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#21 Cali-Wing-Nut

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:51 PM

As much as I am behind this post and understand your frustration with the people that are leaving the team for dead, I think the sheer fact of starting this thread is counterproductive to you original intent.

Everyone that takes offense to being called a negative nancy will be in here trying to explain their case even though you ask them not to.

I for one think the Wings got this round, I dunno how many itll take but I really do believe that the Wings go into a different mode of playing come playoff time. Im not particularly excited that Cleary has now admitted that he not only has a cyst but also has degenerative osteoarthritis. I had it after 6 surgeries from an impacted acetabulum (my thigh bone went through the hip bone, like jumping off a 4 story bulding and landing on your feet) sustained from a bad moto wreck. For one year, my bones werent healed enough to have a hip replacement and merely existed in the pain from the bone on bone movement. If he is that bad he needs to sit it out. I required pretty hefty doses of oxy just to walk. If he isnt taking anything and is even 20% of what I was he has no reason to play. This isnt a play through a mild fracture or any injury that can be heavily taped, this is a situation that every movement is affecting him and as such needs to go on LTIR.

Beyond that one I am confident the Wings are going to win.

Who can remember a time we have played the Preds and werent a little apprehensive about the match up? They are a tough team that likes to grind it out. Things havent changed much since the last time we took them out so this shouldnt be any different.

My best guess is we take it in 6, thats what we've beaten them by the last few times we played.

Oh and GO WINGS
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#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:58 PM

As much as I am behind this post and understand your frustration with the people that are leaving the team for dead, I think the sheer fact of starting this thread is counterproductive to you original intent.

Everyone that takes offense to being called a negative nancy will be in here trying to explain their case even though you ask them not to.

I for one think the Wings got this round, I dunno how many itll take but I really do believe that the Wings go into a different mode of playing come playoff time. Im not particularly excited that Cleary has now admitted that he not only has a cyst but also has degenerative osteoarthritis. I had it after 6 surgeries from an impacted acetabulum (my thigh bone went through the hip bone, like jumping off a 4 story bulding and landing on your feet) sustained from a bad moto wreck. For one year, my bones werent healed enough to have a hip replacement and merely existed in the pain from the bone on bone movement. If he is that bad he needs to sit it out. I required pretty hefty doses of oxy just to walk. If he isnt taking anything and is even 20% of what I was he has no reason to play. This isnt a play through a mild fracture or any injury that can be heavily taped, this is a situation that every movement is affecting him and as such needs to go on LTIR.

Beyond that one I am confident the Wings are going to win.

Who can remember a time we have played the Preds and werent a little apprehensive about the match up? They are a tough team that likes to grind it out. Things havent changed much since the last time we took them out so this shouldnt be any different.

My best guess is we take it in 6, thats what we've beaten them by the last few times we played.

Oh and GO WINGS


Honestly, I can never remember the Wings looking so vulnerable going into the playoffs.

In 2002, this team played awful to end the season, but that team was loaded like none other. You had to know they'd win.

In 2010, we were a 5 seed, but had the best record in the league after the deadline from what I remember. And after destroying Phoenix in game 7, most people would have picked us to beat San Jose. Even last season, the team looked really strong sweeping Phoenix and it looked like they could handle the Sharks potentially.

But this team has fallen into the playoffs like no other Wings team I can remember. I don't know why anyone is surprised that so many people are not excited about our prospect of going far.
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#23 Nightfall

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:15 PM

Link

ESPN - Stats say Wings poised for another cup.

EDIT: Can an insider share?


It's obvious that the 2011-12 Detroit Red Wings aren't as good the 2007-08 squad that won the Stanley Cup. I say this because this season's team doesn't exhibit the sheer dominance the Wings have shown in previous years. In fact, they finished third in their division. And they've won just five of their past 17 games.

But don't let this team fool you. The Red Wings have the characteristics of a Stanley Cup winner -- more so than any other club in NHL. But this time around, they aren't a juggernaut. They are strong but vulnerable.

Detroit finished atop the Playoff Power Meter, which ranks teams by how much they statistically resemble past Cup champions. For example, previous teams have shown that it's incredibly hard to win a Cup without scoring at least 2.8 goals per game or by allowing more than 2.6 goals per game. They've also shown that regular-season save percentage doesn't matter as much, while performance against top-eight NHL teams is the best indicator of a champion. (See the full explanation here.)

When the numbers were crunched for the 2012 playoffs, the Wings came out on top.

Now, it's tough for Wings fans to feel comfortable with this team because, when the Red Wings last won the Cup, they had a goal differential of 0.89 per game and shot differential of 10.9 per game. That's unheard of. This 2011-12 squad is less invincible, with a 0.48 goal differential and 5.2 shot differential. Most of the difference between the two clubs is on the defensive end, where the 2007-08 team allowed just 23.5 shots per game, which offset mediocre goaltending. This season, the Wings don't have that padding. They've allowed 27 shots per game, which is still very good, but it's not a huge cushion for goalie Jimmy Howard.

That said, what's most encouraging about this year's squad is its performance against the top eight teams in the league. The Red Wings have won 12 of 21 games, second-best in the NHL. They split the season series against the Nashville Predators, Vancouver Canucks and Philadelphia Flyers, and they won four of six against the St. Louis Blues. In short, they won't be overmatched in any series.

So who would they likely see in the finals? Let's take a look:

Eastern Conference champions: Pittsburgh Penguins

The Penguins finally got Sidney Crosby back and, in the meantime, held their spot in the power meter standings. They're scoring at an encouraging rate (3.33 goals per game) and getting plenty of shots on goal (33.9 per game), but the concern is on the defensive end. On one hand, the Penguins are allowing 2.66 goals per game, which is a bit too much for comfort; the power meter benchmark is set at 2.6 goals per game. On the other hand, this Pens team is better defensively than the 2008-09 squad that won the Stanley Cup.

In fact, that team allowed 2.84 goals per game and had a .906 save percentage and minus-1.3 shot differential. This makes the Penguins the only championship club to have a negative regular-season shot differential. So it might be an easier road to the Stanley Cup than last time, but goalie Marc-Andre Fleury and his defensemen will need to step up -- especially in Round 1 against the Flyers. The Pens have lost four of six against the Flyers, although they did beat the Flyers 4-2 in the season finale. Obviously this, and season series in general, is not a huge sample size, but they are the most recent results we have.

In the mix: Boston Bruins, Los Angeles Kings, Vancouver Canucks, New York Rangers

The Bruins were at the top of the power meter standings for a while and, despite some struggles along the way, met every major benchmark except one: record versus top-eight teams. They won just seven of 16 games, which is alarming on two fronts. First off, they've played the fewest games against the top teams in the league (tied with the Canucks), so they aren't the most tested club. Secondly, they lost to the Rangers and Penguins three out of four games.

The Kings sneak in here because despite major offensive issues -- 2.29 goals per game will be a problem -- goaltending is the great equalizer, especially against elite teams in the league. With much thanks to Jonathan Quick, the Kings have won 11 of 21 against the top-eight clubs. They might have a problem with the Red Wings, who have outscored the Kings 18-11 in four games, but Quick can keep them competitive against any other club.

The Canucks are much like the Bruins in that they've met every major benchmark, although their shot differential of 0.7 per game leaves a bit to be desired. They're tied with the Bruins in having the fewest number of games against the top eight teams in the league. They played the Rangers, Flyers and Penguins just once -- and lost all three games. The earliest they can see those teams is in the Stanley Cup finals. They did, however, split the season series against the Red Wings, so they could spoil Detroit's run.

Rangers fans are probably very unhappy to see their team anywhere but at the top of this list, especially after such a strong regular season. But there are some real weaknesses on this squad, almost entirely on offense. Scoring just 2.71 goals per game is simply not enough; the lowest-scoring championship team since the lockout was the 2010-11 Bruins, and they scored 2.98 goals per game in the regular season. As far as shots per game, 28.5 is uncomfortably low; the 2008-09 Penguins got away with 29 shots per game -- but they had Crosby, and the Rangers don't. All that said, this Rangers squad came alive against the top eight teams in the league. They won 14 of 20 games, sweeping the Flyers in six regular-season matches. The only team they might want to avoid is the Penguins, who beat the Rangers four times in six tries.

Needing a lucky bounce: Chicago Blackhawks, Philadelphia Flyers, St. Louis Blues, San Jose Sharks

For the Blackhawks, there's good news and bad news. The good: They played a whopping 27 games against the NHL's top eight teams, and they beat the Wings and Blues eight out of 12 games, including a shootout win in the season finale against the Wings. The bad: Their goal differential is 0.12 per game. Since the lockout, no team has won the Cup with such a low goal differential. The 2008-09 Penguins (0.3 per game) come the closest.

The Flyers' biggest problem is their record against the top teams in the league. They lost 14 of 22, although they won four of six against the Penguins, who are their first-round matchup. But if they run into the Rangers -- a potential second-round matchup -- it could be ugly. They lost all six of their games against the Blueshirts.

The Blues might not belong in the above category. The power meter doesn't know what to do with them because they're putting up unprecedented defensive numbers. They miss the benchmarks for goals per game and shots per game, but they met the defensive benchmarks by such a large margin that, if they win the Cup, they'll radically reshape the power meter formula going forward. That said, they've struggled as of late.

The Sharks don't quite score enough (2.67 goals per game), and their goal differential is just 0.16 per game. There have been no Cup-winning teams since the lockout with such poor numbers in those categories. However, they nearly met the benchmark for performance against elite teams, winning 10 of 21 games. That said, they lost all four regular-season games versus the Blues, their first-round matchup, and they lost three of four against the Canucks.

Left out: Nashville, New Jersey Devils, Washington Capitals

The Predators have a shot differential of minus-3.2 per game. Only one team has played in the Stanley Cup finals with such a poor regular-season shot differential, and that's the 2007-08 Penguins (minus-3.1). The Penguins didn't have a Pekka Rinne to offset the imbalance of shots. But then again, the Preds don't have a Crosby to will them to the finals.

The Devils' goal differential (0.13 per game) and lack of scoring punch (2.63 goals per game) will be a problem. However, they split the regular-season series with the Rangers, Flyers and Penguins, so favorable matchups could help them go deep in the playoffs.

The Caps sneaked into the playoffs despite meeting just one major benchmark. They allowed 30.5 shots per game (the benchmark is 31), but that's still too many when considering their shaky goaltending situation. However, there's just one reason to watch them. Against the top eight teams in the league, they were an even .500 -- including three wins in four games against the Bruins, their first-round matchup. They split the season series against the Predators, Rangers and Penguins while beating the Red Wings twice in two games.

That's too bad: Colorado Avalanche

The Avalanche are the highest-ranked team in the power meter to miss the playoffs. They landed here because they had just enough shots per game (31.5) and allowed just 29.6 shots per game, combined with some solid goaltending.

They are the only nonplayoff team with a positive shot differential, which is good news for seasons to come. That said, the young Avs were pummeled by the top eight teams in the league, losing 16 of 23 games.
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#24 Nightfall

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:28 PM

As much as I am behind this post and understand your frustration with the people that are leaving the team for dead, I think the sheer fact of starting this thread is counterproductive to you original intent.

Everyone that takes offense to being called a negative nancy will be in here trying to explain their case even though you ask them not to.

I for one think the Wings got this round, I dunno how many itll take but I really do believe that the Wings go into a different mode of playing come playoff time. Im not particularly excited that Cleary has now admitted that he not only has a cyst but also has degenerative osteoarthritis. I had it after 6 surgeries from an impacted acetabulum (my thigh bone went through the hip bone, like jumping off a 4 story bulding and landing on your feet) sustained from a bad moto wreck. For one year, my bones werent healed enough to have a hip replacement and merely existed in the pain from the bone on bone movement. If he is that bad he needs to sit it out. I required pretty hefty doses of oxy just to walk. If he isnt taking anything and is even 20% of what I was he has no reason to play. This isnt a play through a mild fracture or any injury that can be heavily taped, this is a situation that every movement is affecting him and as such needs to go on LTIR.

Beyond that one I am confident the Wings are going to win.

Who can remember a time we have played the Preds and werent a little apprehensive about the match up? They are a tough team that likes to grind it out. Things havent changed much since the last time we took them out so this shouldnt be any different.

My best guess is we take it in 6, thats what we've beaten them by the last few times we played.

Oh and GO WINGS

You are probably right in your assessment. My goal wasn't to convert people, but merely to get a base of people who believe in this team all together and on the same page. There is no converting the negative nancy people. What I can do though is motivate the people who are all in for the Wings.

Pretty much it. I'm the last thing from being a person that goes ZOMG PLAYER ABC sucks and ZOMG PLAYER XYZ is worthless or just obsessively hates players or panics like the sky is falling and I'm going to kill myself and this team is beyond repair. That's beyond aggravating like the poster below you said. However the holier than thou people aggravate me just as much if you can't be even a shred of negative in a realistic way like you said.

Can the Wings advance this series? Yes they can.

Do I think they will? No.

Do I want them to prove me wrong? Without question.

Does any of this above make me any less of a fan? No, and nobody better suggest to me otherwise because I don't want to hear it and you are likely going to be full of b.s.

I'm going to watch every game rooting for them to pull through hoping that I am incorrect. And if I'm not, am I going to come on here and tell people I told you so? Absolutely not, that's not my style and it's pretty much acting like an a**hole there.

Hopefully the holier than thou cheerleaders on here will do the same if they win and advance - keeping their mouths shut and getting over any ego they might have.


I like this attitude.

I am a Ferris State Bulldogs fan, and I didn't think they were going to win the game against BC. Did I want them to prove me wrong? Absolutely.

What you point out is what every fan naturally does. Most are realists, like myself.

No fan should be coming onto forums and saying how "They told you so". I would never do that when it came to the Bulldogs or the Red Wings. As you said, that is acting like an asshat, and IMHO, real fans don't do that to their team.
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#25 Jeff6851

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:58 PM

Honestly, I see us losing easier than I see us winning. Doesn't mean I won't cheer or pick us to lose. Go Wings! Best team of all time, let's show em why!
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#26 Cali-Wing-Nut

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:06 AM

My goal wasn't to convert people, but merely to get a base of people who believe in this team all together and on the same page. There is no converting the negative nancy people. What I can do though is motivate the people who are all in for the Wings.



I didnt figure you were trying to convert anyone. What I ws getting at is when you tell someone to stay out if they dont agree with you, every last one will come out of the woodwork.

I for one agree wholeheartedly but not everyone feels the same way and will heed your request to not post to this thread.

Personally, I think the realist should be chatting away in hockey odds threads or more statistical ones for that matter. Chearleading and RARARAing is also good for the fan base and shouldnt get rained on by the more "realistic" fans. Unfortunately, the people that think you are a homer for cheering and wishing the best will show up and in return people that yell at those people for not be supportive will as well.

You tried your best but it ainst happening here and probably wont happen online. My best suggestion is to ra ra ra at the bar or with your friends or at the game.
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#27 Nev

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:09 AM

Look, I'm all for supporting the team and always will be. I will attend the games and cheer on the Red Wings like always. That being said, you can be a realist and still be a loyal fan. I don't think the Red Wings are built to win the Stanley Cup this season. They probably have a shot if literally everything goes in their favor. If that makes me a negative nancy or a lesser fan to those that judge this type of thing, then that comes with the territory.


Well said, too many have the Crymson attitude of "if you don't think the Wings will go 82-0 in the regular season and 16-0 in the playoffs then you're not a real fan." Wanting the Wings to win and thinking the Wings will win are not mutually exclusive.

Me, up until we got the injuries, I liked our chances as much as any team. Dats was on fire, defence and goaltending were strong. Now, we've got too many players injured, or coming back from injury and playing themselves into fitness and form (Datsyuk, Franzen, Helm, Howard - not key players on our team or anything..... ). The only good thing out of the injuries was that it enabled Z to play himself back into form.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#28 GoWings!

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:38 AM

This is a fun yet difficult time of the year for me. I have superstitions I go through like wearing a certain jersey for a certain game and not changing the channel and not seeing certain people who I deem a jinx. Hehe...anyways Lidstrom deserves one more before his inevitable retirement and this team showed what it could do before all the injuries kicked in. With enough motivation we all know this team has what it takes to get it done. They just have to execute and want it more than all the other teams! Here's to an awesome new season of playoff hockey! Let's do it boys!

Edited by GoWings!, 10 April 2012 - 07:38 AM.


#29 Nightfall

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:40 AM

You tried your best but it ainst happening here and probably wont happen online. My best suggestion is to ra ra ra at the bar or with your friends or at the game.

I don't know. It seems to be working so far. :)

I do get your point though, but I am going to give it a try. :)
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#30 55fan

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:46 AM

It doesn't matter who we cheer for or how we feel.

The Florida Panthers will win the Cup. Tomas Kopecky will be a three-time Stanley Cup Champion, having won the Cup 3 times in 5 years with 3 different teams.

With this, the secrets of the universe shall reveal themselves and all the world as we know it shall perish.

The Mayans have foretold it. So shall it be.



Screw the Mayans.
I'm still rooting for the Wings.

Edited by 55fan, 10 April 2012 - 07:47 AM.


#31 mmamolo

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:15 AM

People forget that "fan" is derived from the word "fanatic" meaning : "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion". A term which, lately, is used negatively when we talk about terrorists. i.e.: religious fanatic. My Point? now think about what terrorists do for their "team".


Me, as of right now, I'm committing my unwavering optimistic support from now until the end of June. I really do think we can make it to finals..


Here's how: our boys would love nothing more that a short travel schedule and we're not going to have to play one series outside of the central conference.


1st round: Wings over Preds.
Stl over SJ
Chicago over Phx
Van over La


2nd round. Wings over Stl (who are battered from a long tilt over SJ)
Chicago over Van (hawks have done it before)


3rd round Wings over Chi town. (no problem there, chicago is just a half ass version of the wings)




That's how it's going to go down. Bank on itPosted Image









I’d love if that’s the way it went for some obvious reasons. First, the Wings would win. Second, the Wings wouldn’t be travelling anywhere (essentially). Third, the Wings would reassert their dominance over the entire Central Division.
Posted Imagewww.unsportsmanlike.ca





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