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What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?


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#461 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:48 AM

I heard Jimmy D say recently that the Wings will not be aggressive on July 1st because the Minnesota Wild are going to be signing Parise and Suter and maybe even trading for Rick Nash. Apparently every player in the NHL wants to play for the Wild because of their blue chip Hall of Fame prospects. We have to get used another Dead Wings Era or Darkness with Harkness because the future is not very good. Datsyuk will be washed up in 2 years, Zetterberg can't even bend over to tie his skate laces with his bad back. Lidstrom will retire because I said so. It's a fact. Why the hell would he want to come back? Especially since he could just sign with the greatest team ever assembled, the Minnesota Wild for a season? Howard is a career back-up goalie. Filppula should not even be in the league. Franzen looks like he should be in Ice Capades. Helm can no longer skate because he was injured. It is a fact because I say so. Abdelkader, Eaves and Miller would not even make the Wild's talent rich roster. Bertuzzi and Cleary are no longer effective. Nyquist and Smith are B level prospects and will have no impact whatsoever. Ericsson and White should not be in the league they are so bad. It's not looking very good for the Red Wings next season. The core is old and slow. They are lazy and they suck. Holland should be fired and Babs should be replaced. I think Mike Modano would be a good replacement because he is from Minnesota. He knows what it takes to win, just like everyone in Minnesota does. They were the best team in the league before injuries hit them. You see no other teams in the NHL had injuries. Only Minnesota did. Had they been healthy, they likely would have won the Cup. I heard that the Wild are very worried that in 20 years time, there will be no sweaters to give to the players because their jerseys will all be retired as they will all be entering the Hall of Fame at once. At least they have time to prepare for it. Minnesota has already declared June to be STANLEY CUP CHAMPION MONTH as they plan on having Cup parades each year for the next 20 years. In fact I just heard that Gary Bettman is instituting new rules but only for the Minnesota Wild in preparation for their sheer future dominance. The Wild will only receive 1 minute power plays. Their opponents are to be staked to 2-0 leads at the start of each game. Also the Wild are not allowed to ever be in 4 on 4 situations. Barack Obama has just issued a statement saying that the White House will be building their very own MIINNESOTA WILD WING. It will be next to the KENNEDY ROOM. He figures that since Minnesota will be winning the Cup each season that they may as well have their own room in the White House. I am hearing that the White House may be changed to the WILD HOUSE. Just remember Wings fans, these are all FACTS because I say they are. No one wants to play for the Detroit Red Wings. EVER!

Edited by Hatethedrake!, 03 May 2012 - 09:07 AM.

Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#462 F.Michael

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:53 AM

Adding one single top 6 forward is not suddenly going to make us a cup team. With all do respect, that's just absurd.

I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic. It's not like I don't want the Wings to win now but the reality is this: Declining on ice product/aging core of players + average prospect pool = time to rebuild soon. That's how it works in every pro sport. At least some variation of it.

Agreed - although I'm both a pessimist, and a realist :lol:

One player isn't gonna add that much - it'll take a handful IMO...There's not many players under the age of 25 on this roster, or in GR that'll carry this team the way Nick/Dats/Hank has; those 3 are what we have left of any semblance of what was once a "powerhouse" in the NHL, and 2 of those 3 aren't what they were just a few years ago.

At the time I was pleased when Holland inked Bert for 2 more seasons; now after further review it wasn't such a great move - unless of course ya like his antics of taking his toys away from those nasty Preds...What alot of good that did.

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#463 centcougar07

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:42 PM

Agreed - although I'm both a pessimist, and a realist :lol:

One player isn't gonna add that much - it'll take a handful IMO...There's not many players under the age of 25 on this roster, or in GR that'll carry this team the way Nick/Dats/Hank has; those 3 are what we have left of any semblance of what was once a "powerhouse" in the NHL, and 2 of those 3 aren't what they were just a few years ago.

At the time I was pleased when Holland inked Bert for 2 more seasons; now after further review it wasn't such a great move - unless of course ya like his antics of taking his toys away from those nasty Preds...What alot of good that did.


Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.

#464 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:08 PM

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.

No, not a Dynasty, but FAR better than last season's hot garbage...

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#465 Crymson

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:09 PM

No, not a Dynasty, but FAR better than last season's hot garbage...


Only a completely spoiled fan could call last season complete garbage. It's interesting how the very consistent success of the guy (Holland) whom you so revile is what makes you expect so much out of him. Try showing some appreciation.

#466 VM1138

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:10 PM

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.


I know you guys are just trying to be realistic, but honestly, do you realize how much better this Wings team would have been if they had someone who could pot an extra goal every other game this season? A huge chunk of their games were one goal games. I think one forward, if he's the right player, absolutely would make this team a lock for a deep playoff run. And maybe a fourth line center.
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#467 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:21 PM

Only a completely spoiled fan could call last season complete garbage. It's interesting how the very consistent success of the guy (Holland) whom you so revile is what makes you expect so much out of him. Try showing some appreciation.

didn't say "complete" garbage...but for the most part, outside of the streak, it was hot garbage. Power play was horrendous, penalty kill horrifying, they played very bad on the road all season, defense was very suspect all season, the players who were supposed to help carry this team, disappeared (one to be expected) and for being the "best" team at home, they couldn't win at home when it counted....Hot Garbage. I do appreciate things, but I cannot accept this crap for a team I am so passionate about.

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#468 Doc Holliday

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.


Nobody is calling for a dynasty. They are saying Detroit is still a place players want to play (The last poll put them just a hair under 1st place Chicago under teams players would most want to play for) andwith the amount of cap space Detroit has to work with they can overpay for guys like Parise and even try to entice them with a package deal for the two of them. Not to mention adding some more gritty players and the team that would have been 4th in the conference (if not for St. Louis surprising everyone they would have been in first) if not for key injuries at the worst times will turn into a team that is back to a contender again.

You don't know how good Detroit's younger players are going to be until they get to that level. We have yet to see how much of an impact guys like Smith, Tatar, Nyquist, and others will be until they mature on the Wings roster. Did the same thing to Fil, Franner, Zets, Dats, and Huddles.

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#469 centcougar07

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

I know you guys are just trying to be realistic, but honestly, do you realize how much better this Wings team would have been if they had someone who could pot an extra goal every other game this season? A huge chunk of their games were one goal games. I think one forward, if he's the right player, absolutely would make this team a lock for a deep playoff run. And maybe a fourth line center.


Certainly, Parise makes any team better. He's an elite player, even beyond the numbers he puts up. But one player won't make the difference for this team. It's not that simple, especially not in the long term.

#470 centcougar07

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:35 PM

Nobody is calling for a dynasty. They are saying Detroit is still a place players want to play (The last poll put them just a hair under 1st place Chicago under teams players would most want to play for) andwith the amount of cap space Detroit has to work with they can overpay for guys like Parise and even try to entice them with a package deal for the two of them. Not to mention adding some more gritty players and the team that would have been 4th in the conference (if not for St. Louis surprising everyone they would have been in first) if not for key injuries at the worst times will turn into a team that is back to a contender again.

You don't know how good Detroit's younger players are going to be until they get to that level. We have yet to see how much of an impact guys like Smith, Tatar, Nyquist, and others will be until they mature on the Wings roster. Did the same thing to Fil, Franner, Zets, Dats, and Huddles.


Well of course it is.. But it's no longer THE place. That's what most people here don't realize. They think it's going to be ever so easy to entice Parise and Suter to come here. There are other things and other factors they will consider. Having a "winning tradition" is all well and good. As is having a couple players who have done great things in their careers (even if they are on the back end of them). But at the end of the day, they are going to be hotly contested FA's and we know Holland won't overpay. He never has and never will, even if it's necessary. And I don't blame him, it's time to start thinking about rebuilding in a couple years, not just reloading like we've become accustomed to.

And all the prospects you mentioned are middle of the road, second or third line forwards/d men. Smith has the most promise IMO, but having one top D man and a whole bunch of average prospects isn't going to help much. When Datsyuk and Z were coming up, they exceeded expectations and came out of nowhere after being drafted. The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely. Maybe yours is different, and that's fine.. But I stick to my opinion. It's going to be hard to get Parise and Suter here (either one, let alone both). All these ideas you're throwing out are great, sure they would be awesome if they happened. But will they?.. Probably not.

P.S. I'n not sure what poll you are referring to.

#471 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:01 AM

Problem with this is that you're assuming Parise takes a million dollars less per year just to come here. I don't see that happening. And I think were Parise goes, Suter goes. That's the ***** of it; and we know Kenny Holland won't pony up the dough that other teams will.



Parise and Suter will not take 6.5. It just won't happen.


You're really struggling with the concept of term. Players are willing to take smaller cap hit contracts that are front-loaded and long term. I'm surprised this is news to you...
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#472 F.Michael

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:11 AM

You're really struggling with the concept of term. Players are willing to take smaller cap hit contracts that are front-loaded and long term. I'm surprised this is news to you...

Well - the reality is that these 6 plus year front-loaded deals may become extinct with the next CBA - however the last time I checked July 1st comes before September 15th so there may be some "wiggle room", and grandfather clauses.

My concern is that both Suter, and Parise see Detroit as a team in decline, and opt for a team with whom they feel has a greater number of players in their prime, and not in their twilight.

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#473 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:21 AM

The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely.


:rotflmao:

Either you live in a world where the last 3 NHL drafts didn't happen or you're on meth. The last two drafts have been very, very good by the Wings.

Honestly, you're either or troll or psychologically incapable of grasping reality. Go back and look at the last WJC scoring numbers and check out who was named the tournament's top goaltender. Cross reference that with last year's draft choices by the Wings. While you're at it why not google Hobey Baker and take a look for the names Nyquist and Smith in the list of the top 3 vote getters in the relevant years. Oh, and check out the QMJHL playoff scoring numbers. Hockey's Future has 6 Wings prospects rated 7.5 or higher and 12 listed at 7.0 or higher. 9 of those players are from the last 3 drafts. The worst HF can say is that our prospects with elite skill all have various question marks beside them... well that's exactly what happens when you draft in the bottom third of every round for 20 years. Yet somehow the Wings scouting team has made it work. So either the future is grim and current management is a group of guys who got lucky a bunch of times but are about to roll a bunch of snake eyes or things just might work out.

I'm glad that you claim to share your opinion with 'a lot' of league scouts but I think I'll call bulls***.

Regardless, if you read all the positive news about Wings prospects and still think the future is grim there are 29 other teams you can cheer for.

Well - the reality is that these 6 plus year front-loaded deals may become extinct with the next CBA - however the last time I checked July 1st comes before September 15th so there may be some "wiggle room", and grandfather clauses.

My concern is that both Suter, and Parise see Detroit as a team in decline, and opt for a team with whom they feel has a greater number of players in their prime, and not in their twilight.


Judging by the latest NHLPA poll it's clear that Datsyuk is extremely highly though of among players. If it weren't for that we'd probably be in more trouble. It's also a bit worrying that the Devils are still going strong in the post-season but we have to assume that whatever caused Parise to sign his 1 year 'get me out of here' deal is still a factor (disagreement with management?).
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#474 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:41 AM

I should be clearer here: this summer isn't "OMG SUTER AND PARISE OR BUST!". It's: "significant roster improvement or bust". Suter and Parise aren't the only players in the league. There are plenty of great forwards and defensemen who can be traded for.
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#475 55fan

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:31 AM

I heard Jimmy D say recently that the Wings will not be aggressive on July 1st because the Minnesota Wild are going to be signing Parise and Suter and maybe even trading for Rick Nash. Apparently every player in the NHL wants to play for the Wild because of their blue chip Hall of Fame prospects. We have to get used another Dead Wings Era or Darkness with Harkness because the future is not very good. Datsyuk will be washed up in 2 years, Zetterberg can't even bend over to tie his skate laces with his bad back. Lidstrom will retire because I said so. It's a fact. Why the hell would he want to come back? Especially since he could just sign with the greatest team ever assembled, the Minnesota Wild for a season? Howard is a career back-up goalie. Filppula should not even be in the league. Franzen looks like he should be in Ice Capades. Helm can no longer skate because he was injured. It is a fact because I say so. Abdelkader, Eaves and Miller would not even make the Wild's talent rich roster. Bertuzzi and Cleary are no longer effective. Nyquist and Smith are B level prospects and will have no impact whatsoever. Ericsson and White should not be in the league they are so bad. It's not looking very good for the Red Wings next season. The core is old and slow. They are lazy and they suck. Holland should be fired and Babs should be replaced. I think Mike Modano would be a good replacement because he is from Minnesota. He knows what it takes to win, just like everyone in Minnesota does. They were the best team in the league before injuries hit them. You see no other teams in the NHL had injuries. Only Minnesota did. Had they been healthy, they likely would have won the Cup. I heard that the Wild are very worried that in 20 years time, there will be no sweaters to give to the players because their jerseys will all be retired as they will all be entering the Hall of Fame at once. At least they have time to prepare for it. Minnesota has already declared June to be STANLEY CUP CHAMPION MONTH as they plan on having Cup parades each year for the next 20 years. In fact I just heard that Gary Bettman is instituting new rules but only for the Minnesota Wild in preparation for their sheer future dominance. The Wild will only receive 1 minute power plays. Their opponents are to be staked to 2-0 leads at the start of each game. Also the Wild are not allowed to ever be in 4 on 4 situations. Barack Obama has just issued a statement saying that the White House will be building their very own MIINNESOTA WILD WING. It will be next to the KENNEDY ROOM. He figures that since Minnesota will be winning the Cup each season that they may as well have their own room in the White House. I am hearing that the White House may be changed to the WILD HOUSE. Just remember Wings fans, these are all FACTS because I say they are. No one wants to play for the Detroit Red Wings. EVER!

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#476 FlashyG

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:06 AM

And all the prospects you mentioned are middle of the road, second or third line forwards/d men. Smith has the most promise IMO, but having one top D man and a whole bunch of average prospects isn't going to help much. When Datsyuk and Z were coming up, they exceeded expectations and came out of nowhere after being drafted. The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely. Maybe yours is different, and that's fine.. But I stick to my opinion. It's going to be hard to get Parise and Suter here (either one, let alone both). All these ideas you're throwing out are great, sure they would be awesome if they happened. But will they?.. Probably not.

P.S. I'n not sure what poll you are referring to.



Right now Calle Jarnkrok and Teemu Pulkkinen are in their 2nd year of development since their draft date and are putting up even better numbers than Datsyuk or Zetterberg did at their age. The Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't really come out of nowhere either each played 3 years at home developing after they were drafted so the Wings had plenty of time to get a look at them

Then you have prospects like Tverdon, Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul and Mrazek who are all having fantastic seasons in the CHL giving the Wings one of their deepest prospect pools they've had in decades.

As far as that poll, it was done by CBC and was voted on by the players you can see it here. Its also interesting to note how many categories Datsyuk was selected in, on top of that Parise has already said he is his favorite player in the league. If he hits Free Agency Detroit will certainly be one of the favorites to land him.

#477 centcougar07

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:19 AM

:rotflmao:

Either you live in a world where the last 3 NHL drafts didn't happen or you're on meth. The last two drafts have been very, very good by the Wings.

Honestly, you're either or troll or psychologically incapable of grasping reality. Go back and look at the last WJC scoring numbers and check out who was named the tournament's top goaltender. Cross reference that with last year's draft choices by the Wings. While you're at it why not google Hobey Baker and take a look for the names Nyquist and Smith in the list of the top 3 vote getters in the relevant years. Oh, and check out the QMJHL playoff scoring numbers. Hockey's Future has 6 Wings prospects rated 7.5 or higher and 12 listed at 7.0 or higher. 9 of those players are from the last 3 drafts. The worst HF can say is that our prospects with elite skill all have various question marks beside them... well that's exactly what happens when you draft in the bottom third of every round for 20 years. Yet somehow the Wings scouting team has made it work. So either the future is grim and current management is a group of guys who got lucky a bunch of times but are about to roll a bunch of snake eyes or things just might work out.

I'm glad that you claim to share your opinion with 'a lot' of league scouts but I think I'll call bulls***.

Regardless, if you read all the positive news about Wings prospects and still think the future is grim there are 29 other teams you can cheer for.



Judging by the latest NHLPA poll it's clear that Datsyuk is extremely highly though of among players. If it weren't for that we'd probably be in more trouble. It's also a bit worrying that the Devils are still going strong in the post-season but we have to assume that whatever caused Parise to sign his 1 year 'get me out of here' deal is still a factor (disagreement with management?).


Again, everything you've said I already addressed. The Hobey winner this year won't even be playing in the AHL next year.. The WINNER. Not a nominee.. A winner of the award. That doesn't mean a whole lot. Secondly, HF boards mean next to nothing. They had Benoit Pouliot listed as a 9.0B 4 years ago and now he's scoring 40 points a year in Boston. Even if they were accurate.. 7.5D isn't that great of a ranking. It's average, probably second line talent. Which is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. And I go to school with a kid who's dad and uncle are BOTH NHL scouts and being the hockey nut that I am, I'm always picking their brains about teams from across the league. They are both western scouts so I pay more attention to the west but I also know a little but about east. Hockey is like a religion for me. You may not like or agree with what I have to say, but the way you present it makes you look like an arrogant f*** with his head in the clouds. I'm not sure there is ever any bad press about any teams prospects unless there is no glimmer of hope. What do you expect the paper to say? "All our prospects are s*** and we have nothing to look forward to. This whole organization is s***." No. They would never do that. And it's not accurate. But it's true that our prospects are average and that our core of players is old and getting older.

I'm not sure you get to tell me which team I can and can't cheer for. But hey, thanks for reminding me that there are in fact 30 teams in this league. I almost forgot!

#478 centcougar07

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:33 AM

Right now Calle Jarnkrok and Teemu Pulkkinen are in their 2nd year of development since their draft date and are putting up even better numbers than Datsyuk or Zetterberg did at their age. The Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't really come out of nowhere either each played 3 years at home developing after they were drafted so the Wings had plenty of time to get a look at them

Then you have prospects like Tverdon, Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul and Mrazek who are all having fantastic seasons in the CHL giving the Wings one of their deepest prospect pools they've had in decades.

As far as that poll, it was done by CBC and was voted on by the players you can see it here. Its also interesting to note how many categories Datsyuk was selected in, on top of that Parise has already said he is his favorite player in the league. If he hits Free Agency Detroit will certainly be one of the favorites to land him.


Datsyuk and Zetterberg's games also transferred well to the NHL based on skill set alone. I'll shy away from comparing those two to Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen. And by come out of nowhere I was referring to draft position. 6th and 7th rounders who surprised everyone. We don't have that now. We know what the majority of our prospects have to offer. Like I said, I'm not saying every prospect we have is bad or anything. But most of them are average with a ceiling that we have a pretty good idea of already because we've seen what they can do in the minors for years and knowing that numbers drop even lower once you get to the highest of the high in terms of leagues (the NHL), it's pretty plain to see that there aren't any Datsyuk's or Zetterbergs to be had. And it's not surprising.. Those are rare.. rare players to be had. We've been blessed to have guys like that but eventually they were going to get old and lose production.. That's the cycle of life in the NHL and in all pro sports.. Save maybe for MLB where it's a money based league IMO. It's just time I think. It will do us good to rebuild in a few years.

Oh.. and I followed the link to the poll I saw Chicago and Detroit. Then I saw Montreal and Toronto and I laughed and clicked the red 'x' lol. But yes, Parise has said he admires the organization and all that. He's also said it about Minnesota and NJ.. It's all talk. In the end it means very little, if anything.

#479 Crymson

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:14 AM

Well of course it is.. But it's no longer THE place. That's what most people here don't realize. They think it's going to be ever so easy to entice Parise and Suter to come here. There are other things and other factors they will consider. Having a "winning tradition" is all well and good. As is having a couple players who have done great things in their careers (even if they are on the back end of them). But at the end of the day, they are going to be hotly contested FA's and we know Holland won't overpay. He never has and never will, even if it's necessary. And I don't blame him, it's time to start thinking about rebuilding in a couple years, not just reloading like we've become accustomed to.

And all the prospects you mentioned are middle of the road, second or third line forwards/d men. Smith has the most promise IMO, but having one top D man and a whole bunch of average prospects isn't going to help much. When Datsyuk and Z were coming up, they exceeded expectations and came out of nowhere after being drafted. The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely. Maybe yours is different, and that's fine.. But I stick to my opinion. It's going to be hard to get Parise and Suter here (either one, let alone both). All these ideas you're throwing out are great, sure they would be awesome if they happened. But will they?.. Probably not.

P.S. I'n not sure what poll you are referring to.


Have fun with your pessimism, then.

Edited by Crymson, 04 May 2012 - 10:21 AM.


#480 frankgrimes

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:44 AM

Its really disgusting how spoiled some so called fans behave.

Suter and Parise is nuts but Suter, Parise and making a play for Weber is just out of words. Maybe some people are too young remembering the death Wings era and our turnover only happened because Ilitch took over and created a winning culture with deep pockets for this storied original 6 franchise. In Hockey you can't say something like this is THE and the only place, not everyone likes playing in a big market enviroment with huge expectations. Its only early May and people are already calling for things "Parise and Suter or bust" so if we get either one its bust? One thing for sure Kenny will not go crazy but I fully expect him to overpay for either one and I'm completely fine with that.

Are we an attractive place for free agents? Sure we are an original 6 franchise, the most succesful team since two decades and our players are threatened very well but lets not ked ourselves here others team are looking for shakeups too (Vancouver, Pittsburgh, Boston, Philly with the Pronger situation to name some topdogs in the house) on top of that rising beasts like Nashville will be looking to ice an even better roster next season.

Personally I have some high hopes in terms or roster improvement if we can reload on the fly fine if not I'm more than ready to watch our young promising guns Smith, Nyquist and Jurco grow to the next level.

Honestly I hate winning team bandwagoners if you love your team, you do it thorugh the good times and even more so in bad times because thats what real fans do! You don't change your GF because he is sick or there are some relationship problems you work on it and love her even more, same with your hockeyteam. Sadly, I'm over 9.000 miles away from the Joe so I probably will never see them live but would pay a lot of money to do so.

That said if we can improve in terms of toughness and size that would be a step in the right direction even if we don't land Suter or Parise.

Edited by frankgrimes, 04 May 2012 - 04:45 AM.

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