WCQF Game Four GDT : Predators 3 at Red Wings 1

[King Crane 289]

OMG BOOZ MUST STEAL BE IN YR SMALL HEAD

Can you link me to your blue-collar comedy special?

[crispychris 45]

What a bunch of cowards. something has to change with this club. But it's not over yet, I think we could beat nashville 3 times in a row but something has to change.

[gcom007 1,465]

Did Holland know Hudler would say "f*** off" and take more money from the KHL? In that case YES, Holland made a mistake, otherwise, I think his choice was justified by the numbers Huds and Filp had that post season

In my mind, who the hell cares? If I'm Holland and I've got a chance to sign one of the top players in the game who's a phenomenal asset and team player in every regard who desperately wants to be here for a $5 million cap hit, the last thing I'm thinking about is Jiri ******* Hudler. There's a run on sentence for your asses.

[King Crane 289]

I just want to say redwashington2000 is my favorite poster. That is all.

I second this

[gcom007 1,465]

I just want to say redwashington2000 is my favorite poster. That is all.

Without a doubt. I haven't been on this site in ages. Busy year. I checked back in at the right time.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

MEN TELL ME ABOUT IT I SLAPED MY CAT I SENT MY WIFE SHOPING I SCREEMED AT MY F.........TV I BROKE MY REMOTE CONTROL DEVICE SO I WILL ******* SEND THE BILL TO MR. BABCOCK LET HE PAY IT ASS H....................OLDING

"LET HE PAY IT ASS?" I know I've been drinking a lot tonight but . I don't have a cat or a wife but I'd slap them both at this point. I get all the calls for change and I agree that a big one needs to come if this team is going to stay relevant, but I don't agree with the clean house, scorched earth mentality. Flip has been nonexistant this series, but this series has only been 4 games. He was one of our most consistent players this season, strong on the puck and making smart plays even when he wasn't getting on the scoreboard. He made the people around him better and picked up the slack during the first part of the season when Z wasn't up to snuff. I don't know what crawled up his ass since the playoffs started, but I'd like to keep him around and see what he has to offer.

I'm beyond frustrated with Franzen, and wouldn't have my feelings hurt if he got traded for an upgrade. So frustrating to know what he is capable of and just not see it. I hope they let Hudler walk, and think there is plenty of talent in GR to replace Emmerton. I love Homer, but I think it's time for him to hang it up. I hope Nicky comes back for another season, but am worried about how he's going to look at this injury and how it restricted his level of play. Hopefully Cleary can get healthy, love his heart. Helmer is a trooper, and brings a lot of fire to this team. All in all, I think there are some changes that can be made without gutting the team, but I will be disappointed if we stand pat and do nothing. Maybe just the Jameson talking, but I really hope I didn't just watch Lidstrom's last game at the Joe. Not quite ready to say goodbye to that era, I guess.

[King Crane 289]

In my mind, who the hell cares? If I'm Holland and I've got a chance to sign one of the top players in the game who's a phenomenal asset and team player in every regard who desperately wants to be here for a $5 million cap hit, the last thing I'm thinking about is Jiri ******* Hudler. There's a run on sentence for your asses.

Eh, agree to disagree. Hindsight is 20/20. You've convinced me what Holland should have done, but I'm not compelled that he made the wrong choice giving the circumstances at the time

[gcom007 1,465]

Eh, agree to disagree. Hindsight is 20/20. You've convinced me what Holland should have done, but I'm not compelled that he made the wrong choice giving the circumstances at the time

Hudler and Flip never were and never really have been incredibly consistent players, and that's being generous in Hudler's case. I don't think it had anything to do with numbers and everything to do with misplaced loyalty to guys we drafted.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I was really hoping he would prove me wrong, but at least next season when Franzen is lazily floating through 82 games because he is "bored" (must be a new way of saying "paid"), all the slappies can't point to how clutch he is come playoffs.

[King Crane 289]

Hudler and Flip never were and never really have been incredibly consistent players, and that's being generous in Hudler's case. I don't think it had anything to do with numbers and everything to do with misplaced loyalty to guys we drafted.

AAAAAAND there it is.

You've convinced me

Still like Holland, but...yah, that was a poor decision

[vangvace 12]

No head coach is going to want to be an assistant coach for the red wings Todd is not coming back... The PP and PK just exemplify really how bad our system is.. All they do is cycle and throw shots on net from the outside. This team is really just a shell of highly skilled players and on the inside they are hollow... All their success made Kronwall, Flippula, Stuart very overrated... Abdelkader , helm, eaves is a Stanley cup winning fourth line not third line players

Stuart is showing his age. Flip I hope is injured and I think Kronwall may be suffering from a coaching rut.

I actually think Howard can play better but he's mediocre right now ... I'm suspecting some residual stuff from injury.

Well, when Vancouver gets knocked out, there will be a big name goalie available, Luongo or Schneider ... do you want one of them?

Neither. I didn't think Howard would make it to be a starter for the Wings, but I would take him over those two.

On the news they just showed the replay of the game winner...how DUMB did our team look? My God. 3 players bite hook line and sinker, including the goalie. And it leaves 2, not 1, but TWO predators wide open all day to put the puck in the gaping net.

Pathetic breakdown. It's those breakdowns that killed us this series.

It'll be in the ESPN Top 10 failures of the week on Friday too.

The regular season record set will keep the front office and Babcock in place.

[Firehawk 305]

Howard's salary is $2.25 mil

Edit: and he certainly played like it tonight.

HE ALLOWED 2 GOALS!!!!!!!! The 3rd goal really didn't matter. We were on the PK for the rest of the game!

My God. He makes 2.25 million, which is what below average goalies make! HE's a bargain. He's a good, solid goalie...not a spectacular one...and nobody's willing to spend cap money for one of those.

WE CANT SCORE, AND WE ARE TOO SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fix the speed and size issue and maintain as much talent as possible while doing it and we'll be better.

Go buy Suter, Weber, and Parese, let Lids retire, get rid of Hudler, let Homer retire, tidy up a few things, and we'll be back next year.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

I am pretty shocked with Filppula's performance so far. He has a good track record of playoff performances the past four (?) years. Not a great track record like Pav and Z but a good one.

[cnot19 191]

Eh, agree to disagree. Hindsight is 20/20. You've convinced me what Holland should have done, but I'm not compelled that he made the wrong choice giving the circumstances at the time

I think this is a fundamental difference between alot of people. Id rather have a great player than two good players, good players are much much easier to come by, especially guys like Hudler. Either way youre right hindsight is 20/20 I was hoping wed get Hossa at all costs even if it meant franzen and hudler, but it went the other way. I always prefer the top player available because the second and third tier guys are easy to replace.

[joesuffP 1,746]

To anyone saying we should trade Filppula in the offseason: You are ******* retarded and should keep your opinions about the game of hockey to yourselves.

Why? I could care less how many points he gets. When he's on the ice he is insignificant. People mistake cycling the puck around the perimeter as great hard working hockey. He is an average 3rd liner on most good hockey teams. This is what happened to us with Kronwall... The league started talking about how good he was and Holland bought into it and now were stuck with him. Trade him well he has value before we decide to consider him as a core player, then our core is a soft gooey thing like what you saw today

[CrimsonFlame 424]

HE ALLOWED 2 GOALS!!!!!!!! The 3rd goal really didn't matter. We were on the PK for the rest of the game!

My God. He makes 2.25 million, which is what below average goalies make! HE's a bargain. He's a good, solid goalie...not a spectacular one...and nobody's willing to spend cap money for one of those.

WE CANT SCORE, AND WE ARE TOO SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fix the speed and size issue and maintain as much talent as possible while doing it and we'll be better.

Go buy Suter, Weber, and Parese, let Lids retire, get rid of Hudler, let Homer retire, tidy up a few things, and we'll be back next year.

Howard is average. We all know that. The problem is when everyone starts thinking that he is this elite goaltender who is the next coming of Brodeur. Everyone inclunding Ken Holland, Mike Babcock, and our entire defense corps.

The team plays like they can do what ever the f*** they want because Howard will be there to bail them out. But he can't. He's not Jonathon Quick. He's not Pekka Rinne. He's not Tim Thomas.

If we want to go anywhere with an average goalie we need a STRONG defense. And I don't just mean some hybrid defenders that earn their keep through points. I mean actual DEFENDERS.

[King Crane 289]

Neither. I didn't think Howard would make it to be a starter for the Wings, but I would take him over those two.

Completely agree. He was that back-up kid with the horrible rebounds. He has really shown what hard work and determination can do. On top of that I think Howie exemplifies the Red Wings spirit. As I have posted in my sig, "I'll smile in June" - Jimmy Howard. WOW! And that isnt a prepared statement, it's his whole mentality. He's a serious player. If the team does poorly, he take the blame, if the team does well, he is first to give credit to whole before himself.

[b.shanafan14 733]

HE ALLOWED 2 GOALS!!!!!!!! The 3rd goal really didn't matter. We were on the PK for the rest of the game!

He allowed 4 goals. YOU deemed one unimportant, and the refs deemed another non-existent.

I agree, this team can't score for s***, but Howard has played OK at best, subpar being a bit more accurate. You look for your goaltender to make saves on scoring chances. Rinne has done that; Howard has not. What's more frustrating than not burying 1 of 20 in their end? Digging it out of your own net on 4 of 8.

[gcom007 1,465]

Howard is average. We all know that. The problem is when everyone starts thinking that he is this elite goaltender who is the next coming of Brodeur. Everyone inclunding Ken Holland, Mike Babcock, and our entire defense corps.

The team plays like they can do what ever the f*** they want because Howard will be there to bail them out. But he can't. He's not Jonathon Quick. He's not Pekka Rinne. He's not Tim Thomas.

If we want to go anywhere with an average goalie we need a STRONG defense. And I don't just mean some hybrid defenders that earn their keep through points. I mean actual DEFENDERS.

Yep.

I've never been one to think a good all-around team needs an $8 million goalie. So many of those expensive guys still don't deliver Cups and oftentimes are pretty inconsistent themselves. I'd take solid guys that have moments of brilliance surround by a fairly steady hold on things like Osgood and Howard any year. Howard has not been the problem. Like I said before, he hasn't been lights out, but he's hardly been bad, and he's looking worse because he's getting hung out to dry when our skaters are pinching and frantic because we can't score.

I wasn't thrilled with that fluky 2nd goal, but I have absolutely no real beef with Howard overall.

[atodaso 279]

HE ALLOWED 2 GOALS!!!!!!!! The 3rd goal really didn't matter. We were on the PK for the rest of the game!

My God. He makes 2.25 million, which is what below average goalies make! HE's a bargain. He's a good, solid goalie...not a spectacular one...and nobody's willing to spend cap money for one of those.

WE CANT SCORE, AND WE ARE TOO SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fix the speed and size issue and maintain as much talent as possible while doing it and we'll be better.

Go buy Suter, Weber, and Parese, let Lids retire, get rid of Hudler, let Homer retire, tidy up a few things, and we'll be back next year.

He is a bargain. And for the most part, he has been great. But that second goal was pure garbage. It reminded me of Howard from the last two seasons where he was overcommitting at times. And even though it's only one terrible goal, it was truly a momentum killer. Not saying Howard is to blame for this loss but that was one hell of a time to have a brain fart.

[gcom007 1,465]

He allowed 4 goals. YOU deemed one unimportant, and the refs deemed another non-existent.

I agree, this team can't score for s***, but Howard has played OK at best, subpar being a bit more accurate. You look for your goaltender to make saves on scoring chances. Rinne has done that; Howard has not. What's more frustrating than not burying 1 of 20 in their end? Digging it out of your own net on 4 of 8.

And how much worse off would we be if we had to subtract $5 million from our offense and defense to pay someone like Rinne when we already can't score goals?

He is a bargain. And for the most part, he has been great. But that second goal was pure garbage. It reminded me of Howard from the last two seasons where he was overcommitting at times. And even though it's only one terrible goal, it was truly a momentum killer. Not saying Howard is to blame for this loss but that was one hell of a time to have a brain fart.

We failed to capitalize on two power plays after that 2nd goal at home in the 3rd period in what for all intents and purposes is a must-win game. Who gives a s*** about momentum if our guys can't rise to the occasion on two power plays in a situation like we had tonight?

[atodaso 279]

Why? I could care less how many points he gets. When he's on the ice he is insignificant. People mistake cycling the puck around the perimeter as great hard working hockey. He is an average 3rd liner on most good hockey teams. This is what happened to us with Kronwall... The league started talking about how good he was and Holland bought into it and now were stuck with him. Trade him well he has value before we decide to consider him as a core player, then our core is a soft gooey thing like what you saw today

People wanted him to get traded last offseason, and the year before too. Then he suddenly has a breakout season and everyone loves him again. Then, he has one bad playoff series and everyone wants him gone again. He has too many positive qualities to let him go now. For all we know he could be playing hurt. This is why there are people getting paid a lot of money to make these kinds of decisions.

And how much worse off would we be if we had to subtract $5 million from our offense and defense to pay someone like Rinne when we already can't score goals?

We failed to capitalize on two power plays after that 2nd goal at home in the 3rd period in what for all intents and purposes is a must-win game. Who gives a s*** about momentum if our guys can't rise to the occasion on two power plays in a situation like we had tonight?

Hudler hit the post with the game tied. We had a lot going and then that goal happens. Either way the defensive breakdown on that play was just as ridiculous as Howard wandering out of his crease.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Flip has been nonexistant this series

Huh? You just described his play.

strong on the puck and making smart plays even when he wasn't getting on the scoreboard.

Of the forwards not named Datsyuk and Zetterberg, he's be our best (or least mediocre). He's always strong on the puck, battling and play hard. He's not getting on the score board but that isn't to say he's playing bad. Now he isn't playing great either, but who on the team is? He's still playing a hell of a lot better than Hudler, Bertuzzi, Cleary and Franzen.

[b.shanafan14 733]

And how much worse off would we be if we had to subtract $5 million from our offense and defense to pay someone like Rinne when we already can't score goals?

We failed to capitalize on two power plays after that 2nd goal at home in the 3rd period in what for all intents and purposes is a must-win game. Who gives a s*** about momentum if our guys can't rise to the occasion on two power plays in a situation like we had tonight?

I agree. And Howard played amazing for most of the season prior to being injured. However, that doesn't change or excuse the fact that he has not merely been outplayed by a superior goaltender, but been another layer of soft on an increasing easier team to beat. Simple way to tell how the goaltending his doing, GAA or SV% aside: when you see a decent chance for the opposition developing, do you expect a save or a goal? Every chance Nashville has had this season I have grown to expect in the back of the net, and he hasn't proven me wrong yet.

Howard is not the number one issue on this team, but he is a player that should be playing a great deal better. The Wings were never going to score bushels of goals on Rinne. This series was going to be attrition, but what does allowing 3(4) goals on considerably less shots do for a gameplan that came in expecting few goals against a superior goaltender?

Maybe referencing anything from 2008 with this year's team is flawed from the start, but the same thing happened in the series against Nashville then. Ellis was playing absolutely lights out. The Wings carried territorial play, but every single scoring chance the Preds had, they buried on Hasek. Game 5, Osgood comes in and battles Ellis in a game of attrition. Even after the Preds scored with the goalie pulled at the end, Osgood managed to win 2-1. That year, when the Wings weren't starting on time or sagging with a lead, Osgood stopped the puck. When chances happened I expected him to save them. That's the simple difference.

Edited April 18, 2012 by b.shanafan14

[13dangledangle 958]

I havent seen the game yet (just got off work) and am not to happy with what the score is but if this 3-1 loss is Jimmys fault Im going to let myself out of the rest of this thread and Ill see ya at game 5.