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Babs calls out Kenny, sort of!


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#21 Jeff6851

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

He also said this was the least talented team he's coached but the most hard working. Well, we lost the hard work
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#22 Dominator2005

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

We need Warriors and not Prima Donna Girls (Hudler/Franzen...)


Lidstrom - I don't think we can replace him with Suter or Weber. Best choice would be Karlsson but that's not going to happen. Let's not forget that we have Kronwall who can make post-Lids era easier.

Stuart - If he's going to leave I would like to bring some like Dan Girardi (right hand, physical, plays on PP and PK).

Hudler - See ya

Franzen - Trade

Ericsson - Trade for someone like McQuaid (right hand, ultra turbo physical).


Zetterberg and Flip just doesn't work. I like Flip but I don't know if he's right fit for Zetterberg and we are looking to add top six (via trades) forward...


Holland MUST bring some size and tougness (players like Prust, Moen, Boyle, Neil, Rupp, Stewart, Gaustad, Fisher...) Even Konopka is playing some good hockey.

My lines:

Parise (I think it will happen) - Dats - Bert (big body)
Clarkson/Stewart (or another big) - Zetterberg - Nyquist (impressed by this guy - he needs to play)
Moen/Neil - Flip - Eaves
Miller - Helm - Rupp/Gaustad
Abdelakder

Lids - White (Girardi)
Kronwall - Smith
Quincey (is just not top 4 material) - McQuaid

Top six forwards can play on PP
Bottom six can play on PK

Kindl
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#23 RedWingsRox

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

Just watched the post game press. Every other sentence, Babs is sending a message to Holland. "They had 7 top 6 forwards ... we didn't have enough, ... we're not as deep as we used to be ... we're not good enough".

Thinks defence was fine - 26SOG during the season, 23 SOG in playoffs is good defence.

Only comment he might wished he had back, "I don't know any team that has 3 franchise players, Weber, Suter, Rinne" Um, how about Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom Mike?

"Not going in the right direction" (about 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss) - good thing is that there is only one direction to go. Heaven forbid we actually have to fight to get 7th or 8th spot!

Edited by RedWingsRox, 21 April 2012 - 07:46 PM.


#24 b.shanafan14

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:34 AM

He's actually been upset since last summer at the draft, I believe. When SJ got Burns I think he said some stuff implying that our rivals got significantly better and we didn't do anything.

Yes, he called it "a golden pickup" and said he was "pissed off". I felt the same way. Some people were calling for Babcock's head, I on the other hand wish he could do the Scotty thing and be coach/GM. He has known what the team needed since 2009 and he is continually disappointed by Holland. Its really been brewing for a while.

Simply put, Babcock has a sub-par roster, and it forces him to slot players in the wrong positions. Bertuzzi should be a 3rd line winger at best. Hudler didn't play awful, and actually net two goals by going to the net, but he adds little outside of the odd goal and his size and speed are a huge issue. Same with Franzen, except replace "size" with effort and guts.

The roster has little variety in the type of players; simply "variety" because of skill level. Besides Helm Miller and Eaves (Abdelkader has been a bit of a disappointment), the Wings have zero sandpaper and a plethora of soft "skill" players filling gaps. Prime example being a 4th line consisting of over-the-hill 2nd liners (Holmstrom) and AHLers who were drafted for skill, not grind (Emmerton, Mursak).

Huge changes NEED to happen, we'll see what Holland is made of.

#25 pondrocket

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

Well, am I the only one who see a lot of positive stuff in this quick loss? You shouldn't go any further than this thread where most people are way more constructive compared to the last two years' losses. I think Babcock and Holland understand situation even better than we do. I hope this offseason we'll see moves that may make our team a bit better, particularly, bugger, younger, stronger and better offensively. We have all the tools to do that as the only constant we have to worry about is Bert's 2.1M for two years. If not, then we need to do something with management.


I believe that Babs gets it, & I am really happy about that. Holland on the other hand has a different philosophy. He isn't stupid, he has had great success. His style of team is not going to be effective in the NHL for the next few years. He refuses to abandon his philosophy (or he would have two years ago when he needed to tweak the roster). What he does isn't going to work. Next year won't be any better, and it will be his last year.

#26 achildr1

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

Do you think it comes down to the "hunger" for the cup? The majority of this roster won it in 08. I've always wondered if some players think "Well I've already won the cup, let's play mediocre so I can go home and play golf early this summer."

If you inject more youth from GR, you get more speed, grit, and willingness to advance further in the Playoffs. That's why I hope to see more of Smith, Nyquist, and others next season.


Maybe not to that extreme but I do believe a team full of guys with Rings means a bigger temptation to not care so much about losing. On a relative note, did anyone watch the pregame interviews? Abdelkader and Stuart looked and spoke like they didn't believe we were going to win. Stuart looked like he couldn't care less about it and Abdelkader looked mad to even be a part of it. Like they didn't even want to try to come back from the deficit. Pathetic really. I believe this team needs a serious shake-up. Something to wake up the guys who float around or only play hard 1/3 of the game.

Holland, although I love that he's ours, I think has really made some strange decisions the last couple years. Ericsson (although he was very good in the playoffs) getting that contract tells the team you can be near useless and get a 300% raise while Draper (We really could have used a veteran faceoff specialist who goes hard every shift this playoffs) plays his heart out for 15 years and gets forced out the door. Lidstrom is on the verge of retiring and you sit on 6 million in cap space and let your rivals upgrade. This from a team that let Quincey go to be loyal to a 47 year old defenceman only to trade a 1st round pick to get him back. Same team that kept Maltby 3 years too long, Osgood, and brought back McCarty as basically a pure favor. If Homer is booted this year, he should be mad. And Lidstrom might follow him out the door, because what has Kenny been doing to make sure he stays?

#27 jroc86

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:46 AM

This will be Ken Hollands most aggressive off-season in years guranteed. We dont need to rebuild - we still have special players, most of whom still have a handful of good years left. What we need to do I reinforce that core of good players with a stud up front (Parise/Semin) and the best free agent available on D (not saying Suter because them beating us really makes him coming here unlikely IMO). A few young guns added to the lineup and one or two sandpaper guys that can bang the body and fight and well be good.

Stuarts gone, Holmers gone, Emmertons gota go, need a backup goalie, and despite his scoring touch I think Hudlers might be let go because hell likely want a raise and Id rather take a bigger/tough more consistent presence if its available via trade or free agency.

Holland can plently of capsapce and an easter basket of almost NHL ready B-level prospects to sweeten deals. This team needs to reload in a few areas and well be in better shape a year from now.

#28 b.shanafan14

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

Babcock in the presser summed it up well, here's a few gems:

Zetterberg's line was good. Filppula is a skater and gives someone for Z to transport the puck with (despite scorecard)

Pavel didn't have any help from his wingers; no one who would skate or compete, thus the musical chairs of wingers on the top line.

Asked about Franzen not showing up, Babcock said "ask him".

Not good enough up front and it was "VERY apparent"

Darren Helm pretty much makes this team. His injury killed the bottom six and saved Nashville a lot of hard miles.

"We're not interested in scratching and clawing to make the playoffs; we want to win." (referring to the last three seasons decline)

#29 b.shanafan14

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:05 AM

Lidstrom is on the verge of retiring and you sit on 6 million in cap space and let your rivals upgrade.

This more than anything all season (besides the lack of compete) infuriates me to no end... Lidstrom stays because he thinks the team can win a cup and is willing to do whatever they can to make it happen. What does he think now, after a first round disappointment and a season marred by injury?

Leaving money on the table is NOT something this team is used to doing. And as far as the trade deadline, and the high price for certain players like Gaustad: what percentage of the Wings uber deep prospect pool are going to be Nyquist, Helm, or Filppula versus those that will turn out to be Emmerton, Meech, or Ritola?

#30 greenrebellion

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:10 AM

The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.

#31 RusDRW

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.


Grand Rapids?
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#32 Dominator2005

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:33 AM

The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.



Desperate teams like Montreal and Toronto could be interested in Franzen, I say Franzen for Schenn... :)


Parise - Dats - Morrow (I think he's a FA)
Bert - Zetterberg - Nyquist
Moen - Flip - Eaves
Miller - Helm - Rupp/Gaustad
Abdelakder

Lids - Schenn
Kronwall - White
Quincey - Smith/McQuaid
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#33 b.shanafan14

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game.

Trade him to someone, anyone. He is nothing without Datsyuk spoon-feeding him and that's a complete waste of the best center in the game. Nothing he does makes the team better, he is a beneficiary, not a contributor. Move his contract while it is still possible to someone desperate and stupid. He doesn't belong in the top-six with the caliber players we have in Zetterberg and Datsyuk. He already hasn't lived up to his contract, and on the third line, without D or Z, he might provide depth, but would be unable to score 20+ goals in a season.

If we don't move him now, we are poisoned by his attitude and cap-hit for the next 8 years.

#34 dragonballgtz

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:44 AM

People around are screaming "Rinne won this series"... I don't agree. It is our forward depth that did not exist. This is partially on Kenny (someone like Umberger or Vermette would have been excellent addition) and partially injuries to Helm and Eaves. Our D and G were actually fine. Almost all games were decided by 1 goal and Jimmy didn't let more than 3. For example, the following offense roster would have taken us further to the second round, we didn't simply had good 3rd and 4th lines...

Our D was atrocious, way too many mistakes happened and it cost us.

Quincey is not as solid as I hoped for.

Woohoo another season coming up with Bert and Mule in our top six. <_<

I still don't understand why Holland gave Bert a 2 year contract. /facepalm

Also unless Cleary comes back 100% he will be useless next season as well.

#35 RedWingsRox

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:51 AM

Speaking of Quincey, our ace in the pocket, trade deadline acquisition. Wasn't he in on that first goal with a give away?

#36 achildr1

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:04 AM

Our D was atrocious, way too many mistakes happened and it cost us.

Quincey is not as solid as I hoped for.

Woohoo another season coming up with Bert and Mule in our top six. <_<

I still don't understand why Holland gave Bert a 2 year contract. /facepalm

Also unless Cleary comes back 100% he will be useless next season as well.


Anyone notice that the pick we traded for Quincey is probably lower than you thought it was going to be? 23rd overall I think. Ugh.

Right with you about Bert. One year...great, I'm down with that. Two?! Uh, this is a 45 point player...in your top 6. I don't know if he would take to a checking role in year two.

Our D has been bad for awhile now. '08 seems like 10 years ago. Stuart needs to go, Lidstrom has to stay, and Suter needs an offer.

Cleary is the Brandon Inge of the Wings. Hard worker, great effort but always hurt and inconsistent, if you have to actually count on his production...watch out. I like Cleary more than Inge though...he has a less of the entitlement attitude.

#37 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:04 AM

We do need to make some moves, but it's not just about depth.

Nashville doesn't have any elite scorers, yet they had no problem scoring. That's because of the stupid turnovers we kept making.

We need to go back to having a solid defense which doesn't turn the puck over.
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#38 Red Crazy

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

Bert and Cleary either need to be 3rd line guys with Helmer or shown the door. I would trade BOTH Flip and Franzen. Franzen is lazy and should have been shown the door after his the regular season dosen't interest me comment, that came after getting his big contract too. Flip is getting better but unless he is third line he just dosen't fit. He is way to soft in the corners and will not go to the front of the net.
Out- Franzen, Flip, Emmerton, Hudler, Stuart(unless he wants to stay), Eaves(I think is done)

In- Parise, Iginla/Nash, Smith(full time), Nyquist(full time), Prust, Slater

I think Calgary might come to the table to deal Franzen.

We do need to make some moves, but it's not just about depth.

Nashville doesn't have any elite scorers, yet they had no problem scoring. That's because of the stupid turnovers we kept making.

We need to go back to having a solid defense which doesn't turn the puck over.

Thats a good point. I do think having Smith up full time would help with puck movement. I am not sold on Quincey or Ericsson as puck movers though.

#39 Nev

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:39 PM

Leaving money on the table is NOT something this team is used to doing. And as far as the trade deadline, and the high price for certain players like Gaustad: what percentage of the Wings uber deep prospect pool are going to be Nyquist, Helm, or Filppula versus those that will turn out to be Emmerton, Meech, or Ritola?



This is something I've tried to to articulate before, all hockey fans have a massive tendancy to over-rate their own prospects. Plus it seems like all our top prospects are (yet more) undersized skill players.

The big question is what do we do with Franzen. The contract is brutal and he just doesn't seem to care anymore. During the regular season everyone was saying "but at least he's a playoff performer," but now he's not even that. One lucky goal and invisible besides that despite playing with arguably one of the best players in the game


Trade him for something, anything, anyone. Even if its a salary dump type trade. Right now its more important to shift his bone-idle arse out the door than it is to get "value" for him. A message needs to be sent to the entire roster that loafing will NOT be tolerated, and that is 10 times more important than whatever player or picks we get in return.
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#40 Dabura

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:11 PM

Sign Parise and Suter. Flip+Franzen for Nash/Iginla? I wouldn't mind Doan.

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