567 replies to this topic

[Hockeymom1960]

Check your calendar dude. Drafting and internal growth are the only way to success in the post-cap era.



The only guys ahead of Jarnkrok are Smith and Nyquist and that's arguably because they're farther ahead on the development curve. Ironhook is one hell of kid. I can't wait to see what he can do with NHL size and some time in NA under his belt.

Add Mrazek to the stud list as well. Anyone who doubts him definitely didn't watch the World Juniors this year.

Definitely this

[Dabura]

Check your calendar dude. Drafting and internal growth are the only way to success in the post-cap era.

It's not what was said, it's who said it. Holland trades away draft picks like they're candy. And as for prospects - veteran roster + "over-ripe" pool. And this summer he'll be looking to add around 3 FAs to the roster.

Edited by Dabura, 08 May 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[centcougar07]

I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

[Drake_Marcus]

I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

I guess the Hockey News voting Smith in the top 20 prospects in the entire league doesn't count.

[Carman]

Centcougar, have you came up with that resource that has the Red Wings as one of the worst prospect pools yet? I'm still waiting. You're entitled to your opinion and prospects are almost always a gamble, but you are extremely diligent in your position, and I'm extremely curious on how you came to your conclusions. You said you are friends with a pro scout, I'm sure you can link me some good stuff so I can broaden my knowledge of prospects.

[LeftWinger]

Well, now since I have had time to calm a bit down from my disappointment for the Wings this season, and since the Cap may go up to $70M, I have re-tooled my 2012-13 roster a bit. I have left Franzen alone and re-signed Lids too. But it is imparative that Suter and Parise get signed!

Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.250m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.500m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Tomas Vokoun ($1.250m)
------

SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,142,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,357,955


If Eaves isn't gonna be healthy, then get Moen for $1.5M. The only thing I didn't do was re-sign Quincey. I didn't want to make Smith #7 and there is NO WAY Ericsson or Quincey will be #7, not for the cash they will be making. Offer Quincey $3M, if he wants more, I will be glad to acquire the #1 and #3 draft pick for him.

edit: negged? Guess you don't want Suter, Parise AND Lidstrom? Ok then....sure would like to hear your ideas...

Edited by LeftWinger, 08 May 2012 - 08:36 PM.

[centcougar07]

I guess the Hockey News voting Smith in the top 20 prospects in the entire league doesn't count.

I didn't say none of them were elite. Just not that many. I like Smith, he made a huge jump this year in my mind. I also mentioned a number of other prospects I like.

[FlashyG]

I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

You'd think the fact that Sweden is using him on their World Championship roster over several NHL players that he's one of the better prospects out there.

He's also dominating the faceoff circle over there winning over 60% of his draws. That would be a nice addition to the Wings puck possession style of hockey.

As far as the Wings ability to build internally through the draft, show me a team with more players on their roster they drafted and developed. Nashville might be the only one who compares and I believe they are tied.

[centcougar07]

Centcougar, have you came up with that resource that has the Red Wings as one of the worst prospect pools yet? I'm still waiting. You're entitled to your opinion and prospects are almost always a gamble, but you are extremely diligent in your position, and I'm extremely curious on how you came to your conclusions. You said you are friends with a pro scout, I'm sure you can link me some good stuff so I can broaden my knowledge of prospects.

It definitely not one the WORST prospect pools, but it's very average. That's my overall opinion but the shelves aren't TOTALLY bare. I am very confident in my assessment of the prospects, however I do most of my assessing from researching the prospects numbers and watching them play etc. I maybe wouldn't say friends, but we do talk occasionally when he has time and I pick at his brain as much as I can. I'll try and get some direct quotes from him and put them on here when I can. Hopefully before the draft. Also, Hockey's future had the Wings at 15 in November but that board is really old and a lot of it is outdated. I'm guessing when they release the rankings after the Draft in June, the Wings will be somewhere around 18,19,20.

I think Smith is top 2 defensive pairing talent. I think Nyquist could be a top 3 forward but most likely a second line guy. He tends to chase the puck a lot from what I've seen but he does give it 100% effort every shift and that makes him valuable to the Wings because they have often lacked a gritty player with scoring ability. Tatar is definitely the best offensive talent. He has raw scoring ability but he also has the potential to be a huge bust. Also, Pulkkinen has a lot of potential but I think he is probably a second line talent and who knows if his game will translate to the NHL. Beyond that we have a lot of B and C grade prospects that will be 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pairing D men. Again, this is all my opinion and others can make their assessments but this is just my view. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes; I know this isn't what people want to hear even though I certainly don't claim to be an expert.. But I do think I have a decent hockey mind.

Edited by centcougar07, 08 May 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Drake_Marcus]

It definitely not one the WORST prospect pools, but it's very average. That's my overall opinion but the shelves aren't TOTALLY bare. I am very confident in my assessment of the prospects, however I do most of my assessing from researching the prospects numbers and watching them play etc. I maybe wouldn't say friends, but we do talk occasionally when he has time and I pick at his brain as much as I can. I'll try and get some direct quotes from him and put them on here when I can. Hopefully before the draft. Also, Hockey's future had the Wings at 15 in November but that board is really old and a lot of it is outdated. I'm guessing when they release the rankings after the Draft in June, the Wings will be somewhere around 18,19,20.

I think Smith is top 2 defensive pairing talent. I think Nyquist could be a top 3 forward but most likely a second line guy. He tends to chase the puck a lot from what I've seen but he does give it 100% effort every shift and that makes him valuable to the Wings because they have often lacked a gritty player with scoring ability. Tatar is definitely the best offensive talent. He has raw scoring ability but he also has the potential to be a huge bust. Also, Pulkkinen has a lot of potential but I think he is probably a second line talent and who knows if his game will translate to the NHL. Beyond that we have a lot of B and C grade prospects that will be 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pairing D men. Again, this is all my opinion and others can make their assessments but this is just my view. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes; I know this isn't what people want to hear even though I certainly don't claim to be an expert.. But I do think I have a decent hockey mind.

You missed Jarnkrok, Jurco and Mrazek. Jurco has more pure offensive talent than Tatar but obviously needs to show he can succeed in the AHL like Tatar has.

Sheahan has the potential to be a big piece as well. With his size, strength and offense upside he'll be an important piece in the future (big, strong defensive centres who can chip in some offense are valuable commodities, especially when they are strong in the face-off circle).

[Drake_Marcus]

Going forward, I think Sproul and Ouellet have a chance to prove themselves to be real studs this coming season. Both had fantastic years in junior and likely will spend next year in jr where they'll be expected to take another step. Quine and Tvrdon may be in GR next season where they'll have a shot to prove they can score at the professional level. Quine will be exciting for his retarded skating ability alone, although he's a former 2nd overall OHL draft choice I doubt he'll be anything too amazing offensively next year. Having his skating skill is still nice. Tvrdon excites me because he's a big guy who can still get bigger and he has legitimate top-6 offensive talent. I hope he makes a smooth transition to the AHL and stays healthy.

[centcougar07]

You missed Jarnkrok, Jurco and Mrazek. Jurco has more pure offensive talent than Tatar but obviously needs to show he can succeed in the AHL like Tatar has.

Sheahan has the potential to be a big piece as well. With his size, strength and offense upside he'll be an important piece in the future (big, strong defensive centres who can chip in some offense are valuable commodities, especially when they are strong in the face-off circle).

I didn't miss them I just didn't put them in there because IMO they don't belong there.

[dirtydangles]

Going forward, I think Sproul and Ouellet have a chance to prove themselves to be real studs this coming season. Both had fantastic years in junior and likely will spend next year in jr where they'll be expected to take another step. Quine and Tvrdon may be in GR next season where they'll have a shot to prove they can score at the professional level. Quine will be exciting for his retarded skating ability alone, although he's a former 2nd overall OHL draft choice I doubt he'll be anything too amazing offensively next year. Having his skating skill is still nice. Tvrdon excites me because he's a big guy who can still get bigger and he has legitimate top-6 offensive talent. I hope he makes a smooth transition to the AHL and stays healthy.

Sproul and Ouellet are as close as stud dman in the making as you can find outside of the top 10 picks in the draft. Both have size and put up great offensive numbers. I'd bet both of these guys will crack the top 6 within the next 4-5 years.

To think that Jarnkrok and Jurco don't belong in the same sentence as pulks and tatar is crazy. Jarnkrok is for sure considered more of a sure thing than pulks and Jurco already has the size and skill to play in the nhl but needs time to develop properly into a top 6 player. Sheahan is iffy for me. Not sure if he will develop into a top 6 player just because he doesn't have the scoring touch i'd expect at the collegiate level (not enough games in AHL yet to see).

[Andy Pred 48]

Tvrdon is the dark horse here, he has the makings of being a true power forward. 6'2" and 220lb already with him on the LW and Jurco on the RW all they need is a big centre to form a potential 2nd line for the Wings in maybe 2-3 years. Maybe Joakim Andersson with his size would be a fit? Future looks ok to me, the scouts will un earth another diamond in the rough i have no doubt.

[Drake_Marcus]

Sproul and Ouellet are as close as stud dman in the making as you can find outside of the top 10 picks in the draft. Both have size and put up great offensive numbers. I'd bet both of these guys will crack the top 6 within the next 4-5 years.

To think that Jarnkrok and Jurco don't belong in the same sentence as pulks and tatar is crazy. Jarnkrok is for sure considered more of a sure thing than pulks and Jurco already has the size and skill to play in the nhl but needs time to develop properly into a top 6 player. Sheahan is iffy for me. Not sure if he will develop into a top 6 player just because he doesn't have the scoring touch i'd expect at the collegiate level (not enough games in AHL yet to see).

The best part with Sheahan is he's only 19 years old and he's got the strength/body of an NHL player and can play excellent defensive hockey (which is one of the toughest things for young guys to learn). With his natural offensive talent makes him one of those guys with the tools to break out at any time (don't forget he was considered a potential lottery pick the year before his draft but his move to the defense-first ND system hurt his production... I doubt he'd have fallen to us if he played junior his draft year). For us, though, if he only ends up as a big, strong defensive centre with good hands he's still a valuable piece because he has excellent size and can skate very well. Big centres who can skate and play excellent defensive hockey are the kind of players Babcock drools over.

[centcougar07]

Sproul and Ouellet are as close as stud dman in the making as you can find outside of the top 10 picks in the draft. Both have size and put up great offensive numbers. I'd bet both of these guys will crack the top 6 within the next 4-5 years.

To think that Jarnkrok and Jurco don't belong in the same sentence as pulks and tatar is crazy. Jarnkrok is for sure considered more of a sure thing than pulks and Jurco already has the size and skill to play in the nhl but needs time to develop properly into a top 6 player. Sheahan is iffy for me. Not sure if he will develop into a top 6 player just because he doesn't have the scoring touch i'd expect at the collegiate level (not enough games in AHL yet to see).

I don't buy into Jarnkrok being a top prospect. I think he is a second line center at best in the NHL and probably a third liner with decent offensive skills. He's definitely more of a playmaker. He's a little bit undersized and I just have a hunch that he will be a 3rd liner in the NHL. If he surprises me he could be a second liner. Jurco is playing in the Q with Saint John on a line with Coyle and Phillips (usually) and those two are putting up ridiculous numbers (Coyle: 15-17 in 15 games, Phillips: 8-21 in 15) but Jurco only has 10-12 in 14 (playoff stats only here). Obviously those aren't bad numbers but we all know numbers in the Q are inflated a little and I would argue that if Jurco wasn't playing with such high end talent his numbers wouldn't be nearly as high. That being said he is a good player but still probable a second liner in the NHL.

Knocks on him for me is showing a consistent effort and hockey sense

[LeftWinger]

On a different note, I REALLY hope Holland signs Jeremy Welsh to a contract for GR. He is 23 and 6'3" 200lbs. He could, along with Sheahan, become a force in the NHL in a year or two. I also am still hoping the Holland inks DeKeyser as well.

Sheahan/Welsh

Smith/Dekeyser

All playing together 5 years from now in their primes...NICE!

[F.Michael]

I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

While I'll be the 1st to admit that I do not follow the player developement of our prospects that some here do - however from what little I've read I have to agree with you.

[Andy Pred 48]

to bracket any of our prospects as 'Elite ' is wrong from the start. We haven't had a pick in the top #10 since getting Marty Lapointe with the 10th overall pick in '91, which is a year alot of fans on here can't even remember!!
Its a bonus when any of our picks are top 6 material with where we are currently drafting. To expect anything more is being rather unrealistic in my view.
We could have a few potential top 6 players within 2-3 years within our current crop of prospects. We should really be delighted that we get any so called elite guys with our drafting position.

Calle Jarnkrok is listed at 6'0" and 176lbs another 15-20lb gain and he'll be ok for the NHL;

A very skilled center that will get the job done on the wing as well. Järnkrok's main asset is his outstanding hockey sense, which allows him to be the great playmaker that he is. Overall a very smart player with good positioning in all zones. Also quite shifty with soft hands and impressive puckhandling skills. Not a physical player, but plays pretty well through heavy traffic although in need of gaining strength and muscles. Good character. Often used as pointman on the man advantage, but can still improve his release. Is a good skater, but there is still some room for improvement in that department.

[dirtydangles]

I don't buy into Jarnkrok being a top prospect. I think he is a second line center at best in the NHL and probably a third liner with decent offensive skills. He's definitely more of a playmaker. He's a little bit undersized and I just have a hunch that he will be a 3rd liner in the NHL. If he surprises me he could be a second liner. Jurco is playing in the Q with Saint John on a line with Coyle and Phillips (usually) and those two are putting up ridiculous numbers (Coyle: 15-17 in 15 games, Phillips: 8-21 in 15) but Jurco only has 10-12 in 14 (playoff stats only here). Obviously those aren't bad numbers but we all know numbers in the Q are inflated a little and I would argue that if Jurco wasn't playing with such high end talent his numbers wouldn't be nearly as high. That being said he is a good player but still probable a second liner in the NHL.

Knocks on him for me is showing a consistent effort and hockey sense

for the games i watched jurco wasn't on that line - only cause huberdeau is out. he played with gauthier, who is also good but still. regardless, jarnkrok is the same height as zetterberg and datsyuk so you can stop overblowing that and he has time to put on a good 15 pounds. He is playing over nyquist at the WC and is 4th in scoring in the SEL at age 20.