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Time to start looking for a new coaching staff


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#61 Draper_Rocks#33

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

Just wanted to share a story with yous.. I played hockey two weeks ago with paul mcleans nephew tyler.We had a good chat talking about the wings and sens,and he told me that paul had talked to babs the week before and he told paul you know i never really knew how much you did till you wernt there anymore. Babs took on basically rookies which i think most would agree was not the best choice. In my opinion its not babcock that should have his job in question.

#62 b.shanafan14

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:44 AM

As frustrating as the lack of accountability is, getting rid of Babcock would be a huge mistake. The Wings will not find a better/similar coach anywhere. Blame his rookie assistants for being irrelevant and Holland for allowing the team to stagnate for 3 years. Lost two coaches to head coaching jobs, where they've since excelled, and replaced them with nobodies on a team of guys who have forgotten more things about hockey than some college or minor league coach will ever know. Sign some respectable veteran coaches who have the itch to assistant positions.

Either way, this starts at the top. I'm not saying Holland needs to be replaced, but he needs to get off his ass and do something. As others have said, Babcock has made several comments in recent years about the competition getting better and the Wings not doing enough, as well as very thinly veiled comments about the need for grit. He know what it takes to win, its Holland's job to provide him with the personnel to do so.

And don't think for a second that the lack of accountability for Franzen doesn't have to do with Holland signing a player with a small body of work to an astronomical contract and needing to justify it/save face.

#63 edicius

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:58 AM

How about the defensive and offensive coordinators that they brought that had no NHL experience?


THIS.

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#64 Wingedwheeler2

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:19 AM

N'ville is probably GLAD when we go on the power play. "OH thank god, two minutes where we don't have to worry about them scoring".

If they just keep the two point men open then all we'll do is pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass mishandle out of the zone the whole time.



Ummmm.......don't the Wings have 5 Power play goals in this series? I know its at least 4.......and they are being outscored 9-4 5 on 5 in the series.

#65 The Secret

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

Ummmm.......don't the Wings have 5 Power play goals in this series? I know its at least 4.......and they are being outscored 9-4 5 on 5 in the series.


This is a tight series that will be decided by special teams play more then anything. 4 ppg's on 80 chances is NOT good enough. I too am sick of the 8 million passes and shot from places that have little chance of getting in. Had our Power Play been better I think we could have won any/all of the games we've lost so far.

#66 mmamolo

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:42 AM

Lidstrom is going to retire. Go ahead and neg me...I'm calling it right now.

I'm not saying you're wrong but it would be an awful shame for him to go out as the Wings fizzle
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#67 Valas19

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

Can we get John Tortorella just for the HBO 24/7 series? I love me some Johnny Torts, guy personifies entertainment.
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#68 wingslogo19

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:28 AM

I think it hurts that our assistant coaches have never had any nhl experience

Edited by wingslogo19, 18 April 2012 - 09:29 AM.

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#69 Nev

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:46 AM

1) The roster has problems, we all know it, but Babs can only work with the hand he's dealt. I think its pretty obvious he's not happy with the roster as is. He always wants more size and toughness. He wanted a big upgrade at the deadline as he (quite rightly) felt this was our best chance since 2009. He's complained about Franzen not moving his feet or using his size.

2) Before the injuries, we were actually playing really well. Datsyuk and Howard were on fire - since they came back they've struggled to find form, fitness and confidence. We're missing Helm and Eaves which exposes our bottom 6 big style

3) Who is there available who is a better coach than Babcock? I want names people. Babcock is for me one of the top-5 coaches in the NHL. Who is available who could do a better job than him. Don't come here with your Hitchcock's and your Trotz's and your Tortorella's, we ain't gettting them.

4) Thats not to say I don't think some players aren't tuning him out - I think some are. But there will be roster turnover this summer, hopefully an infusion of youth and fresh faces will help - as some have made the comparison when we lost Lang, Schneider etc.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#70 b.shanafan14

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:03 AM

1) The roster has problems, we all know it, but Babs can only work with the hand he's dealt. I think its pretty obvious he's not happy with the roster as is. He always wants more size and toughness. He wanted a big upgrade at the deadline as he (quite rightly) felt this was our best chance since 2009. He's complained about Franzen not moving his feet or using his size.

2) Before the injuries, we were actually playing really well. Datsyuk and Howard were on fire - since they came back they've struggled to find form, fitness and confidence. We're missing Helm and Eaves which exposes our bottom 6 big style

3) Who is there available who is a better coach than Babcock? I want names people. Babcock is for me one of the top-5 coaches in the NHL. Who is available who could do a better job than him. Don't come here with your Hitchcock's and your Trotz's and your Tortorella's, we ain't gettting them.

4) Thats not to say I don't think some players aren't tuning him out - I think some are. But there will be roster turnover this summer, hopefully an infusion of youth and fresh faces will help - as some have made the comparison when we lost Lang, Schneider etc.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Agree on all points. And the players who are tuning Babcock out are the ones who are the problem. Can't swap out a one-of-a-kind coach like Babcock for the poor showings of players who are undersized (Hudler), past their prime (Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Cleary), uninterested/lazy (Franzen), injured (Helm, Eaves) or inadequate (Emmerton, Abdelkader at center). Who does that leave in the scoring department? Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Miller, Nyquist. Sounds about right.

Between the comments about how this team isn't built to compete physically, wishing he had someone in the trenches, and getting pissed about missed free agency/trade opportunities, I think Babcock has lobbied plenty to change tweak the formula to get it back to what it was in 2008-2009.

Babcock "pissed off" thread

#71 Wingedwheeler2

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:03 AM

This is a tight series that will be decided by special teams play more then anything. 4 ppg's on 80 chances is NOT good enough. I too am sick of the 8 million passes and shot from places that have little chance of getting in. Had our Power Play been better I think we could have won any/all of the games we've lost so far.



My point was this......Nashvilles power play has been worse than ours, and so has their penalty kill....yet they lead the series 3-1. They have killed us 5 on 5 and I think that is a damning stat. I must have counted 6-8 soft dumps at the net last night that Rinne just gloved off without so much as a red jersey in sight.....that tells me this team is either not capable of crashing the net, or not willing......either way, its an issue.

I am a lifelong Wings fan.....and I still cheer for them every game....but the time has come to start rebuilding the dam. We are the oldest team in the NHL.....I think we have crossed that line from experienced to just plain old. I'm all for a youth movement.....might have to sacrifice the now for brighter days in the future.

#72 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

My point was this......Nashvilles power play has been worse than ours, and so has their penalty kill....yet they lead the series 3-1. They have killed us 5 on 5 and I think that is a damning stat. I must have counted 6-8 soft dumps at the net last night that Rinne just gloved off without so much as a red jersey in sight.....that tells me this team is either not capable of crashing the net, or not willing......either way, its an issue.

I am a lifelong Wings fan.....and I still cheer for them every game....but the time has come to start rebuilding the dam. We are the oldest team in the NHL.....I think we have crossed that line from experienced to just plain old. I'm all for a youth movement.....might have to sacrifice the now for brighter days in the future.


Don't look at the stats. Look at the products. Our PP has been s*** for a while. Why? Because they spend more time looking for a perfect opportunity that never arises than firing on an ok opportunity.

#73 Doc Holliday

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:47 AM

The assistant coaches, maybe. Not Babcock.

It is the personnel that is the problem. Not the coaching. The ball is in Holland's court, now.

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#74 wings1110

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:50 AM

holland keeps building soft teams.

#75 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:58 AM

The assistant coaches, maybe. Not Babcock.

It is the personnel that is the problem. Not the coaching. The ball is in Holland's court, now.

Exactly. And maybe not even the assistants, honestly. Babcock brought in some very green coaches. There's a chance they've learned a ton this season and will be better next year.

But this roster needs a shakeup for sure. If there's any silver lining in guys like Lids and Stuart leaving, it's that it forces Holland to do more than tweak the lineup.

#76 hattrickz331

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

I hate to say this but it has become apparent that Mr Babcock has probably just worn out his welcome.

The stats say that other than a select few head coaches, such as Scotty, coaches tenured longer than 4 years dont win cups. Looks as though that may be true with Babs as well.

Came to mind talking with Crimson about the team and became very apparent that our guys just dont hear him the same way anymore. The players have a personal relationship with Babs the same way teenagers have with their parents. Both know that even if they get yelled at they know that the consequences are pretty hollow. The rest of the time they just dont care.

We all know that some organizations tend to replace coaches on a daily basis, we arent the Canadians or the Leafs, but look how effective it was with STL. Hitch came in and it was night and day from word go.

I seriously think that we need leadership more than we need a new team. The talent is there, the coaches are there to coax it from them and Babs & Co. just dont seem to be able to do that.

you say the talent is there, where is this so called talent? are you kidding me!!! except for z and pavel this team is a joke. a bunch of third and fourth liners period. you can kid yourself all day long, this team needs remade NOW. if anybody should go it should be ken holland for sitting on his ass at trade deadline and keeping the same sorry ass team that got bounced the last 2 yrs in the second round.

#77 Dominator2005

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:00 PM

Im done with babs after tonights game. 28 shots ZERO goals in 2 periods and you keep the same lines. obviously s*** isnt working switch it up drastically not just moving one person around.



It's not the quantity it's the quality that matters.

This team is not BUILD for playoff's - END of story.


2nd line is small and weak
3rd line isn't physical at all
4th line - Grand Rapids potential

Flip and Zetterberg can't play together - in order for them to be effective they need to control the puck and there is only 1 puck.


Bab's is the best coach in NHL !!
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#78 HankthaTank

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:10 PM

Getting rid of Babcock would be a mistake.

I'm sure there's some message fatigue but he's still a great coach. What he needs more than anything are players who compete hard every night. This lineup needs a shakeup before they need a new coach.

Sums it all up right here.
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#79 esteef

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:11 PM

Fighters are losing their role in the game across the league, it's not just Detroit. Hard to justify a roster spot for a guy who doesn't bring much of anything else to the table especially when the other teams aren't carrying pure fighters either. They just need some guys that are hungry. I'd settle for a hint of chippiness at this point. I really don't give a s*** about fighting one way or the other, I just want guys who are willing to do whatever it takes to win so much so that they sometimes do something stupid.

I'df****** kill to have Shea Weber on our side smashing some other team's star's head into the glass at the end of a game that's clearly over in your favor. I want a team that gets fined because they want it so bad that they make some stupid mistakes like that. Where's the tenacity on this team? It's absolutely non-existent.

The "hard to justify a roster spot" notion is complete bulls***. And other teams DO carry pure fighters. But I agree, as most people do, that a player that can play good minutes AND fight is the ideal situation. Somebody like a Shawn Thornton type player.

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#80 RedWingsExpert1988

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:20 PM

The problem is more than what everyone thinks. Lets start with Holland. Not Babcock. He has not been changing the team around at all the past couple years. The next problem is we have too many PLAYMAKERS. There are no snipers on the team. The next problem is we have a very SMALL team that IS NOT PHYSICAL. Another problem we have is really bad 3/4th line. We also need to replace guys like hudler, bert or cleary, and franzen on top 6, grab a sniper or two and get a couple big physical power fowards. Holmstrom needs to retire.

Defense will be interesting this off season depending on what happens with lids, stuart, and if anyone gets traded...





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