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#41 puckbags

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:10 AM

Absolute pipe dream of a roster, but imagine if the Wings were to pull this off:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($6.800m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Darren Helm ($1.100m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.966m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Paul Gaustad ($3.300m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($3.200m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Ryan Suter ($7.250m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,614,962; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $685,038
Trade Cleary and Quincey for whatever - cap dumps.


I would rather Lidstrom retire then you insult one of the greatest d men of all time with 3.2 milliion dollars per year. Pipe dream is right.

"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Refuses to Work Hard"

 

 


#42 CheliFan89

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:15 AM

Why not do it in Detroit? Parise could have the possibility of playing with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and if Lidstrom stays Suter could possibly play with him. No where else will they BOTH be able to play with that level of talent.

#43 centcougar07

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:37 AM

Why not do it in Detroit? Parise could have the possibility of playing with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and if Lidstrom stays Suter could possibly play with him. No where else will they BOTH be able to play with that level of talent.


Yeah but there is no future with that. Wings are getting old. You look at Datsyuk he's 33, soon to be 34 and with the knee this year we're already starting to see the effects of age on the core guys. It's only going to get worse from here on out in regards to that. So yeah, maybe they could be good for a year or two but they are both going to want 5-6 year deals and so they are more apt to go somewhere they can win now AND in the future. They will want to go somewhere that is trending upwards so they can be assured of their future not just the short term. That place is not Detroit unfortunately.

#44 Heaten

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:15 AM

Yeah but there is no future with that. Wings are getting old. You look at Datsyuk he's 33, soon to be 34 and with the knee this year we're already starting to see the effects of age on the core guys. It's only going to get worse from here on out in regards to that. So yeah, maybe they could be good for a year or two but they are both going to want 5-6 year deals and so they are more apt to go somewhere they can win now AND in the future. They will want to go somewhere that is trending upwards so they can be assured of their future not just the short term. That place is not Detroit unfortunately.


Not saying these guys are going to sign in Detroit, but I can't disagree with the bolded statement more. Red Wings franchise still has the best hockey minds running it and an owner willing to spend the money. Wings are also top 10 in the league in drafting and have some interesting prospects in the pipeline.

Detroit will always be a good destination for any hockey player as long as the franchise is backed with the dedication and class it currently has. I don't know about you, but working for a place you know will treat you right and take care of you is more desirable than other factors.

The only argument you have is "players are getting old"... That's fine, when those players get near the end of their prime, Red Wings will re-load just like they always do since Illitch bought the team.

As far as who Holland lands this off-season, who knows. I'm sure he'll target best available to fill the holes they need filled. I'm also sure he won't overpay. I think Holland plays it by ear. If he get's the chance to build the team into a real cup contender, he'll do it as long as it doesn't hamper the future. If nothing is available at a reasonable deal, he'll re-tool and make this team a 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team. I think Holland is sniffing for a fair deal.




#45 centcougar07

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:48 AM

Not saying these guys are going to sign in Detroit, but I can't disagree with the bolded statement more. Red Wings franchise still has the best hockey minds running it and an owner willing to spend the money. Wings are also top 10 in the league in drafting and have some interesting prospects in the pipeline.

Detroit will always be a good destination for any hockey player as long as the franchise is backed with the dedication and class it currently has. I don't know about you, but working for a place you know will treat you right and take care of you is more desirable than other factors.

The only argument you have is "players are getting old"... That's fine, when those players get near the end of their prime, Red Wings will re-load just like they always do since Illitch bought the team.

As far as who Holland lands this off-season, who knows. I'm sure he'll target best available to fill the holes they need filled. I'm also sure he won't overpay. I think Holland plays it by ear. If he get's the chance to build the team into a real cup contender, he'll do it as long as it doesn't hamper the future. If nothing is available at a reasonable deal, he'll re-tool and make this team a 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team. I think Holland is sniffing for a fair deal.




Players to replace guys like Datsyuk and Z and Lidstrom.. No. There might be a few "interesting" prospects in the system but none that make you look and say "wow, they could really be a star". I'm not saying that they aren't quality players potentially, but they aren't Datsyuk's. They draft well no doubt about it but eventually having such low draft picks for years and years will catch up. I posted in another thread that I think Parise will go to Minnesota in the off-season and that Suter may follow him there. Minnesota has finally put the pieces in place and rebuilt the right way. They have had a lot of high draft picks and they are only going to get better in the years to come. I have researched this a lot and could go into detail about it all but it would be a long comment. Anyway, that's the type of team Parise and high end guys will want to go to. They want to know that when they are 32, 33 they are going to be on a great team and Detroit doesn't really offer that because of the lack of star potential in the system and the aging roster as is. I just don't see it. I think the Wings will continue to be a good, quality team.. But lets face it, the days of domination are over with. I think Nashville gave a rude awaking to that.

And as far as treating players right, I don't think there is a team in the league that really treats them wrong. All I'm trying to say is that the Wings need to be honest about the future. This team needs to get younger because in a few years, the core of players Detroit has banked on for a decade or so won't be here or at least won't be producing the same way. Detroit is kinda sliding into that 7-8 seed year to year area. I mean the writing is on the wall you can see that the franchise in general is trending downward from where it has been.

And lastly, the Wings are sure to go after top guys, but as you said they will not overpay. Some other teams will because they can afford to do so. Again, teams like Minnesota or Dallas have come out and said they are ready to bid high for these guys. Any offer Holland makes is going to get matched or bested by another team. I don't see the Wings getting Parise or Suter. IMO.



#46 Heaten

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:44 AM

Players to replace guys like Datsyuk and Z and Lidstrom.. No. There might be a few "interesting" prospects in the system but none that make you look and say "wow, they could really be a star". I'm not saying that they aren't quality players potentially, but they aren't Datsyuk's. They draft well no doubt about it but eventually having such low draft picks for years and years will catch up. I posted in another thread that I think Parise will go to Minnesota in the off-season and that Suter may follow him there. Minnesota has finally put the pieces in place and rebuilt the right way. They have had a lot of high draft picks and they are only going to get better in the years to come. I have researched this a lot and could go into detail about it all but it would be a long comment. Anyway, that's the type of team Parise and high end guys will want to go to. They want to know that when they are 32, 33 they are going to be on a great team and Detroit doesn't really offer that because of the lack of star potential in the system and the aging roster as is. I just don't see it. I think the Wings will continue to be a good, quality team.. But lets face it, the days of domination are over with. I think Nashville gave a rude awaking to that.

And as far as treating players right, I don't think there is a team in the league that really treats them wrong. All I'm trying to say is that the Wings need to be honest about the future. This team needs to get younger because in a few years, the core of players Detroit has banked on for a decade or so won't be here or at least won't be producing the same way. Detroit is kinda sliding into that 7-8 seed year to year area. I mean the writing is on the wall you can see that the franchise in general is trending downward from where it has been.

And lastly, the Wings are sure to go after top guys, but as you said they will not overpay. Some other teams will because they can afford to do so. Again, teams like Minnesota or Dallas have come out and said they are ready to bid high for these guys. Any offer Holland makes is going to get matched or bested by another team. I don't see the Wings getting Parise or Suter. IMO.



Interesting because the Zetterberg's and Datsyuk's, and Crosby's and Malkin's are all golfing right now... Yet the teams that don't have the hall-of-famers are advancing on to the 2nd round and are in the mix to winning a Stanley cup. Hell, Boston did it last year.

Your flawed logic is believing a team needs to be built with all-star players to compete. Wings have "interesting" enough prospects to keep this team in the top 6 in the west after you include in the missing pieces via UFA signings.

It's not all doom and gloom.

EDIT:
I just re-read your post again and I now feel the need to pick it apart. It's just flawed in so many ways. I don't really want to get into a long and useless debate because I don't have time for it. And I know emotions are high right now because DRWs didn't win the cup.

But lets face it, the days of domination are over with. I think Nashville gave a rude awaking to that.


No, Nashville didn't give us a rude awaking of that. Bettman had this plan in place since the salary cap came in affect. It was only a matter of time before it caught up. That said, Holland is doing everything the right way. Other team's management are in willing to mortgage the future to win it all now. I appreciate Holland's approach.

They have had a lot of high draft picks and they are only going to get better in the years to come.




Having high-end draft picks mean nothing if they don't draft well. I think I read somewhere that Detroit's prospect pool was top 5 in the league. yet they don't get the high-end draft picks. That's impressive.


They want to know that when they are 32, 33 they are going to be on a great team and Detroit doesn't really offer that because of the lack of star potential in the system and the aging roster as is




he could go to minny, but c'mon, who knows where that team will be in 7 years. Heck, wild could sell out to Atlanta and become the "Atlanta Thrashers" in the next 3 years. Nobody knows. Minny might be desirable to him, but he's not the only UFA available before Zetterberg and Dats exceed their prime. Parise is just one player; he's not the only player.




And as far as treating players right, I don't think there is a team in the league that really treats them wrong.




guess we could ask cristobal huet and devin setoguchi their opinion...


Detroit is kinda sliding into that 7-8 seed year to year area. I mean the writing is on the wall you can see that the franchise in general is trending downward from where it has been.




Mhmmm, what I saw written on the wall was Howard pulled a groin, Ericssion hurt his wrist, Helm hurt knee, eaves jaw fell off, Lidstrom blocked a shot and got a deep bone bruise, Kindl hurt his upper body, Ian white fractured a cheek bone, and Datsyuk had an ankle issue. What does that mean? Does this mean Howard, Helm, Kindl, Ericsson, Eaves are all old and past their primes because they are injury prone? Or were these fluke injuries and bad luck? I suspect the latter.


Don't be a chicken little.


And lastly, the Wings are sure to go after top guys, but as you said they will not overpay. Some other teams will because they can afford to do so. Again, teams like Minnesota or Dallas have come out and said they are ready to bid high for these guys. Any offer Holland makes is going to get matched or bested by another team. I don't see the Wings getting Parise or Suter. IMO.




That's why Red Wings are the class of the league the past decade years. Let the bottom feeders overpay, it might get some fans to see a game or two once in awhile.


Parise and Suter aren't the only two hockey players to ever hit UFA and won't be the last. Holland should make a strong pitch to them, but not offer to pay more than fair market value or give them a stupid long contract.


Edited by Heaten, 23 April 2012 - 03:06 AM.


#47 centcougar07

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

Interesting because the Zetterberg's and Datsyuk's, and Crosby's and Malkin's are all golfing right now... Yet the teams that don't have the hall-of-famers are advancing on to the 2nd round and are in the mix to winning a Stanley cup. Hell, Boston did it last year.

Your flawed logic is believing a team needs to be built with all-star players to compete. Wings have "interesting" enough prospects to keep this team in the top 6 in the west after you include in the missing pieces via UFA signings.

It's not all doom and gloom.

EDIT:
I just re-read your post again and I now feel the need to pick it apart. It's just flawed in so many ways. I don't really want to get into a long and useless debate because I don't have time for it. And I know emotions are high right now because DRWs didn't win the cup.



No, Nashville didn't give us a rude awaking of that. Bettman had this plan in place since the salary cap came in affect. It was only a matter of time before it caught up. That said, Holland is doing everything the right way. Other team's management are in willing to mortgage the future to win it all now. I appreciate Holland's approach.



Having high-end draft picks mean nothing if they don't draft well. I think I read somewhere that Detroit's prospect pool was top 5 in the league. yet they don't get the high-end draft picks. That's impressive.



he could go to minny, but c'mon, who knows where that team will be in 7 years. Heck, wild could sell out to Atlanta and become the "Atlanta Thrashers" in the next 3 years. Nobody knows. Minny might be desirable to him, but he's not the only UFA available before Zetterberg and Dats exceed their prime. Parise is just one player; he's not the only player.




guess we could ask cristobal huet and devin setoguchi their opinion...



Mhmmm, what I saw written on the wall was Howard pulled a groin, Ericssion hurt his wrist, Helm hurt knee, eaves jaw fell off, Lidstrom blocked a shot and got a deep bone bruise, Kindl hurt his upper body, Ian white fractured a cheek bone, and Datsyuk had an ankle issue. What does that mean? Does this mean Howard, Helm, Kindl, Ericsson, Eaves are all old and past their primes because they are injury prone? Or were these fluke injuries and bad luck? I suspect the latter.

Don't be a chicken little.



That's why Red Wings are the class of the league the past decade years. Let the bottom feeders overpay, it might get some fans to see a game or two once in awhile.

Parise and Suter aren't the only two hockey players to ever hit UFA and won't be the last. Holland should make a strong pitch to them, but not offer to pay more than fair market value or give them a stupid long contract.



I just don't see it. They may not be in the playoffs but I'll take them any day over your average joe type of player. Also, I'm sure where you read that the Wings had a top 5 prospect pool. The last updated page I saw was written a few weeks ago and had the Wings at 21. Prospects may not mean anything in terms of guarantees but they are a point for predicting the future of a franchise. I'm not sure why you think that the Wild would sell out to Atlanta, I'm assuming that was a joke. And yeah, nobody knows where any team will be in 7 years but based on all factors (prospects, draft picks, core players, etc.) it sure looks like they will be in a very good position. Them and teams like Florida and Edmonton. I know it's hard to admit, but teams like that are in a MUCH better position going forward. Talking specifically about Parise and Suter, I think that given everything, Parise will probably go back home to play in his hometown in Minny because his heart is there and with the future they have there he knows that he can win there. I do a lot of scouting/research of every team in the league in my spare time it's kind of a hobby of mine. That's how I've formed this opinion of him and potentially Suter as well going to Minnesota. They have the cap room to spend a ton of money just like the Wings. They have a ton of high end prospects that are considered "can't miss" by many league scouts and I believe they were first in the NHL until they got derailed by injuries. I heard a radio interview with Parise saying he loves Minnesota and thinks it would be cool for "a kid to play in his hometown". Again this is all just speculation here because nothing is ever certainty in pro sports but you can play the odds and I simply don't see Detroit being the landing spot for these guys. I'm not saying it's the end of the world here, the Wings will still be competitive in the future, but I honestly don't see them being more than a 7 or 8 seed in the playoffs year to year. Maybe 5 or 6. And again, I'm just basing this on my comparison to notes on the other teams around the league. We'll see what happens this summer.





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