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What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?


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#141 Heaten

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:56 AM

One part he says "we battle hard, we play hard" I just lol'ed.

This team has serious compete issues.


So I take it you didn't watch game 4? Detroit has outplayed and out chanced Nashville. Difference is Nashville has capitalized on their chances, Wings did not. You can blame Datsyuk for not burying his multiple grade 'A' chances, you can blame Filpulla and Lidstrom as well.

I'm not disappointed with the team. I think they are playing the traditional Red Wings hockey that won cups in the past. This year they are not getting the luck or bounces or calls.

#142 Majsheppard

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:06 PM

The Franzen contract isn't bad. I stand by the concept that we need another big time forward to allow us to balance the top lines for chemistry. There just isn't any way to put Franzen and Pavel together without destroying that line or the second to compensate.

Pavel Fil and Franzen would be the best bet.
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Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#143 DMAC 25

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

So after this years first round ouster what does Kenny do in the offseason? As far as I am concerned its a complete failure if both Ryan Sutter & Zach Praise are not in Wing jersey's come fall. Also I would make a play for Shea Webber b/c our first round picks take for ever to come on board and also they gave up a first for a piece of junk in Kyle Quency so might as well give up some firsts for something great.

What's a fact is that this team has been in serious decline since game 7 2009 and it needs to be fixed ASAP! This team won't beat any of the other 7 teams in the West come playoffs and being is 6th seed is a damm joke!

last i checked we were still in the playoffs....not the greatest chance at winning but didnt we come back from 3-0 against st jose last year?

#144 ogreslayer

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:33 PM

So after this years first round ouster what does Kenny do in the offseason? As far as I am concerned its a complete failure if both Ryan Sutter & Zach Praise are not in Wing jersey's come fall. Also I would make a play for Shea Webber b/c our first round picks take for ever to come on board and also they gave up a first for a piece of junk in Kyle Quency so might as well give up some firsts for something great.

What's a fact is that this team has been in serious decline since game 7 2009 and it needs to be fixed ASAP! This team won't beat any of the other 7 teams in the West come playoffs and being is 6th seed is a damm joke!

I for one am going to be really disappointed if Kenny goes after Sutter, Praise, & Webber. Are those cheap, Chinese knockoffs of the real Ryan Suter, Zach Parise, & Shea Weber?

#145 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:55 PM

the real problem with the Wings is this,

before when our skill level wasnt getting it done we had the likes of Mac,Shan,Joey and Lapointe to shake it up
and get the momentum swing we needed. We do still have a high skill level, but we are lacking in the other department.
this roster doesn't need a complete overhaul but it does need a change of 3 or 4 personnel in key areas.
hopefully we'll see this done in the off season by our GM, if not i think the owner may be having words.
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#146 esteef

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

the real problem with the Wings is this,

before when our skill level wasnt getting it done we had the likes of Mac,Shan,Joey and Lapointe to shake it up
and get the momentum swing we needed. We do still have a high skill level, but we are lacking in the other department.
this roster doesn't need a complete overhaul but it does need a change of 3 or 4 personnel in key areas.
hopefully we'll see this done in the off season by our GM, if not i think the owner may be having words.

Agree, but don't hold your breath.

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#147 LeftWinger

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:09 PM

If nobody is going to take Franzen's horrible contract off our hands, then still go after Parise and Semin and demote Franzen to the third line with Helm & Bertuzzi. If Bertuzzi plays anywhere near the top two, then I hate the re-signing of him. Third line is perfect for Bert. It will be fine for Franzen too. I don't mind Franzen in a third line role, but he is NOWHERE near a top 6 forward anymore. Not on this team or most others. He's NEVER be picked to be an All-Star and as hokey as the ASG Weekend is, it still speaks wonders of what the fans and your piers think of you as a player. Let Hudler walk. Zetterberg and Datsyuk and even Filppula need skilled scoring forwards.

Parise - Datsyuk - Semin
Filppula - Z - Nyquist
Bert - Helm - Franzen
Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves
Tatar(Sheahan)

I'd prefer just dumping Frazen and acquiring Morrow for that third line though...

Agree, but don't hold your breath.

esteef

Agree with both of you! The 3 or 4 player change AND not holding my breath...

Leaving - Cleary, Franzen, Hudler, Emmerton, Mursak, Stuart (Lids & Holms retires)

Coming - Morrow, Parise, Semin, Suter, Smith

Edited by LeftWinger, 19 April 2012 - 09:25 PM.

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#148 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:23 PM

Semin has a horrible work ethic. I don't want him here. A lot of people complain about Hudler and Franzen, and I don't think they realize that Semin is basically the same thing, as far as effort goes. He has a lot of skill, but often seems uninterested in the game. There are better option out there for the top 6.
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#149 LeftWinger

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:38 PM

Semin has a horrible work ethic. I don't want him here. A lot of people complain about Hudler and Franzen, and I don't think they realize that Semin is basically the same thing, as far as effort goes. He has a lot of skill, but often seems uninterested in the game. There are better option out there for the top 6.

as long as that other option is a perfect compliment to Datsyuk (like Hossa was). This team needs TWO pure scorer's. Maybe Semin for a year to see what gels, if he works out great, if not, he moves on...

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#150 dats13owns

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:13 PM

Maybe they get lucky and Cleary goes the Rafalski route and hangs them up for health reasons? Though he has been playing his ass off in this series so it makes me believe that he still has the desire to play.

Just a thought.

#151 Jeff6851

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:33 PM

Maybe they get lucky and Cleary goes the Rafalski route and hangs them up for health reasons? Though he has been playing his ass off in this series so it makes me believe that he still has the desire to play.

Just a thought.


Maybe they get even luckier and Hudler decides to do that
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#152 plopster

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:35 PM

The first thing that Holland needs to do, and would be a good sign of things to come, is that he decides to get a new flipping haircut and stop walking around like he just stuck his head in a grease gun. All the money in the world and he goes out his house looking like that. What is the deal? If he can figure that out, I will expect better things moving forward.


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#153 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:16 PM

I hope Kenny's watching the other teams who have a bottom six filled with guys who play extremely hard, can skate really quickly and are more than solid defensively. I mean, the guys aren't even that big. It seems like a lot of them are around 6'0 or 5'11 but they get the job done in the playoffs.

#154 Heaten

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:51 PM

I hope Kenny's watching the other teams who have a bottom six filled with guys who play extremely hard, can skate really quickly and are more than solid defensively. I mean, the guys aren't even that big. It seems like a lot of them are around 6'0 or 5'11 but they get the job done in the playoffs.


I agree, Helm and Eaves have been brutal to watch this year. Holland needs to trade them both for bottom six players who can make life miserable for other teams... they are complete bums.

#155 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:08 AM

If nobody is going to take Franzen's horrible contract off our hands, then still go after Parise and Semin and demote Franzen to the third line with Helm & Bertuzzi. . . .

I'd prefer just dumping Frazen and acquiring Morrow for that third line though...


I agree Franzen could be useful in a third-line role. He was very effective there his first two seasons before he started scoring and was moved up (although I seem to recall he played more at centre than at wing back then).

As for "just dumping" him, he's basically untradeable because of the cash outlay required over the next five years, and buying him out would create an unacceptable cap-hit legacy for the next 16 (!)years (courtesy capgeek):

◦ 2012-13: -$139,205
◦ 2013-14: $110,795
◦ 2014-15: $110,795
◦ 2015-16: $110,795
◦ 2016-17: $1,610,795
◦ 2017-18: $3,110,795
◦ 2018-19: $4,110,795
◦ 2019-20: $4,110,795
◦ 2020-21: $1,156,250
◦ 2021-22: $1,156,250
◦ 2022-23: $1,156,250
◦ 2023-24: $1,156,250
◦ 2024-25: $1,156,250
◦ 2025-26: $1,156,250
◦ 2026-27: $1,156,250
◦ 2027-28: $1,156,250

Bottom line is that barring a miraculous trade that requires taking back a similar bad contract, he's going to be on the Wings for at least the next five seasons, and we need to find a way to get something approaching $4M/yr of value out of him.

Edited by paulwoodsfan, 20 April 2012 - 09:09 AM.


#156 mmamolo

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:42 AM

If the cap goes nowhere here's the plan:
Out: White, Stuart, Holmstrom, Hudler
In: Parise, Nyquist, Suter, Smuth

Obviously this is fantasy

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($6.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Darren Helm ($1.200m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.950m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.000m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.350m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,667,295; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $632,705
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#157 ogreslayer

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

Semin has a horrible work ethic. I don't want him here. A lot of people complain about Hudler and Franzen, and I don't think they realize that Semin is basically the same thing, as far as effort goes. He has a lot of skill, but often seems uninterested in the game. There are better option out there for the top 6.

You mean the same Semin what was benched in the 3rd last night because he's such a huge defensive liability? Yeah, for those who think Franzen floats, watch more than a couple of Caps games to see what Semin's game is about. Do...not...want...

#158 rick zombo

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

Semin has a horrible work ethic. I don't want him here. A lot of people complain about Hudler and Franzen, and I don't think they realize that Semin is basically the same thing, as far as effort goes. He has a lot of skill, but often seems uninterested in the game. There are better option out there for the top 6.


Semin has two goals so far in a tight series vs Boston.

The Red Wings have, as a team, scored 8 goals so far against Nashville.
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#159 Doc Holliday

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:23 AM

If nobody is going to take Franzen's horrible contract off our hands, then still go after Parise and Semin and demote Franzen to the third line with Helm & Bertuzzi. If Bertuzzi plays anywhere near the top two, then I hate the re-signing of him. Third line is perfect for Bert. It will be fine for Franzen too. I don't mind Franzen in a third line role, but he is NOWHERE near a top 6 forward anymore. Not on this team or most others. He's NEVER be picked to be an All-Star and as hokey as the ASG Weekend is, it still speaks wonders of what the fans and your piers think of you as a player.


1. Franzen scored 28 goals. I don't care if it was with Datsyuk or not, he still brought goals to the table and scored more than anyone on the team. If you don't think that is top 6 based on that, then you are bonkers.

2. Only 40 or so players are invited to the all star game. Only 24 of those are forwards. There are 180 forwards who could be considered in the top 6 for teams in the NHL. Franzen doesn't have to be a top 24 forward in the league to be considered for the top 6.

3. If you can bring in a top-tier forward and either put Franzen on the other side or put him on the second line with Zetterberg and Filppula, then you will have a working top 6. Franzen isn't signed like a superstar (except for the length, which wouldn't be a problem if you unloaded him to a cap hungry team in his later years) and he can score you goals well enough.


And how anyone can think of Semin as a worthwhile signing with his ego and work ethic is beyond me. We need hard working talent and a couple crashers and bangers. We don't need ego-talent.

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#160 mmamolo

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:36 AM

I'm not really in favour of signing Semin but people are way over blwoing his apparent worh ethic and ego issues. If you've watched any of the Boston/Washington series you'd know that those sentiments are not truly accurate. I'm not syaing he's the hardest working guy in the world but he's not the laziest. The defensive play he made in Game 3 was amazing by any one's standards.

It's like when people remember his one playoff series against MTL where he just couldn't score and had just 2 assists in 7 games and now claim that he's not a playoff performer without realizing he has 32 pts in 41 playoff games.

Again, I'm not saying I want him. But maybe let's turn down the blinders a bit
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