Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

How do we fix this?


  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#41 Jeff6851

Jeff6851

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 726 posts

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:02 PM

Trade Franzen for Stevie
Detroit fan living in St. Louis
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
"Play them six times, they might win four, but not this game. Not tonight."
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

#42 pondrocket

pondrocket

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 195 posts

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:06 PM

agree with everything you said...except...i think that quincey should be let go too. guy is a bottom pairing defenseman that earns almost 4 mil a season.


We could loose him & E. Does anybody know how much Allen in Carolina makes? Would prefer him to both Quincy & E.

Edited by pondrocket, 18 April 2012 - 02:07 PM.


#43 JPT

JPT

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 117 posts

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:38 PM

I think we have to let Hudler walk. For his current contract and his offensive output I think he is a decent fit on the team. But he is going to want a raise and quite frankly he doesn't win any battles and is a defensive liability. He also doesn't really create any scoring chances for anyone else.

#44 Jeff6851

Jeff6851

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 726 posts

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:48 PM

Franzen and Bertuzzi should not be playing with Datsyuk.Franzen shows very little effort now that heís set for life. Bert, while heshows effort, is too slow for Datsyuk and for a second line player, Franzenbeing on the same line doesnít help. Datsyuk is more of a playmaker than ascorer so he needs a guy that can score that can also make plays, enter ZachParise. Parise needs to be signed this year. Franzen can be traded forprospects or as a salary dump for all I care.

Hudler should not play on the power play; he is slow andallows too many breakaways from playing on the point. His shot is never usedbut when it is he relies on deflections. I wouldnít mind him leaving but if hestays he should not be played on the first line.

Sadly, the Wings look like theyíre destined for a fewhorrible years if they donít change. We canít stick with aged veterans whilethe division gets younger and stronger. One of the toughest things needs to bedone and we need to let Holmstrom and Lidstrom walk. Theyíll stay a part of theorganization (Lids will probably become a scout in Sweden). This will clear upsalary to sign new guys (such as Parise) and make the team younger. Again, itíshard as these guys are some of the best (Lidstrom is the greatest d-man of alltime to me) but itís their time. MakeZetterberg captain and give Parise his A.

This team needs some size. We canít keep losing puck battleson the boards or keep getting knocked away when entering the zone. We donítneed goons but we need guys that wonít take s*** from the other team.

Sign Ryan Suter to take Lidstromís place. Heís young andincredibly talented. Thereís no way Nashville will be able to keep him withRinneís salary doubling, re-signing Weber and keeping their team from fallingapart to free agency.

New approaches to the game are needed. Hoping for adeflection or a little bounce to go in isnít going to work anymore. Neither istrying to use the backboards, everyone is on to our trick. The lower lines needto crash the net. The top six need are the only guys that I trust to try towork a fancy goal and even then Iíd like to see more hardwork than trying tobeat the goalie with fancy moves.

Get rid of Kindl. Thereís no need for him, he didnít play inthe playoffs because he isnít good. Smith is ready and needs to play now, hell,even Janik is better than Kindl.


Detroit fan living in St. Louis
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
"Play them six times, they might win four, but not this game. Not tonight."
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

#45 Majsheppard

Majsheppard

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,512 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:54 AM

Fire Babcock.

Also, I think we can forget about Suter now. Why would you leave a team that is better shape than the Wings?

I would be worried that they manage to get Parise now...
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#46 Majsheppard

Majsheppard

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,512 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:25 AM

Step-by-step procedure:

...There's 22.6 mil in cap space available, with 15/23 roster spots accounted for.

#1) Trade Cleary (for nothing, I don't care). Now there's 25.4 mil in cap space available, with 14/23 roster spots accounted for.

#2) Put Nyquist, Tatar, Smith and Mursak (or Sheahan?) on the roster. Now there's 22.2 mil in cap space available, with 18/23 roster spots accounted for.

#3) Resign Helm and Abdelkader to similar contracts. Now there's 20.5 mil in cap space available, with 20/23 roster spots accounted for.

#4) Sign Parise and Suter to contracts at about 7.0 mil per season. Now there's 6.5 mil in cap space available with 22/23 roster spots accounted for.

#5) The remaining 6.5 mil (and it might be less) is for Lidstrom, who may need to take a pay-cut.



2012/2013 Detroit Red Wings:

Filppula(3.0)-Datsyuk(6.7)-*Parise(7.0)
Franzen(4.0)-Zetterberg(6.1)-Bertuzzi(2.1)
*Tatar(0.8)-*Helm(0.9)-*Nyquist(0.9)
Miller(0.8)-*Abdelkader(0.8)-Eaves(1.2)
Emmerton(0.5)
*Mursak(0.6)

*Lidstrom(6.2)-*Suter(7.0)
Kronwall(4.8)-White(2.9)
*Smith(0.9)-Ericsson(3.3)
Kindl(0.9)

Howard(2.3)
MacDonald(0.6)



...That's a team that could win it all.


1) Cleary actually played better than most of the team on one leg, I wanted him gone before this series and honestly I don't see any clear cut improvement with someone else. I wouldn't be upset if he is moved, but it doesn't have to happen.

2) Smith and Nyquist are going to be on the roster. Tatar might be, I don't sheahan should be at all. Mursak should have been playing the entire year in more situations. Babcock really screwed up there.

3)Helm and Abs will be resigned. However, Abs might be part of the problem.

4) I wouldn't bet on the Wings being able to get either of these guys. Suter just watched his team steamroll the Wings. Why would he want to leave now? I am looking at their cap situation, and they could realistically keep him and sacrifice depth. In fact, he could go anywhere he wants with Parise as they are friends. The Wings will try, but I don't see this as something we should realistically bank on. I also don't think Parise would fix our problems because he would play into the Wings mentality.

5) Lidstrom might not even come back. I don't know what was going on with all the conservative use of him in this series and leading up. He might feel he is too beat up to keep going, or at least that he doesn't want to do it on discount.

Bonus: We need to fire Babcock.
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#47 Majsheppard

Majsheppard

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,512 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:30 AM

Side-note: Anyone else like the Klein dude on Nashville? He's been their best defensemen all series.


I actually hate him. However, he has our number. This is a strategy I would like to adopt. Go after all the people that can beat us by themselves.

Klein Scuderi, Pavelski, Sharp and others that just seem to always beat us.
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#48 Tim Cheveldae's Ghost

Tim Cheveldae's Ghost

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 26 posts
  • Location:Toledo, OH

Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

There must be an infusion of youth next year on the team. In today's parity-filled league, you can't rely on old veterans to win when every other team is getting younger and faster. I think the Wings need to start changing their philosophy on how they handle youngsters, because perhaps the "Red Wing way" isn't the right way anymore.

#49 The Secret

The Secret

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,202 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, ON

Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

What's going to make players like Suter and Parise want to come to Detroit? Seriously.


1. Mike Illitch
2. Mike Babcock
3. History - Being a part of a successful and storied franchise
4. 21 years in a row of being in the play offs
5. The ability to fill a needed role and become a fan favourite
6. A franchise that committed to having a successful team
7. A franchise that treats its players like family and keeps them happy enough they will take less to stay

...I can keep going

#50 Danielsm

Danielsm

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 480 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:52 PM

If the Wings do a sign and dump with Stuart (as we know we want's to go west), could we possibly trade Stuart and Franzen for Bobby Ryan in Anaheim? Then say we are lucky enough to land Parise, our top 2 lines could look something like this:

Parise - Datsyuk - Zetterberg
Nyquist - Filpulla - Ryan

That would be pretty damn dangerous.

#51 Jeff6851

Jeff6851

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 726 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

1) Cleary actually played better than most of the team on one leg, I wanted him gone before this series and honestly I don't see any clear cut improvement with someone else. I wouldn't be upset if he is moved, but it doesn't have to happen.

2) Smith and Nyquist are going to be on the roster. Tatar might be, I don't sheahan should be at all. Mursak should have been playing the entire year in more situations. Babcock really screwed up there.

3)Helm and Abs will be resigned. However, Abs might be part of the problem.

4) I wouldn't bet on the Wings being able to get either of these guys. Suter just watched his team steamroll the Wings. Why would he want to leave now? I am looking at their cap situation, and they could realistically keep him and sacrifice depth. In fact, he could go anywhere he wants with Parise as they are friends. The Wings will try, but I don't see this as something we should realistically bank on. I also don't think Parise would fix our problems because he would play into the Wings mentality.

5) Lidstrom might not even come back. I don't know what was going on with all the conservative use of him in this series and leading up. He might feel he is too beat up to keep going, or at least that he doesn't want to do it on discount.

Bonus: We need to fire Babcock.


In regards to 4. Parise has stated many times that Datsyuk is his favorite player. Tell him that he'll spend a lot of time on his line and give him a big contract and I could easily see him with us next season (throw in all the other factors like pretty much being guaranteed a playoff spot). Nashville isn't going to be a team relying on superstars to get it done, they haven't in this series outside of Rinne. They will want their depth players and they'll need to re-sign Weber and Rinne's pay is going to double next season. Sure, he just watched his team trounce the Wings but everyone knows it's because we're missing a few key parts. Who's to say they won't get crushed in the next round?

The one thing that makes me worried that we might not get either of them is Holland deciding he wants to win with the pieces we have.


Detroit fan living in St. Louis
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
"Play them six times, they might win four, but not this game. Not tonight."
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

#52 Jeff6851

Jeff6851

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 726 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:47 PM



There's him saying he loves watching Datsyuk. Also a line from Pasha himself
Detroit fan living in St. Louis
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
"Play them six times, they might win four, but not this game. Not tonight."
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

#53 plopster

plopster

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 363 posts
  • Location:Charleston, SC

Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:45 PM

The first thing that Holland needs to do, and would be a good sign of things to come, is that he decides to get a new flipping haircut and stop walking around like he just stuck his head in a grease gun. All the money in the world and he goes out his house looking like that. What is the deal? If he can figure that out, I will expect better things moving forward.
mccarty3

 

 


#54 Rivalred

Rivalred

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,273 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:08 PM

Duct Tape, Crazy Glue, and Popsicle Sticks
D-Fence Avatar Win-O-Meter 8-1

#55 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,518 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

I'm not ready to dismiss this team just yet. Game 4 was an almost perfect game by the Wings except for the bad coverage on the second goal, which was on Howard and those three in the corner.

But you can't really argue with 40 shots against what, 20, if that? They even crashed the net a few times. I know Babcock and Holland have urged "staying the course" at various times this year, and denied anything being wrong, but this time I think they are right. They SHOULD have won the last game. What more can they do except hope a few go in and Howard stays sharp in case he doesn't face a lot of shots?
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#56 Barrie

Barrie

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,920 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:16 PM

I don't think there's a lot that needs to be fixed. Mostly we just need to free up cap room by letting Hudler, Stuart, and Holmstrom go.

I think for a few years Holland has planned that this off season he'd make a big move or two. I can see Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith playing full time, which frees up money to sign Parise. Suter, I don't think he'll sign here, but we have enough good guys on D if Lidstrom retires, or Holland will make another mid level White type signing.

We can still win one more Cup with Zetterberg and Datsyuk as the leaders of this team. I think long term, and I don't see going out in the 1st round this year a bad thing. Holland can use the early exit to make some much needed changes, and the core of the team will be hungrier going into next year.

This could be like 2001 all over again.
Lets Go:
Red Wings
Tigers
Roughriders
Lions
Spartans
Pistons

#57 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,738 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:19 PM

I don't think there's a lot that needs to be fixed. Mostly we just need to free up cap room by letting Hudler, Stuart, and Holmstrom go.

I think for a few years Holland has planned that this off season he'd make a big move or two. I can see Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith playing full time, which frees up money to sign Parise. Suter, I don't think he'll sign here, but we have enough good guys on D if Lidstrom retires, or Holland will make another mid level White type signing.

We can still win one more Cup with Zetterberg and Datsyuk as the leaders of this team. I think long term, and I don't see going out in the 1st round this year a bad thing. Holland can use the early exit to make some much needed changes, and the core of the team will be hungrier going into next year.

This could be like 2001 all over again.


Not really.

Back then one team could sign Hasek, Hull and Robitaille in the same offseason. Not anymore with the salary cap.

Besides, the 2001 Wings were a lot better than this team. More star players in their prime and a deeper skill set overall with a brighter future. This team doesn't look all that good for the future with this group of players.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#58 Barrie

Barrie

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,920 posts

Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:33 PM

Not really.

Back then one team could sign Hasek, Hull and Robitaille in the same offseason. Not anymore with the salary cap.

Besides, the 2001 Wings were a lot better than this team. More star players in their prime and a deeper skill set overall with a brighter future. This team doesn't look all that good for the future with this group of players.

This team is younger than the 2001 team. Datsyuk and Zetterberg in 2012 are younger than Yzerman and Shanahan were in 2001, plus overall there's more, and better, young talent coming up in 2012 too.

Edited by Barrie, 19 April 2012 - 09:34 PM.

Lets Go:
Red Wings
Tigers
Roughriders
Lions
Spartans
Pistons

#59 plopster

plopster

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 363 posts
  • Location:Charleston, SC

Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:41 PM

All I can say is, there will be moves made because of the available space, and guys like Helm and Eaves will be back. The ones that can take the pressure off the top guys and wear down the opposition, and of course kill penalties. And anyone who has watched this team for the last 10 years can see that Pavel is obviously not at 100% and hasn't seemed to be for a while. I think he may still even be nursing that wrist injury from last year. If he comes back next year healed up, it will make a difference. I don't see Lids retiring because they are playing the outdoor game in Detroit next year. Should be Lids final season and an appropriate farewell. Have an opportunity to get guys like Suter, Luongo, Parise, and maybe others. Definitely let Huds go. Probably see Holmer retire even though I wish he didn't have to. Cleary may have to compete for a spot since he is perpetually at 50%. Franzen will be told to step up or he will be moved. He may be leading the team in scoring, but thats not saying much. Should be putting more offense on the board, especially this time of year. He just seems like he isn't in as good physical condition as other guys. There just isn't much speed there anymore. Filpulla will need to add playing gritty to his repertoire so he can produce this time of year as well. You have to get to the dirty areas and its no secret Babs preaches this. I will be really happy if they get a guy who will drop the guys and not let the other team get away with disrespectful cheap shots on our talent. There should not even be an argument on that. It has become very obvious that this time of year, its a necessity.


If Holland doesn't make at least one of the said changes above, I will be surprised, angry and confused, and like others here, wondering what the hell he is thinking.

Edited by plopster, 19 April 2012 - 09:42 PM.

mccarty3

 

 


#60 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,738 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:43 PM

This team is younger than the 2001 team. Datsyuk and Zetterberg in 2012 are younger than Yzerman and Shanahan were in 2001, plus overall there's more, and better, young talent coming up in 2012 too.


Lidstrom was in his prime and Fedorov was maybe a year or two removed from his. And guys like Yzerman, Shanahan and Chelios still had many years of All-Star caliber play to give. And we had the best checking line in the league.

This year's team has older players that don't have anything more to give, let alone All Star play for several more seasons. I'm talking Bertuzzi, Holmstrom and Cleary. And our checking line is a freaking joke which couldn't intimidate a girl's softball team.

Trust me, we were in much better shape for the future in 2001, even if we didn't go out and sign three Hall of Famers that summer. Don't forget that Hasek retired after 2002 and Robitaille left after 2003. Hull played an extra season after that. Yet the Wings continued to dominate for many more seasons after their departures, because we had up and coming talent in the form of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, plus leftovers from 2001 who were still great players.

When Lidstrom retires, we won't have Hall of Fame players left on our roster and there's no one in our system who will become Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Or even a Kronwall.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 19 April 2012 - 09:46 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users