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Building a new Wings team (the realists thread)


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#1 WingNut 25

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:11 PM

Saw this article over on the Production Line site and it really is good food for thought.

http://theproduction...he-new-dynasty/

Seeing too much of the NHL video game GM junk in a lot of threads, so I'm making this one for much more realistic talk and scenarios. Here are some of the UFA's on July 1 (assuming they do not resign with their current teams). The UFA class is very underwhelming so realistically the Wings may need to work the trade route to make an impact.

To me, the "all in" UFA's, if they are there on July 1, are Parise and Suter. Holland needs to push and push hard to acquire at least 1 of them and the reasons are obvious. They fill tremendous needs for this Wings team. Their value is in many ways immeasurable to a team trying to get back to elite status.

Our defense will be interesting should Suter sign elsewhere or stay in NashVegas. IMO, Lidstrom will retire. I hope deep down he'll be drawn back by the allure of the Winter Classic in The Big House. But the realist in me says he doesn't want to become Chris Chelios and stay too long. I think he walks away with the kind of sad end that Yzerman had (a disappointing playoff defeat). Stuart is gone. Sad to say but there's a reason his family has never moved and the obvious speculation is that his wife cannot move their daughter due to custody issues. My personal guess is Stuart signs with the Ducks as they need him more than the Sharks or Kings do and CA is his desired destination. Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith and Kindl make for a nice group of defenseman but more is needed. I have my doubts on whether or not Quincey will be back but it cost the Wings a #1 to get him so the likelihood they let him go is very small, the likelihood they sign and trade him is quite realistic.

Back to Zach. He is the perfect fit for this Wings team, a sniper that could easily get Datsyuk back up to the sort of point range we expect from him and who gives the Wings that 40 goal scorer they are sorely missing. Now while I've seen it suggested that Franzen and/or Filppula could be moved, I don't see it happening unless an impact scorer is coming back in return. While Mule is extremely streaky, he still pots nearly 30 goals a year for a cap hit of less than $4 million/year. Look at the list below and find me guys who are likely to sign with the Wings who can match that production. Again, a Franzen-type scorer would have to be acquired in trade for the Mule himself. I think Fil and Z have something special and I think we've finally seen the real Fil. I'd hate to see him moved for anything less than someone like a Rick Nash. The problem there is simply that the likelihood of Columbus trading their captain to a hated division rival is slim and none, and slim is packing up to head out of town. So unless the sort of deals like a Richards to LA that caught everyone off guard last year emerge for the Wings to get involved in, the Wings will likely have to rebuild via free agency and look for less earth-shattering moves. Here is the list of UFA's below. As you can see, Suter and Parise are the gems and the rest, well see for yourself.

Centers


Daymond Langkow $4,500,000
Jarret Stoll $3,600,000
Jochen Hecht $3,525,000
Olli Jokinen $3,000,000
Jiri Hudler $2,875,000
Jason Arnott $2,800,000
Samuel Pahlsson $2,650,000
Saku Koivu $2,500,000
Paul Gaustad $2,300,000
Chris Kelly $2,125,000
Steven Reinprecht $2,050,000
Jay McClement $1,450,000
Torrey Mitchell $1,366,667
Brendan Morrison $1,250,000
Kyle Brodziak $1,150,000
Gregory Campbell $1,100,000
Dominic Moore $1,100,000
Jim Slater $1,000,000
Daniel Winnik $950,000
Erik Christensen $925,000
Lennart Petrell $900,000
Alexandre Giroux $825,000
Colin Fraser $825,000
Jeff Halpern $825,000
Jake Dowell $800,000
Brandon Prust $800,000
Toby Petersen $775,000
Ryan Carter $750,000
Jesse Winchester $750,000
Tim Wallace $700,000
Zenon Konopka $700,000
Blair Betts $700,000
Scott Nichol $700,000

Left Wings

Alexander Semin $6,700,000
Ryan Smyth $6,250,000
Zach Parise $6,000,000
Kristian Huselius $4,750,000
Dustin Penner $4,250,000
Jason Blake $4,000,000
Andrei Kostitsyn $3,250,000
Niklas Hagman $3,000,000
Ray Whitney $3,000,000
Marco Sturm $2,250,000
Andrew Brunette $2,000,000
Sean Avery $1,938,000
Tomas Holmstrom $1,875,000
Alexei Ponikarovsky $1,500,000
Travis Moen $1,500,000
Steve Sullivan $1,500,000
Jay Pandolfo $1,400,000
Ruslan Fedotenko $1,400,000
Daniel Paille $1,075,000
Cody McLeod $1,033,000
Taylor Pyatt $1,000,000
Darcy Hordichuk $825,000
Shawn Thornton $812,000
Tanner Glass $750,000
Brandon Yip $725,000
Brad Wincester $725,000
Trevor Gillies $625,000
Raitis Ivanans $600,000
Fabian Brunnstrom $600,000


Right Wings


Brian Rolston $5,062,000
Shane Doan $4,550,000
Ales Hemsky $4,100,000
Teemu Selanne $4,000,000
Brad Boyes $4,000,000
Jaromir Jagr $3,300,000
Ales Kotalik $3,000,000
Jamie Langenbrunner $2,800,000
Milan Hejduk $2,600,000
David Jones $2,500,000
Mikael Samuelsson $2,500,000
Mike Knuble $2,000,000
Lee Stempniak $1,900,000
Radek Dvorak $1,500,000
JP Dumont $1,333,000
David Moss $1,300,000
Jordin Tootoo $1,250,000
P.A. Parenteau $1,250,000
Ian Laperriere $1,167,000
Adam Burish $1,150,000
Tom Kostopoulos $917,000
George Parros $875,000
Krystopher Barch $838,000
Arron Asham $775,000
Joey Crabb $750,000
Byron Bitz $700,000
Petr Sykora $650,000
Mark Parrish $650,000
Ryan Shannon $625,000
Joakim Lindstrom $600,000
Trent Hunter $600,000
Brian Willsie $600,000
Brian McGrattan $600,000
Jonathan Cheechoo $600,000
Adam Hall $600,000
Brad Staubitz $575,000
Jamal Mayers $550,000
Brett McLean $525,000
Cam Janssen $525,000


Defensemen


Nicklas Lidstrom $6,200,000
Michal Rozsival $5,000,000
Dennis Wideman $3,875,000
Pavel Kubina $3,850,000
Jaroslav Spacek $3,833,000
Brad Stuart $3,750,000
Filip Kuba $3,700,000
Barret Jackman $3,625,000
Cory Sarich $3,600,000
Willie Mitchell $3,500,000
Ryan Suter $3,500,000
Jeff Finger $3,500,000
John Oduya $3,500,000
Matt Carle $3,438,000
Bryan Allen $2,900,000
Bryce Salvador $2,900,000
Mark Eaton $2,500,000
Joe Corvo $2,250,000
Hal Gill $2,250,000
Radek Martinek $2,200,000
Carlo Colaiacovo $2,125,000
Shaone Morrisonn $2,075,000
Adrian Aucoin $2,000,000
Sami Salo $2,000,000
Greg Zanon $1,933,333
Kurtis Foster $1,800,000
Chris Campoli $1,750,000
Kurt Sauer $1,750,000
Sheldon Souray $1,650,000
Nicklas Grossman $1,625,000
Milan Jurcina $1,600,000
Steve Staios $1,600,000
Matt Hunwick $1,550,000
Brett Clark $1,500,000
Francis Bouillon $1,350,000
Randy Jones $1,150,000
Shane O’Brien $1,100,000
Scott Hannan $1,000,000
Brad Lukowich $1,000,000
Mike Lundin $1,000,000
Colin White $1,000,000
Matt Carkner $700,000
Jason Garrison $675,000
Clayton Stoner $550,000
John Scott $512,000


Goalies


Cristobal Huet $5,625,000
Martin Brodeur $5,200,000
Dwayne Roloson $3,000,000
Antero Niittymaki $2,000,000
Chris Mason $1,850,000
Michael Leighton $1,550,000
Dan Ellis $1,500,000
Tomas Vokoun $1,500,000
Jonas Gustavsson $1,350,000
Johan Hedberg $1,250,000
Scott Clemmensen $1,200,000
Alex Auld $1,000,000
Martin Biron $875,000
Johan Backlund $800,000
Ty Conklin $750,000
Josh Harding $750,000
Andrew Raycroft $650,000
Al Montoya $601,000
Curtis Sanford $600,000
Brent Johnson $600,000

Some of my personal suggestions, aside from Parise and Suter, that the Wings should target for various needs are:

Forwards - Brandon Prust, Paul Gaustad, Jason Arnott, Jiri Hudler, Brad Winchester, Milan Hejduk, George Parros, Jamal Mayers, David Jones, Mike Knuble
D-men - Hal Gill, Matt Carle, Barret Jackman, Colin White, Dennis Wideman
Goalie - Martin Biron, Josh Harding, Johan Hedberg

#2 Echolalia

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:40 AM

I think the trade route is the more viable option, especially this year with a lot of promising, high-expectations teams bowing out in the first round after three years of being labelled as not performing to expectations. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, San Jose, Detroit, and perhaps Boston or Washington will all be looking to shake up the roster.
Chicago needs goaltending and defense, has offensive surplus.
Pens need defense, wingers, and with Crosby and Malkin, I see Staal being the prime trade piece.
San Jose needs a new identity. I don't think anyone on that roster is safe from being moved, which will make for an interesting offseason.
Vancouver I'm not sure how to grade. They have all the pieces to go far, but ran into a bit of bad luck going against Quick in round one and without Sedin. But still, they were manhandled in the first round, and the Vancouver fan base is unforgiving. I'm curious to see how the GM will respond.

There's only one of Parise and Suter, and 30 teams who will be inquiring come free agency. The odds of the Wings landing even one of those two is slim. I'm not saying we shouldn't push hard for these guys, but I think the gold this year will be found in trades.

#3 BUHdactyl

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

P.A. Parenteau

#4 WingNut 25

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

You have to think Luongo gets traded. Frees up a lot of cap space, unless of course they take a bad contract in return (Lecavalier perhaps).

You're absolutely right; there's going to be a ton of movement as the "elite" clubs fell well below expectation and will look to shake things up. I personally think the Sharks will be blown up.

#5 mmamolo

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

Some of my personal suggestions, aside from Parise and Suter, that the Wings should target for various needs are:

Forwards - Brandon Prust, Paul Gaustad, Jason Arnott, Jiri Hudler, Brad Winchester, Milan Hejduk, George Parros, Jamal Mayers, David Jones, Mike Knuble
D-men - Hal Gill, Matt Carle, Barret Jackman, Colin White, Dennis Wideman
Goalie - Martin Biron, Josh Harding, Johan Hedberg


Of the secondary UFAs the ones I bolded would be the ones of your list I'd want the most. I think Jones is a realistic target that the Wings could definitely use. On the blue line if Lidstrom returns and you're only looking to replace Stuart then someone like Jackman could be good because you wouldnt need to replace as much offense. But if Lidstrom goes I think you need to look at a guy who can produce points and to me Carle and Wideman are good options.

I wanted Harding in Detroit badly last summer. At least at the time he was coming off an injury (which I realize would have scared the Wings off anyways) where as this year he is going to want to go somewhere to be the #1 - unfortunately that place won't be DET. I think a Howard/Harding tandem would be unreal. Both guys on the younger side of 30, pushing each other to improve, and capable of winning games on their own when they are on top of their game.
Posted Imagewww.unsportsmanlike.ca

#6 Bannedforlife

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:53 AM

I wonder if Chicago would be willing to trade Hossa for Franzen?

#7 WingNut 25

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:11 PM

Would we want Hossa at this point if he ends up with concussion issues?

#8 Autika

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:20 PM

Would we want Hossa at this point if he ends up with concussion issues?


I wish there was some one dedicated enough to go back and see if we have historically complained more about Mule or Hossa. I think it's a pretty even split.

#9 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

P A Parenteau will more than likely file for arbitration, after the season he just had I bet he will be looking for a lot more than 1.25 mil. I'd love to have him but it wouldn't be at 1.25 it would probably be closer to 3.5-4.5 mil.

He is very similar to Plekanec in Montreal, 20G 50A potential per season, and he's making 5 mil. If that's the case i'm not sure we invest that kind of money into another assist guy.

13585921555_24551f5658.jpg


#10 Carman

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

He is very similar to Plekanec in Montreal, 20G 50A potential per season, and he's making 5 mil. If that's the case i'm not sure we invest that kind of money into another assist guy.


Plekanec is a brilliant two way center, the offensive numbers might be similar but they are vastly different in every other area. Parentuea won't be paid that much, plus I wonder how much of his production is because of Tavares.

He's a good player but I don't think he would be a good match for the Wing's, we need scorers not playmakers.

#11 WingNut 25

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:13 PM

Agreed that they need scorers. Unfortunately the market is slim there. You also can't sit around hoping for a bunch I talent to come up UFA next summer. The new trend is to lock up guys before UFA status, not gamble they will come back. We did it with Pavel before it was popular to do so.

#12 Dabura

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:47 PM

On the top-6 front - if we don't get Parise, we're in trouble. Because, well, how the hell do we get an elite goal-scorer AND a legitimate power forward via trading? Unless there are some real UFA gems I'm overlooking...?

Don't Toews me, bro!


#13 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:18 PM

On the top-6 front - if we don't get Parise, we're in trouble. Because, well, how the hell do we get an elite goal-scorer AND a legitimate power forward via trading? Unless there are some real UFA gems I'm overlooking...?


You just need depth at decent value.

Here's my serious attempt without adding Parise.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / David Jones ($3.500m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Darren Helm ($1.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,017,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $3,282,955

Of course, I'm banking on Cleary having a full recovery and Nyquist performing well, but there you have scoring depth. I think they just need another center and a winger like Jones to fulfill that without spending a lot on one person.

Edited by dropkickshanahans, 24 April 2012 - 07:18 PM.


#14 Dabura

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:22 PM

We need more than scoring depth. We need a couple big guns. (This being the realist thread and all....)

Don't Toews me, bro!


#15 dirtydangles

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

You just need depth at decent value.

Here's my serious attempt without adding Parise.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / David Jones ($3.500m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Darren Helm ($1.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,017,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $3,282,955

Of course, I'm banking on Cleary having a full recovery and Nyquist performing well, but there you have scoring depth. I think they just need another center and a winger like Jones to fulfill that without spending a lot on one person.


Yeah thats pretty solid in my mind. My bet is we will see something like this going into next season, I just don't think we will land Parise or Suter (Holland has lost his clutchness). Would be nice to have Prust in the fold for the bottom six and maybe see cleary go but thats just me.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#16 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:26 PM

We need more than scoring depth. We need a couple big guns. (This being the realist thread and all....)


Realistically, that's a tall order.

#17 Dabura

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

Realistically, it's what we need. :P

Don't Toews me, bro!


#18 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:31 PM

Yeah thats pretty solid in my mind. My bet is we will see something like this going into next season, I just don't think we will land Parise or Suter (Holland has lost his clutchness). Would be nice to have Prust in the fold for the bottom six and maybe see cleary go but thats just me.


Yeah I thought about adding Prust or Moen, but idk. After seeing how Cleary played in the playoffs, and if he's fully recovered going into next season, I like that third line a lot. Plus I want to see any improvement from Mursak, and it's hard for me to let go of Miller who can put up a good amount of points on a bottom line.

But if it's still the same mess, yeah I wouldn't mind Eaves being on that third line and rolling Prust - Helm - Abdelkader on the 4th.

Edited by dropkickshanahans, 24 April 2012 - 07:32 PM.


#19 WingNut 25

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

That's not a bad approach but one thing to keep in mind: do you want to nearly max out your cap space with those players? I prefer to see them save some of that for 2013 if they don't land Parise.

#20 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:34 PM

That's not a bad approach but one thing to keep in mind: do you want to nearly max out your cap space with those players? I prefer to see them save some of that for 2013 if they don't land Parise.


I like the looks of that team, especially with over $3 mil in cap space still available.





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