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Andy Pred 48

Babs calls out Kenny, sort of!

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after listening to Babs post game press interview, i do get a feeling that the coach wasnt pleased with his depth at fwd

and stated that the Preds could roll 4 lines (like we use to) and he was frustrated at not having enough to go back at them.

Well i do tend to agree with Babs on this.

For if we look at both sides additions at trade time;

The Preds added Paul Gaustad, Andrei Kostitsyn, Hal Gill and a freebie from the KHL in Alexander Radulov.

This would be a 2nd line on any team and the Russian boys could be top line on most.

Wings added Quincey and ...............and there you have the ball game folks it aint rocket science to the majority of the

fans and maybe this was Kennys last chance saloon for some of the guys to perform and im afraid most failed.

So Ken has a big job on his hands, not only does he have a unhappy fanbase but it seem's a rather miffed coach.

Will it be the old story of we like what we have and just paper over from within or will he make moves.

Options within the org for potential departee's;

Holmstrom-------Brunnstrom/Axelsson

Stuart----------Exelby/Janik

Quincey---------Kindl

Lidstrom--------Smith

Hudler----------Tatar/Nyqvist

Abdelkader------Sheahan/Andersson.

One thing that seem's to never happen is to trade someone from the roster, maybe its time to be un-Redwing like.

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Babs has been simmering since the trade deadline. He wasn't happy with what we added, he'd repeatedly said this was our best team since 08/09 (and it was before the injuries). He's made more references to the lack of size/toughness on the team than ever before. Now he's saying Nashville has 3 Franchise players and we don't, that they had better forward depth....

I thought Zetterberg was fantastic in the series, but when you go through and look at our group, as a group of forwards … I like the depth on our back end, but I didn't think we had enough up front and it showed in our scoring
I thought Zetterberg's line was good in the series, I didn't think we had enough other pieces. We tried lots of combinations. I don't think we had a lot of help for Pavel.
When you look at our group now, second-round knockout second-round knockout and a first-round knockout. To me, that doesn't look like you're going in the right direction
Edited by Nev

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People around are screaming "Rinne won this series"... I don't agree. It is our forward depth that did not exist. This is partially on Kenny (someone like Umberger or Vermette would have been excellent addition) and partially injuries to Helm and Eaves. Our D and G were actually fine. Almost all games were decided by 1 goal and Jimmy didn't let more than 3. For example, the following offense roster would have taken us further to the second round, we didn't simply had good 3rd and 4th lines...

Franzen - Datsuyk - Bertuzzi

Hudler - Zetter - Filppula

Cleary - Vermette - Abdelkader

Holmstrom - Helm - Eaves

(Nyquist)

similarly, you may take out Vermette and put Umberger on the second line instead while delegating Fil to center the third one.

just one trade for semi-good player and absense of injuries. This happens. I'm dissapointed though.

the worst thing is that our leaders are now one year older.

Edited by RusDRW

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A buddy of mine got a good look at Babs at some point after the game. He said he looked like a man who has just about given up.

Which, to be fair, is kind of what I'd expect after a showing like this.

But, well, yeah.

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A buddy of mine got a good look at Babs at some point after the game. He said he looked like a man who has just about given up.

Which, to be fair, is kind of what I'd expect after a showing like this.

But, well, yeah.

To be fair, I thought Babs looked like he had givin up for most of the game. He looked like the game couldn't get over quick enough. The Wings have a lot of good forwards but they do not have enough great forwards that can win you the game. Even with career numbers, Flip is not good enough and was a no show come playoffs. Mule only plays when he wants. Hudler had a good year and looked like he was trying against the Preds but his lack of size really showed and unless you can pair him with a couple of power forwards he can go else where. The bottom six with the exception of Helm, I don't care if any of them are back. heir job is to check the hell out of the Preds top d-men and chip in offense. Didn't happen.

I agree with Babs. Through loyalty this team has players on it that shouldn't be. I would like to see no less then 5 roster changes.

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Good I hope Ken takes into consideration because I totally agree with Babs. We're missing that elite scorer playing aside Datsyuk ... (Parise).

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There are moments when Mr. Babcock has the same look on his face as Lindy Ruff, for example; with the players he has on his bench, he can't believe the effort he gets.

That smell might be friction at the top.

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Sounded pretty pissed at Franzen during that presser.

And I agree I was excited for 3:48 too, once Helm was done we were done. You cannot beat Nash without guys like Helm/Eaves combo.

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Parise is the name that most people I have spoken to think would do a job for us. He is the right side of thirty and has carried over his form into the post season, something that you'd have difficulty saying for a lot of our guys.

As Red Crazy says five changes could see us going back in the right direction.

Parise and and a D-man of the ilk of Suter/Weber who goes about his job quietly and efficiently without feeling the need to tear about being a banger would compliment our existing lines (easier to say than actually achieve I know!). I haven't really been too impressed with Kindl's performances when I have seen him in comparison to Smith but one of those guys being given a chance along with Nyquist getting more ice time next year could work well with the salary cap in mind.

It's going to be a really interesting off season. Lets hope Holland has the inclination to make some real changes. If not I'll still be up at 3 in the morning cheering them on though.

dirtydangles likes this

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Our 4 lines as a whole didnt play well, Z and Dats played well. Flip played well most of the time and Miller was ok too. The rest of the team was so so, I still dont know why Emmerton, Holmstrom and Cleary kept playing with (in my mind at least) some better options in GR. Will we keep Emmerton here for the next two years? I would have taken Tatar, Andersson, Sheahan, Brunnstrom or Mursak instead of the above three mentioned. Kenny should be a busy man this summer. After a couple rounds of golf that is...

lil Wing's fan likes this

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I knew there was trouble as soon as I read a Freep article about how the Wings needed Filppula to become sniper and save the day. When your hopes rest on Flip, you're in trouble.

I think the experiment involving hoping players play above their normal skill levels is over. A team full of role players, most very good in their own right, just doesn't do anything if they can't score consistently.

I fully expect a strong faceoff specialist and a top line scorer to join the team in the summer. There are a lot of possible scenarios, but we could end up seeing something like this:

Parise-Datsyuk-Zetterberg

Franzen-Faceoff Specialist-Bertuzzi

Nyquist-Filppula-Eaves

Miller-Helm-Abdelkader

I doubt Flip would be on the 3rd line, but that could potentially be a Cup winning forward corps right there.

Uncle Danny and Hockey13Playa like this

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Do you think it comes down to the "hunger" for the cup? The majority of this roster won it in 08. I've always wondered if some players think "Well I've already won the cup, let's play mediocre so I can go home and play golf early this summer."

If you inject more youth from GR, you get more speed, grit, and willingness to advance further in the Playoffs. That's why I hope to see more of Smith, Nyquist, and others next season.

GMRwings1983 likes this

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Just watched the presser and I can say I have never been happier with a Wing's coach. Sounds like he has been upset with the skill and effort of some of the dead weight for a while. Loved his reaction to the Franzen question and the way he called out the other forwards. I do not think this team needs an overhaul but some fresh faces would be awesome, maybe too many guys on the team are too comfortable with their job security. Giver Helm the recognition he deserves was great as well. Excellent job Babs!

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Babcock calls out Kenny, sort of.... and rightfully so!!! It is time to make some significant changes. Our power play did not work as our enforcer or as our trade deadline addition. Our philosophy that has worked so well for so long has got to evolve and with it some changes in the roster are required. There are few forward I would consider safe (Dats, Z, Helm, Nyquist). All others I would have to re-evaluate their role in our new scheme and consider moving or not signing them if they don`t fit in. Defense is looking fine to me and Jimmy needs a real backup... maybe even a youngin that will eventually compete for the #1 role with him. Finally our new assistant coaches better figure out how to make the special teams special again or I would send them packing! Its not dooms day and the whole of the team doesn't need to be gutted but Holland has to see things for what they really are. The team we have now (actually since our game 7 loss to the pens) does not have all the ingredients and the proof is in the pudding. We need some play off players and we need to be rid of these players we are waiting year after year to finally step up and play consistently to their potential... The Hudler's and Filpula's have taken small steps when we needed them to take big steps. And Lang.. er' I mean Franzen?! Come on man! I'm hoping for an active off season and a re-vamped and re-engergized team in 2012/2013.

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Well, am I the only one who see a lot of positive stuff in this quick loss? You shouldn't go any further than this thread where most people are way more constructive compared to the last two years' losses. I think Babcock and Holland understand situation even better than we do. I hope this offseason we'll see moves that may make our team a bit better, particularly, bugger, younger, stronger and better offensively. We have all the tools to do that as the only constant we have to worry about is Bert's 2.1M for two years. If not, then we need to do something with management.

Edited by RusDRW

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Do you think it comes down to the "hunger" for the cup? The majority of this roster won it in 08. I've always wondered if some players think "Well I've already won the cup, let's play mediocre so I can go home and play golf early this summer."

I agree with this statement in addition to the fact that some of our players were also signed to long term contracts. Winning the cup then getting multi-million multi-year deals leads to complacency. What more do some of these players have left to accomplish? Shorter term deals 2-3yrs maybe 4 at the most would be more ideal and keep players responsible during the duration of their contract. This year this team with the exception of Zetterberg/Dats (imo) looked deflated and uninspired to play playoff hockey. Both players are left on lines with no help from their teamates they work their asses off and then have no options for passes or scoring chances.

As far as Babs I don't know what he could have done. I have to wonder though because I've always thought of him as getting his team to play "hard nose" hockey. Crashing the net and getting the so called "garbage goals". Perhaps knowing he was unable to get get his players to go to the net he opted to play the "Dave Lewis" play shooting from the outside with hopes of getting Holland to make some changes to our flawed system. I have to wonder why players weren't going to the net. Where they never told to? Or was it simply that they made a concious decision not to? I remember someone in another forum mentioning the fact this was oilers/ducks all over again high shot totals but no real scoring chances. Which they should have learned their lesson from that goalies are too good these days to shoot the majority of your shots from the blueline or outside the circles compounded with the fact that no one is going to the net.

There definatly needs to be changes.

Edited by fixxxer

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Always loved and still love Babs......as professional athletes, your job is to perform as professional elite athletes and that does NOT mean rely on your coaches for motivation....this isnt junior high where a good ass chewing will make you run faster.

Our effort for whatever reason was not there for a lot of the season...during our home streak we got some bounces and had some jump....after injuries we never meshed again and chose to floAt.

If we have Heelmer for this series we win or a least we are still plAying, i strongly believe that. He alone sparks this team with his heart!

We need a few more peices and we will be a cup contender next yeAr.

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Babs has been simmering since the trade deadline. He wasn't happy with what we added, he'd repeatedly said this was our best team since 08/09 (and it was before the injuries). He's made more references to the lack of size/toughness on the team than ever before. Now he's saying Nashville has 3 Franchise players and we don't, that they had better forward depth....

He's actually been upset since last summer at the draft, I believe. When SJ got Burns I think he said some stuff implying that our rivals got significantly better and we didn't do anything.

Rick D likes this

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He also said this was the least talented team he's coached but the most hard working. Well, we lost the hard work

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We need Warriors and not Prima Donna Girls (Hudler/Franzen...)

Lidstrom - I don't think we can replace him with Suter or Weber. Best choice would be Karlsson but that's not going to happen. Let's not forget that we have Kronwall who can make post-Lids era easier.

Stuart - If he's going to leave I would like to bring some like Dan Girardi (right hand, physical, plays on PP and PK).

Hudler - See ya

Franzen - Trade

Ericsson - Trade for someone like McQuaid (right hand, ultra turbo physical).

Zetterberg and Flip just doesn't work. I like Flip but I don't know if he's right fit for Zetterberg and we are looking to add top six (via trades) forward...

Holland MUST bring some size and tougness (players like Prust, Moen, Boyle, Neil, Rupp, Stewart, Gaustad, Fisher...) Even Konopka is playing some good hockey.

My lines:

Parise (I think it will happen) - Dats - Bert (big body)

Clarkson/Stewart (or another big) - Zetterberg - Nyquist (impressed by this guy - he needs to play)

Moen/Neil - Flip - Eaves

Miller - Helm - Rupp/Gaustad

Abdelakder

Lids - White (Girardi)

Kronwall - Smith

Quincey (is just not top 4 material) - McQuaid

Top six forwards can play on PP

Bottom six can play on PK

Kindl

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Just watched the post game press. Every other sentence, Babs is sending a message to Holland. "They had 7 top 6 forwards ... we didn't have enough, ... we're not as deep as we used to be ... we're not good enough".

Thinks defence was fine - 26SOG during the season, 23 SOG in playoffs is good defence.

Only comment he might wished he had back, "I don't know any team that has 3 franchise players, Weber, Suter, Rinne" Um, how about Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom Mike?

"Not going in the right direction" (about 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss) - good thing is that there is only one direction to go. Heaven forbid we actually have to fight to get 7th or 8th spot!

Edited by RedWingsRox
Nev and Rick like this

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He's actually been upset since last summer at the draft, I believe. When SJ got Burns I think he said some stuff implying that our rivals got significantly better and we didn't do anything.

Yes, he called it "a golden pickup" and said he was "pissed off". I felt the same way. Some people were calling for Babcock's head, I on the other hand wish he could do the Scotty thing and be coach/GM. He has known what the team needed since 2009 and he is continually disappointed by Holland. Its really been brewing for a while.

Simply put, Babcock has a sub-par roster, and it forces him to slot players in the wrong positions. Bertuzzi should be a 3rd line winger at best. Hudler didn't play awful, and actually net two goals by going to the net, but he adds little outside of the odd goal and his size and speed are a huge issue. Same with Franzen, except replace "size" with effort and guts.

The roster has little variety in the type of players; simply "variety" because of skill level. Besides Helm Miller and Eaves (Abdelkader has been a bit of a disappointment), the Wings have zero sandpaper and a plethora of soft "skill" players filling gaps. Prime example being a 4th line consisting of over-the-hill 2nd liners (Holmstrom) and AHLers who were drafted for skill, not grind (Emmerton, Mursak).

Huge changes NEED to happen, we'll see what Holland is made of.

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Well, am I the only one who see a lot of positive stuff in this quick loss? You shouldn't go any further than this thread where most people are way more constructive compared to the last two years' losses. I think Babcock and Holland understand situation even better than we do. I hope this offseason we'll see moves that may make our team a bit better, particularly, bugger, younger, stronger and better offensively. We have all the tools to do that as the only constant we have to worry about is Bert's 2.1M for two years. If not, then we need to do something with management.

I believe that Babs gets it, & I am really happy about that. Holland on the other hand has a different philosophy. He isn't stupid, he has had great success. His style of team is not going to be effective in the NHL for the next few years. He refuses to abandon his philosophy (or he would have two years ago when he needed to tweak the roster). What he does isn't going to work. Next year won't be any better, and it will be his last year.

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