Building a new Wings team (the realists thread)

[WingNut 25 5]

Saw this article over on the Production Line site and it really is good food for thought.

http://theproductionline.us/building-the-new-dynasty/

Seeing too much of the NHL video game GM junk in a lot of threads, so I'm making this one for much more realistic talk and scenarios. Here are some of the UFA's on July 1 (assuming they do not resign with their current teams). The UFA class is very underwhelming so realistically the Wings may need to work the trade route to make an impact.

To me, the "all in" UFA's, if they are there on July 1, are Parise and Suter. Holland needs to push and push hard to acquire at least 1 of them and the reasons are obvious. They fill tremendous needs for this Wings team. Their value is in many ways immeasurable to a team trying to get back to elite status.

Our defense will be interesting should Suter sign elsewhere or stay in NashVegas. IMO, Lidstrom will retire. I hope deep down he'll be drawn back by the allure of the Winter Classic in The Big House. But the realist in me says he doesn't want to become Chris Chelios and stay too long. I think he walks away with the kind of sad end that Yzerman had (a disappointing playoff defeat). Stuart is gone. Sad to say but there's a reason his family has never moved and the obvious speculation is that his wife cannot move their daughter due to custody issues. My personal guess is Stuart signs with the Ducks as they need him more than the Sharks or Kings do and CA is his desired destination. Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith and Kindl make for a nice group of defenseman but more is needed. I have my doubts on whether or not Quincey will be back but it cost the Wings a #1 to get him so the likelihood they let him go is very small, the likelihood they sign and trade him is quite realistic.

Back to Zach. He is the perfect fit for this Wings team, a sniper that could easily get Datsyuk back up to the sort of point range we expect from him and who gives the Wings that 40 goal scorer they are sorely missing. Now while I've seen it suggested that Franzen and/or Filppula could be moved, I don't see it happening unless an impact scorer is coming back in return. While Mule is extremely streaky, he still pots nearly 30 goals a year for a cap hit of less than $4 million/year. Look at the list below and find me guys who are likely to sign with the Wings who can match that production. Again, a Franzen-type scorer would have to be acquired in trade for the Mule himself. I think Fil and Z have something special and I think we've finally seen the real Fil. I'd hate to see him moved for anything less than someone like a Rick Nash. The problem there is simply that the likelihood of Columbus trading their captain to a hated division rival is slim and none, and slim is packing up to head out of town. So unless the sort of deals like a Richards to LA that caught everyone off guard last year emerge for the Wings to get involved in, the Wings will likely have to rebuild via free agency and look for less earth-shattering moves. Here is the list of UFA's below. As you can see, Suter and Parise are the gems and the rest, well see for yourself.

Centers

Daymond Langkow $4,500,000

Jarret Stoll $3,600,000

Jochen Hecht $3,525,000

Olli Jokinen $3,000,000

Jiri Hudler $2,875,000

Jason Arnott $2,800,000

Samuel Pahlsson $2,650,000

Saku Koivu $2,500,000

Paul Gaustad $2,300,000

Chris Kelly $2,125,000

Steven Reinprecht $2,050,000

Jay McClement $1,450,000

Torrey Mitchell $1,366,667

Brendan Morrison $1,250,000

Kyle Brodziak $1,150,000

Gregory Campbell $1,100,000

Dominic Moore $1,100,000

Jim Slater $1,000,000

Daniel Winnik $950,000

Erik Christensen $925,000

Lennart Petrell $900,000

Alexandre Giroux $825,000

Colin Fraser $825,000

Jeff Halpern $825,000

Jake Dowell $800,000

Brandon Prust $800,000

Toby Petersen $775,000

Ryan Carter $750,000

Jesse Winchester $750,000

Tim Wallace $700,000

Zenon Konopka $700,000

Blair Betts $700,000

Scott Nichol $700,000

Left Wings

Alexander Semin $6,700,000

Ryan Smyth $6,250,000

Zach Parise $6,000,000

Kristian Huselius $4,750,000

Dustin Penner $4,250,000

Jason Blake $4,000,000

Andrei Kostitsyn $3,250,000

Niklas Hagman $3,000,000

Ray Whitney $3,000,000

Marco Sturm $2,250,000

Andrew Brunette $2,000,000

Sean Avery $1,938,000

Tomas Holmstrom $1,875,000

Alexei Ponikarovsky $1,500,000

Travis Moen $1,500,000

Steve Sullivan $1,500,000

Jay Pandolfo $1,400,000

Ruslan Fedotenko $1,400,000

Daniel Paille $1,075,000

Cody McLeod $1,033,000

Taylor Pyatt $1,000,000

Darcy Hordichuk $825,000

Shawn Thornton $812,000

Tanner Glass $750,000

Brandon Yip $725,000

Brad Wincester $725,000

Trevor Gillies $625,000

Raitis Ivanans $600,000

Fabian Brunnstrom $600,000

Right Wings

Brian Rolston $5,062,000

Shane Doan $4,550,000

Ales Hemsky $4,100,000

Teemu Selanne $4,000,000

Brad Boyes $4,000,000

Jaromir Jagr $3,300,000

Ales Kotalik $3,000,000

Jamie Langenbrunner $2,800,000

Milan Hejduk $2,600,000

David Jones $2,500,000

Mikael Samuelsson $2,500,000

Mike Knuble $2,000,000

Lee Stempniak $1,900,000

Radek Dvorak $1,500,000

JP Dumont $1,333,000

David Moss $1,300,000

Jordin Tootoo $1,250,000

P.A. Parenteau $1,250,000

Ian Laperriere $1,167,000

Adam Burish $1,150,000

Tom Kostopoulos $917,000

George Parros $875,000

Krystopher Barch $838,000

Arron Asham $775,000

Joey Crabb $750,000

Byron Bitz $700,000

Petr Sykora $650,000

Mark Parrish $650,000

Ryan Shannon $625,000

Joakim Lindstrom $600,000

Trent Hunter $600,000

Brian Willsie $600,000

Brian McGrattan $600,000

Jonathan Cheechoo $600,000

Adam Hall $600,000

Brad Staubitz $575,000

Jamal Mayers $550,000

Brett McLean $525,000

Cam Janssen $525,000

Defensemen

Nicklas Lidstrom $6,200,000

Michal Rozsival $5,000,000

Dennis Wideman $3,875,000

Pavel Kubina $3,850,000

Jaroslav Spacek $3,833,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Filip Kuba $3,700,000

Barret Jackman $3,625,000

Cory Sarich $3,600,000

Willie Mitchell $3,500,000

Ryan Suter $3,500,000

Jeff Finger $3,500,000

John Oduya $3,500,000

Matt Carle $3,438,000

Bryan Allen $2,900,000

Bryce Salvador $2,900,000

Mark Eaton $2,500,000

Joe Corvo $2,250,000

Hal Gill $2,250,000

Radek Martinek $2,200,000

Carlo Colaiacovo $2,125,000

Shaone Morrisonn $2,075,000

Adrian Aucoin $2,000,000

Sami Salo $2,000,000

Greg Zanon $1,933,333

Kurtis Foster $1,800,000

Chris Campoli $1,750,000

Kurt Sauer $1,750,000

Sheldon Souray $1,650,000

Nicklas Grossman $1,625,000

Milan Jurcina $1,600,000

Steve Staios $1,600,000

Matt Hunwick $1,550,000

Brett Clark $1,500,000

Francis Bouillon $1,350,000

Randy Jones $1,150,000

Shane O’Brien $1,100,000

Scott Hannan $1,000,000

Brad Lukowich $1,000,000

Mike Lundin $1,000,000

Colin White $1,000,000

Matt Carkner $700,000

Jason Garrison $675,000

Clayton Stoner $550,000

John Scott $512,000

Goalies

Cristobal Huet $5,625,000

Martin Brodeur $5,200,000

Dwayne Roloson $3,000,000

Antero Niittymaki $2,000,000

Chris Mason $1,850,000

Michael Leighton $1,550,000

Dan Ellis $1,500,000

Tomas Vokoun $1,500,000

Jonas Gustavsson $1,350,000

Johan Hedberg $1,250,000

Scott Clemmensen $1,200,000

Alex Auld $1,000,000

Martin Biron $875,000

Johan Backlund $800,000

Ty Conklin $750,000

Josh Harding $750,000

Andrew Raycroft $650,000

Al Montoya $601,000

Curtis Sanford $600,000

Brent Johnson $600,000

Some of my personal suggestions, aside from Parise and Suter, that the Wings should target for various needs are:

Forwards - Brandon Prust, Paul Gaustad, Jason Arnott, Jiri Hudler, Brad Winchester, Milan Hejduk, George Parros, Jamal Mayers, David Jones, Mike Knuble

D-men - Hal Gill, Matt Carle, Barret Jackman, Colin White, Dennis Wideman

Goalie - Martin Biron, Josh Harding, Johan Hedberg

[Echolalia 2,961]

I think the trade route is the more viable option, especially this year with a lot of promising, high-expectations teams bowing out in the first round after three years of being labelled as not performing to expectations. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, San Jose, Detroit, and perhaps Boston or Washington will all be looking to shake up the roster.

Chicago needs goaltending and defense, has offensive surplus.

Pens need defense, wingers, and with Crosby and Malkin, I see Staal being the prime trade piece.

San Jose needs a new identity. I don't think anyone on that roster is safe from being moved, which will make for an interesting offseason.

Vancouver I'm not sure how to grade. They have all the pieces to go far, but ran into a bit of bad luck going against Quick in round one and without Sedin. But still, they were manhandled in the first round, and the Vancouver fan base is unforgiving. I'm curious to see how the GM will respond.

There's only one of Parise and Suter, and 30 teams who will be inquiring come free agency. The odds of the Wings landing even one of those two is slim. I'm not saying we shouldn't push hard for these guys, but I think the gold this year will be found in trades.

[BUHdactyl 23]

P.A. Parenteau

[WingNut 25 5]

You have to think Luongo gets traded. Frees up a lot of cap space, unless of course they take a bad contract in return (Lecavalier perhaps).

You're absolutely right; there's going to be a ton of movement as the "elite" clubs fell well below expectation and will look to shake things up. I personally think the Sharks will be blown up.

[mmamolo 287]

Some of my personal suggestions, aside from Parise and Suter, that the Wings should target for various needs are:

Forwards - Brandon Prust, Paul Gaustad, Jason Arnott, Jiri Hudler, Brad Winchester, Milan Hejduk, George Parros, Jamal Mayers, David Jones, Mike Knuble

D-men - Hal Gill, Matt Carle, Barret Jackman, Colin White, Dennis Wideman

Goalie - Martin Biron, Josh Harding, Johan Hedberg

Of the secondary UFAs the ones I bolded would be the ones of your list I'd want the most. I think Jones is a realistic target that the Wings could definitely use. On the blue line if Lidstrom returns and you're only looking to replace Stuart then someone like Jackman could be good because you wouldnt need to replace as much offense. But if Lidstrom goes I think you need to look at a guy who can produce points and to me Carle and Wideman are good options.

I wanted Harding in Detroit badly last summer. At least at the time he was coming off an injury (which I realize would have scared the Wings off anyways) where as this year he is going to want to go somewhere to be the #1 - unfortunately that place won't be DET. I think a Howard/Harding tandem would be unreal. Both guys on the younger side of 30, pushing each other to improve, and capable of winning games on their own when they are on top of their game.

[Bannedforlife 403]

I wonder if Chicago would be willing to trade Hossa for Franzen?

[WingNut 25 5]

Would we want Hossa at this point if he ends up with concussion issues?

[Autika 34]

Would we want Hossa at this point if he ends up with concussion issues?

I wish there was some one dedicated enough to go back and see if we have historically complained more about Mule or Hossa. I think it's a pretty even split.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

P A Parenteau will more than likely file for arbitration, after the season he just had I bet he will be looking for a lot more than 1.25 mil. I'd love to have him but it wouldn't be at 1.25 it would probably be closer to 3.5-4.5 mil.

He is very similar to Plekanec in Montreal, 20G 50A potential per season, and he's making 5 mil. If that's the case i'm not sure we invest that kind of money into another assist guy.

[Carman 387]

He is very similar to Plekanec in Montreal, 20G 50A potential per season, and he's making 5 mil. If that's the case i'm not sure we invest that kind of money into another assist guy.

Plekanec is a brilliant two way center, the offensive numbers might be similar but they are vastly different in every other area. Parentuea won't be paid that much, plus I wonder how much of his production is because of Tavares.

He's a good player but I don't think he would be a good match for the Wing's, we need scorers not playmakers.

[WingNut 25 5]

Agreed that they need scorers. Unfortunately the market is slim there. You also can't sit around hoping for a bunch I talent to come up UFA next summer. The new trend is to lock up guys before UFA status, not gamble they will come back. We did it with Pavel before it was popular to do so.

[Dabura 12,207]

On the top-6 front - if we don't get Parise, we're in trouble. Because, well, how the hell do we get an elite goal-scorer AND a legitimate power forward via trading? Unless there are some real UFA gems I'm overlooking...?

[dropkickshanahans 463]

On the top-6 front - if we don't get Parise, we're in trouble. Because, well, how the hell do we get an elite goal-scorer AND a legitimate power forward via trading? Unless there are some real UFA gems I'm overlooking...?

You just need depth at decent value.

Here's my serious attempt without adding Parise.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / David Jones ($3.500m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Darren Helm ($1.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,017,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $3,282,955

Of course, I'm banking on Cleary having a full recovery and Nyquist performing well, but there you have scoring depth. I think they just need another center and a winger like Jones to fulfill that without spending a lot on one person.

Edited April 25, 2012 by dropkickshanahans

[Dabura 12,207]

We need more than scoring depth. We need a couple big guns. (This being the realist thread and all....)

[dirtydangles 1,328]

You just need depth at decent value.

Here's my serious attempt without adding Parise.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / David Jones ($3.500m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Darren Helm ($1.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,017,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $3,282,955

Of course, I'm banking on Cleary having a full recovery and Nyquist performing well, but there you have scoring depth. I think they just need another center and a winger like Jones to fulfill that without spending a lot on one person.

Yeah thats pretty solid in my mind. My bet is we will see something like this going into next season, I just don't think we will land Parise or Suter (Holland has lost his clutchness). Would be nice to have Prust in the fold for the bottom six and maybe see cleary go but thats just me.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

We need more than scoring depth. We need a couple big guns. (This being the realist thread and all....)

Realistically, that's a tall order.

[Dabura 12,207]

Realistically, it's what we need.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

Yeah thats pretty solid in my mind. My bet is we will see something like this going into next season, I just don't think we will land Parise or Suter (Holland has lost his clutchness). Would be nice to have Prust in the fold for the bottom six and maybe see cleary go but thats just me.

Yeah I thought about adding Prust or Moen, but idk. After seeing how Cleary played in the playoffs, and if he's fully recovered going into next season, I like that third line a lot. Plus I want to see any improvement from Mursak, and it's hard for me to let go of Miller who can put up a good amount of points on a bottom line.

But if it's still the same mess, yeah I wouldn't mind Eaves being on that third line and rolling Prust - Helm - Abdelkader on the 4th.

Edited April 25, 2012 by dropkickshanahans

[WingNut 25 5]

That's not a bad approach but one thing to keep in mind: do you want to nearly max out your cap space with those players? I prefer to see them save some of that for 2013 if they don't land Parise.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

That's not a bad approach but one thing to keep in mind: do you want to nearly max out your cap space with those players? I prefer to see them save some of that for 2013 if they don't land Parise.

I like the looks of that team, especially with over $3 mil in cap space still available.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

You just need depth at decent value.

Here's my serious attempt without adding Parise.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / David Jones ($3.500m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Darren Helm ($1.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,017,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $3,282,955

Of course, I'm banking on Cleary having a full recovery and Nyquist performing well, but there you have scoring depth. I think they just need another center and a winger like Jones to fulfill that without spending a lot on one person.

What's so special about this team over the one we have now?

David Jones? Isn't he at the bottom of the ocean somewhere?

[dropkickshanahans 463]

What's so special about this team over the one we have now?

David Jones? Isn't he at the bottom of the ocean somewhere?

Just throwing it out there if they can't sign Parise. What's wrong with Jones? He's a big body that can net 20+ goals. Adding him and Kelly moves Bert and Helm down to give the team more depth.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Just throwing it out there if they can't sign Parise. What's wrong with Jones? He's a big body that can net 20+ goals. Adding him and Kelly moves Bert and Helm down to give the team more depth.

He's not really a top line player.

I'd like to have a big body on the other lines that can score, but it's not going to make us a better team if he's playing on the top line.

Certainly a big dropoff from a Parise or Perry.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

He's not really a top line player.

I'd like to have a big body on the other lines that can score, but it's not going to make us a better team if he's playing on the top line.

Certainly a big dropoff from a Parise or Perry.

I wouldn't know. I never watch the Avs play unless it's against the Wings so idk how good he is. I just think it'll be hard to get Parise, and Perry even more difficult, even though I'd be thrilled if the Wings got one of them.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Alexandre Giroux $825,000

Boom. 50% of the top scorer in the 2012 playoffs could be ours.