential but I think he is probably a second line talent and who knows if his game will translate to the NHL. Beyond that we have a lot of B and C grade prospects that will be 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pairing D men. Again, this is all my opinion and others can make their assessments but this is just my view. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes; I know this isn't what people want to hear even though I certainly don't claim to be an expert.. But I do think I have a decent hockey mind.

You missed Jarnkrok, Jurco and Mrazek. Jurco has more pure offensive talent than Tatar but obviously needs to show he can succeed in the AHL like Tatar has.

Sheahan has the potential to be a big piece as well. With his size, strength and offense upside he'll be an important piece in the future (big, strong defensive centres who can chip in some offense are valuable commodities, especially when they are strong in the face-off circle).

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Going forward, I think Sproul and Ouellet have a chance to prove themselves to be real studs this coming season. Both had fantastic years in junior and likely will spend next year in jr where they'll be expected to take another step. Quine and Tvrdon may be in GR next season where they'll have a shot to prove they can score at the professional level. Quine will be exciting for his retarded skating ability alone, although he's a former 2nd overall OHL draft choice I doubt he'll be anything too amazing offensively next year. Having his skating skill is still nice. Tvrdon excites me because he's a big guy who can still get bigger and he has legitimate top-6 offensive talent. I hope he makes a smooth transition to the AHL and stays healthy.

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You missed Jarnkrok, Jurco and Mrazek. Jurco has more pure offensive talent than Tatar but obviously needs to show he can succeed in the AHL like Tatar has.

Sheahan has the potential to be a big piece as well. With his size, strength and offense upside he'll be an important piece in the future (big, strong defensive centres who can chip in some offense are valuable commodities, especially when they are strong in the face-off circle).

I didn't miss them I just didn't put them in there because IMO they don't belong there.

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Going forward, I think Sproul and Ouellet have a chance to prove themselves to be real studs this coming season. Both had fantastic years in junior and likely will spend next year in jr where they'll be expected to take another step. Quine and Tvrdon may be in GR next season where they'll have a shot to prove they can score at the professional level. Quine will be exciting for his retarded skating ability alone, although he's a former 2nd overall OHL draft choice I doubt he'll be anything too amazing offensively next year. Having his skating skill is still nice. Tvrdon excites me because he's a big guy who can still get bigger and he has legitimate top-6 offensive talent. I hope he makes a smooth transition to the AHL and stays healthy.

Sproul and Ouellet are as close as stud dman in the making as you can find outside of the top 10 picks in the draft. Both have size and put up great offensive numbers. I'd bet both of these guys will crack the top 6 within the next 4-5 years.

To think that Jarnkrok and Jurco don't belong in the same sentence as pulks and tatar is crazy. Jarnkrok is for sure considered more of a sure thing than pulks and Jurco already has the size and skill to play in the nhl but needs time to develop properly into a top 6 player. Sheahan is iffy for me. Not sure if he will develop into a top 6 player just because he doesn't have the scoring touch i'd expect at the collegiate level (not enough games in AHL yet to see).

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Tvrdon is the dark horse here, he has the makings of being a true power forward. 6'2" and 220lb already with him on the LW and Jurco on the RW all they need is a big centre to form a potential 2nd line for the Wings in maybe 2-3 years. Maybe Joakim Andersson with his size would be a fit? Future looks ok to me, the scouts will un earth another diamond in the rough i have no doubt.

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Sproul and Ouellet are as close as stud dman in the making as you can find outside of the top 10 picks in the draft. Both have size and put up great offensive numbers. I'd bet both of these guys will crack the top 6 within the next 4-5 years.

To think that Jarnkrok and Jurco don't belong in the same sentence as pulks and tatar is crazy. Jarnkrok is for sure considered more of a sure thing than pulks and Jurco already has the size and skill to play in the nhl but needs time to develop properly into a top 6 player. Sheahan is iffy for me. Not sure if he will develop into a top 6 player just because he doesn't have the scoring touch i'd expect at the collegiate level (not enough games in AHL yet to see).

The best part with Sheahan is he's only 19 years old and he's got the strength/body of an NHL player and can play excellent defensive hockey (which is one of the toughest things for young guys to learn). With his natural offensive talent makes him one of those guys with the tools to break out at any time (don't forget he was considered a potential lottery pick the year before his draft but his move to the defense-first ND system hurt his production... I doubt he'd have fallen to us if he played junior his draft year). For us, though, if he only ends up as a big, strong defensive centre with good hands he's still a valuable piece because he has excellent size and can skate very well. Big centres who can skate and play excellent defensive hockey are the kind of players Babcock drools over.

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