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We Need to Get Tougher to Play Against


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#61 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

I think the bored to death JLA crowd wouldn't mind it either.


From my time here at LGW is should be pretty obvious that I'm against having fighters on this team. As long as we win, I don't care about seeing scraps. However, there's something to be said for this. Remember back in 2004 before the Pistons went on their 3 years of dominance and they brought Rasheed in? I recall Dumars, or Larry Brown, can't remember who, saying that Rasheed wasn't really the best at anything. But he had the right attitude. Maybe Suh is another good example of attitude.

I love our hockey team, and won't stop no matter what they do in the off season. But worse things would happen than bringing in some mean bastard with an attitude. Might be the kind of spark plug that any team needs in order to stay motivated during the grind.

...but if we do chase a fighter, obviously he'll need to be the 13th forward.

Edited by kipwinger, 08 June 2012 - 02:28 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#62 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:26 PM

If the bottom 6 next season looks like this:

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Prust-Abdelkader-Eaves

I'll be a happy man, and for s***s and giggles lets get Colton Orr as a 13th forward :hehe:

I don't feel like arguing about this subject much, because holy hell have we been down this road before. But it's quite clear that the Wings bottom 6 needs a bit of a revamping when the most physical forward consistently in the playoffs was Cleary on one frickin leg. After Helm went down we didn't have a forecheck or a physical presence, that's no good. Of course we need some more goals, and Parise is exactly the type of guy we need, but there are more areas that need to be fixed on the Wings.

Edited by Detroit # 1 Fan, 08 June 2012 - 03:27 PM.

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#63 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:51 PM

If the bottom 6 next season looks like this:

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Prust-Abdelkader-Eaves

I'll be a happy man, and for s***s and giggles lets get Colton Orr as a 13th forward :hehe:

I don't feel like arguing about this subject much, because holy hell have we been down this road before. But it's quite clear that the Wings bottom 6 needs a bit of a revamping when the most physical forward consistently in the playoffs was Cleary on one frickin leg. After Helm went down we didn't have a forecheck or a physical presence, that's no good. Of course we need some more goals, and Parise is exactly the type of guy we need, but there are more areas that need to be fixed on the Wings.


As much as I'm usually against having these guys on the team, I can't deny that a huge part of me wished we had Colton Orr about the time Weber was head slamming. Could you imagine if Orr was out for the first shift of the following game? Priceless.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#64 Majsheppard

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:40 PM

Remind me how much Eric Boulton is helping the Devils in the finals or how much Kyle Clifford has made the Kings win the cup. Goons are for teams that can't fill the stands unless they can play.

I'd take Clarkson for sure from the Devils, but its more because he is a net crasher... all of the things in the world we need, the last is toughness the way this list defines it.

I just don't see the point. When you don't have much money, and the cash needs to go to better players.

I will take an enforcer, if we have all the issues with the team solved. We don't.
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This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#65 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:11 PM

Remind me how much Eric Boulton is helping the Devils in the finals or how much Kyle Clifford has made the Kings win the cup. Goons are for teams that can't fill the stands unless they can play.

I'd take Clarkson for sure from the Devils, but its more because he is a net crasher... all of the things in the world we need, the last is toughness the way this list defines it.

I just don't see the point. When you don't have much money, and the cash needs to go to better players.

I will take an enforcer, if we have all the issues with the team solved. We don't.


I completely agree, and that's the most reasonable way to look at the enforcer idea in today's game.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#66 Shaman

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:21 PM

If by tougher to play against you mean 'harder to knock off the puck/better at knocking the other team off the puck' I agree. If you mean 'fight, make big hits, take retaliatory penalties' I disagree.
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#67 55fan

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:32 PM

Step 1) Sign/trade for Bobby Ryan and Colton Orr
Step 2) Do a Vulcan Mind Meld
Step 3) Put Colton Ryan in as a goal-scoring forward to do our fighting.
Step 4) Get Bobby Orr out there to play defense.

Ok, now that I've got the silliness out of my head, I would not mind having Colton Orr on the team.

The enforcer debate has been done to death, and I've given my nickel's worth time and again, but one thing the team seemed to be lacking, especially during the playoffs, was joy.

I know that sounds silly, but they all looked like they were going through the motions- like they were just doing what they were doing but had no purpose.

One thing we always hear about with guys like Downey (for example- not saying "bring him back") is how they lift the spirits of the other guys. They kind of act as an internal cheerleader. They build them up when they need the confidence.

Enforcers are commonly the "funny guy" in the locker room. No, not that way. Get your minds out of the gutter. I mean they're the guy that cracks the jokes and lightens the mood. They get the team up before the big games, and then go to their place in the press box. Or they play and do their duty.

Sure, we need a defenseman. We need a top six guy. We know who most of us want for those spots. July 1st only comes once a year. I'm sure Kenny will be focused on those two, plus any backup plans should those guys get snapped up quickly.

But we also need a guy who can bring the joy of playing hockey back to the locker room. And that, my friends, could very likely be an enforcer.

Go for it, Kenny!

#68 Johnz96

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:37 PM

From my time here at LGW is should be pretty obvious that I'm against having fighters on this team. As long as we win, I don't care about seeing scraps. However, there's something to be said for this. Remember back in 2004 before the Pistons went on their 3 years of dominance and they brought Rasheed in? I recall Dumars, or Larry Brown, can't remember who, saying that Rasheed wasn't really the best at anything. But he had the right attitude. Maybe Suh is another good example of attitude.

I love our hockey team, and won't stop no matter what they do in the off season. But worse things would happen than bringing in some mean bastard with an attitude. Might be the kind of spark plug that any team needs in order to stay motivated during the grind.

...but if we do chase a fighter, obviously he'll need to be the 13th forward.


Not if it's someone like Kane, Iginla or Weber

#69 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:50 PM

Not if it's someone like Kane, Iginla or Weber


Yeah, I was speaking more about pure enforcers.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#70 pucktividi

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:15 PM

Nothing against enforcer(s),but don't want to see us becoming Bruins/Kings like team.
Yes they won it by chasing,dumping,trapping and fore-checking,but the key is still Conn Smythe winning goaltenders.

Call me crazy,but I still want Red Wings like team that moves the puck soo damn quick that fore-checking f*ckers come 1 second too late,lol

#71 Dabura

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:26 PM

Prust + Bitz?

Don't Toews me, bro!


#72 GMRwings1983

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:35 PM

Nothing against enforcer(s),but don't want to see us becoming Bruins/Kings like team.
Yes they won it by chasing,dumping,trapping and fore-checking,but the key is still Conn Smythe winning goaltenders.

Call me crazy,but I still want Red Wings like team that moves the puck soo damn quick that fore-checking f*ckers come 1 second too late,lol


And Howard has not been able to outplay the other guy (not counting Bryzgalov) in order for us to advance far.

Since we're not obtaining a Conn Smythe goalie this offseason, we may as well demand something realistic.

Step 1) Sign/trade for Bobby Ryan and Colton Orr
Step 2) Do a Vulcan Mind Meld
Step 3) Put Colton Ryan in as a goal-scoring forward to do our fighting.
Step 4) Get Bobby Orr out there to play defense.

Ok, now that I've got the silliness out of my head, I would not mind having Colton Orr on the team.

The enforcer debate has been done to death, and I've given my nickel's worth time and again, but one thing the team seemed to be lacking, especially during the playoffs, was joy.

I know that sounds silly, but they all looked like they were going through the motions- like they were just doing what they were doing but had no purpose.

One thing we always hear about with guys like Downey (for example- not saying "bring him back") is how they lift the spirits of the other guys. They kind of act as an internal cheerleader. They build them up when they need the confidence.

Enforcers are commonly the "funny guy" in the locker room. No, not that way. Get your minds out of the gutter. I mean they're the guy that cracks the jokes and lightens the mood. They get the team up before the big games, and then go to their place in the press box. Or they play and do their duty.

Sure, we need a defenseman. We need a top six guy. We know who most of us want for those spots. July 1st only comes once a year. I'm sure Kenny will be focused on those two, plus any backup plans should those guys get snapped up quickly.

But we also need a guy who can bring the joy of playing hockey back to the locker room. And that, my friends, could very likely be an enforcer.

Go for it, Kenny!


Admit it.

Chicks dig enforcers and hockey fights.
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#73 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:01 PM

Remind me how much Eric Boulton is helping the Devils in the finals or how much Kyle Clifford has made the Kings win the cup. Goons are for teams that can't fill the stands unless they can play.

I'd take Clarkson for sure from the Devils, but its more because he is a net crasher... all of the things in the world we need, the last is toughness the way this list defines it.

I just don't see the point. When you don't have much money, and the cash needs to go to better players.

I will take an enforcer, if we have all the issues with the team solved. We don't.

:lol:

If teams employ enforcers simply to get the fans in the seats, how come teams like Chicago, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, NYR, and Montreal dressed enforcers this past year? None of these teams have problems with attendance, and would have drew just as well without enforcers. Therefore your theory dies.

Also, I love how you completely ignored every other play I mentioned on LA besides Clifford. What about King, Nolan, Fraser, Greene, and Mitchell? They're not worth mentioning, right?
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#74 55fan

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:12 PM

Hot Chicks dig enforcers and hockey fights.

Fixed it for ya. ;)

#75 pucktividi

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:19 PM

And Howard has not been able to outplay the other guy (not counting Bryzgalov) in order for us to advance far.

Since we're not obtaining a Conn Smythe goalie this offseason, we may as well demand something realistic.


Spend Mr.I's cash on 2 top and 2 role players that "fit" our system is more realistic than go hard core,leave the system we've been playing for 20 years and change the half of a roster just to be like the recent cup winning teams in one off-season.

#76 LeftWinger

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:23 PM

:lol:

If teams employ enforcers simply to get the fans in the seats, how come teams like Chicago, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, NYR, and Montreal dressed enforcers this past year? None of these teams have problems with attendance, and would have drew just as well without enforcers. Therefore your theory dies.

Also, I love how you completely ignored every other play I mentioned on LA besides Clifford. What about King, Nolan, Fraser, Greene, and Mitchell? They're not worth mentioning, right?

I would love Mitchell on our D, I was asking for him last time he was UFA...although, if the Kings wrap it up, I have a feeling they will be keeping (if they can) as many players as they can to try to get back again in 2013...

Spend Mr.I's cash on 2 top and 2 role players that "fit" our system is more realistic than go hard core,leave the system we've been playing for 20 years and change the half of a roster just to be like the recent cup winning teams in one off-season.

Yes...I would even say 1 scorer and role player and 2 D...solid backup. No need for a purchased Stanley Cup, then lose everyone in the off season (ahem...cough cough Chicago, cough cough) but 3-4 additions/changes that make it tougher to play against us and that scorer to play with Datsyuk...whether is be Parise or not, but someone who can put in upwards of 45 goals...

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#77 pucktividi

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

I would love Mitchell on our D, I was asking for him last time he was UFA...although, if the Kings wrap it up, I have a feeling they will be keeping (if they can) as many players as they can to try to get back again in 2013...


People neg'd me when I suggested Stuart for Mitchell trade at the deadline(when it became obvious Stuie won't resign here).

The Wings will be tougher to play against with Mitchell instead of Quincey for sure :hehe:

#78 dirtydangles

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:41 PM

Step 1) Sign/trade for Bobby Ryan and Colton Orr
Step 2) Do a Vulcan Mind Meld
Step 3) Put Colton Ryan in as a goal-scoring forward to do our fighting.
Step 4) Get Bobby Orr out there to play defense.


That mixed colton ryan is named corey perry or milan lucic.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#79 GMRwings1983

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:42 AM

Spend Mr.I's cash on 2 top and 2 role players that "fit" our system is more realistic than go hard core,leave the system we've been playing for 20 years and change the half of a roster just to be like the recent cup winning teams in one off-season.


One enforcer and a guy like Prust won't change our style of hockey.

If you go back as far as the late 90's in your definition of "our system", then you have to admit we had an even tougher lineup than what an enforcer and Prust would provide.
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#80 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 12:41 PM

Remind me how much Eric Boulton is helping the Devils in the finals or how much Kyle Clifford has made the Kings win the cup. Goons are for teams that can't fill the stands unless they can play.

I'd take Clarkson for sure from the Devils, but its more because he is a net crasher... all of the things in the world we need, the last is toughness the way this list defines it.

I just don't see the point. When you don't have much money, and the cash needs to go to better players.

I will take an enforcer, if we have all the issues with the team solved. We don't.

Clifford missed much of the playoffs after getting hit from behind in game 1 against Vancouver and got another concussion. And though he will fight, I wouldn't call him a goon or enforcer really.

He's not sent out there just to go with someone. He's a crasher and banger and can score the occasional goal. Honestly fighting may be his downfall. The kid has already been concussed several times in his young career. And he fights wide open, throwing haymakers but leaving himself vulnerable to being caught with one too.

He's 21 years old with two seasons under his belt. Right now he's just not that solid defensively on an extremely sound defensive team. That more than anything is why he's not in the lineup right now. But assuming he doesn't get his brains scrambled from a hit or fight, he could develop into a good third and fourth line guy.

The thing is, the Kings have a very good third and fourth line. And while size isn't everything, I think Detroit is relatively undersized so it would be nice to add some of it to the lineup. And more than that, they need the bottom couple lines to have a purpose and identity out there. This season it was often just a patchwork of leftover players who don't fit together very well.





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