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#4 Nashville Predators vs. #3 Phoenix Coyotes


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#221 GoalieManPat

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 06:05 AM

Phoenix has already gotten as many pucks past Rinne as the Wings did and its all because they work there butts off every shift.

#222 xtrememachine1

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

Phoenix has already gotten as many pucks past Rinne as the Wings did and its all because they work there butts off every shift.


Yeah, that is pretty sickening. 9 goals for us in the entire series and the Coyotes match that with 9 goals in less than two games. Phoenix scored more goals in a little over 2 periods than we did in the last three games combined. Ridiculous. I know there's talk about us not being deep enough and Babcock even mentioned that and I do agree that our 3rd and 4th lines need to be better, but to see a team like Phoenix score 9 goals in 2 games when it took us, a team with many talented stars, 5 games to score that many, that's on the coach. Whether it be preparation or motivation, coaching was a contributing factor to our early exit.

#223 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

So far, Rinne's goaltending makes Nashville look like Pittsburgh South.
Where did they get all the "fans" in Glendale?

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#224 evilzyme

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:06 AM

Yeah, that is pretty sickening. 9 goals for us in the entire series and the Coyotes match that with 9 goals in less than two games. Phoenix scored more goals in a little over 2 periods than we did in the last three games combined. Ridiculous. I know there's talk about us not being deep enough and Babcock even mentioned that and I do agree that our 3rd and 4th lines need to be better, but to see a team like Phoenix score 9 goals in 2 games when it took us, a team with many talented stars, 5 games to score that many, that's on the coach. Whether it be preparation or motivation, coaching was a contributing factor to our early exit.


You can't coach something that isn't there. Face it, they weren't playing with their hearts near the end. Morale was down and confidence was lacking. Players were floating and some were already on their way out. Could it be that Babcock had given up hope for the season too? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. He just lacked having a team to coach near the end there. It could be the new side guys Bashill and Peters though.

So far, Rinne's goaltending makes Nashville look like Pittsburgh South.
Where did they get all the "fans" in Glendale?


They've always "had" the fans, it's just when they play the Red Wings they have to deal with our bat s*** crazy fans who will buy tickets faster than them. They have had campaigns in the past to keep the red out, I atleast remember the previous two post-seasons they've had them against us. With the threat of losing their team, their fans have shown up to show their support in hopes of keeping their team. I've just heard that it's a horrible location and people don't personally want to travel to that area to go see a game. I've never been there personally myself though.

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#225 wingslogo19

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:54 AM

So far, Rinne's goaltending makes Nashville look like Pittsburgh South.
Where did they get all the "fans" in Glendale?

There just seat fillers not "fans" :P
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#226 esteef

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:28 AM

Hearing people ripping the fanbases of Western teams makes me chuckle. It just sounds like people who live in the East who don't stay up late enough to watch Western teams play and therefore know little to nothing about them. Arizona has a team in every major sports league. The Diamondbacks won a World Series, the Suns are always competitive, and the Cardinals just barely lost the Super Bowl what, two years ago? Yes, Phoenix is in the desert, but it ain't like there's only 20 people living there with tumbleweeds as pets. Educate yourselves folks.

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#227 HadThomasVokounOnFortSt

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:11 PM

Hearing people ripping the fanbases of Western teams makes me chuckle. It just sounds like people who live in the East who don't stay up late enough to watch Western teams play and therefore know little to nothing about them. Arizona has a team in every major sports league. The Diamondbacks won a World Series, the Suns are always competitive, and the Cardinals just barely lost the Super Bowl what, two years ago? Yes, Phoenix is in the desert, but it ain't like there's only 20 people living there with tumbleweeds as pets. Educate yourselves folks.

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Don't the Coyotes avg like 6 or 7 thousand to a game? f*** my local college get that many people for there games!

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#228 Doc Holliday

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

Hearing people ripping the fanbases of Western teams makes me chuckle. It just sounds like people who live in the East who don't stay up late enough to watch Western teams play and therefore know little to nothing about them. Arizona has a team in every major sports league. The Diamondbacks won a World Series, the Suns are always competitive, and the Cardinals just barely lost the Super Bowl what, two years ago? Yes, Phoenix is in the desert, but it ain't like there's only 20 people living there with tumbleweeds as pets. Educate yourselves folks.

esteef


The main issue is the team doesn't have a buyer, they can't bring in a high number of fans due to the location, and the team loses money every year.

It's a growing problem.

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#229 esteef

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:28 PM

Don't the Coyotes avg like 6 or 7 thousand to a game? f*** my local college get that many people for there games!

Didn't look like it the other night. Point is, other teams have attendance problems when they suck for a while too (Dead Things era) but don't get near the crap that Phoenix gets about their "fanbase". Is it a traditional hockey market? No. But they have just as many interested fans as anywhere else.

edit: according to ESPN it's about 12,420.

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Edited by esteef, 30 April 2012 - 12:34 PM.

"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#230 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

Phoenix has already gotten as many pucks past Rinne as the Wings did and its all because they work there butts off every shift.

It's so frustrating to watch. But Phoenix does what Detroit wouldn't. They go to the net hard and score the ugly goals you need come playoff time.

Look at where all their goals were scored last night. Minus the empty netter they're all right in the crease/slot area. Same with the first game. they're all scored within like 10 or 15 feet of the net, not wrist shots from along the boards.

The Wings offense depends on a great skill play to score a goal as they maintain puck control along the boards. When that gets shut down, they don't have the ability or willingness to go the middle of the rink, other than on an individual effort by Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

It's not that Rinne is playing that much worse than he did in the first round. It's that the Coyotes have actually put him under fire. He was giving up juicy rebounds against the Wings but there were three Nashville players there to clear the puck before any Wings player was even close.

#231 HadThomasVokounOnFortSt

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

Didn't look like it the other night. Point is, other teams have attendance problems when they suck for a while too (Dead Things era) but don't get near the crap that Phoenix gets about their "fanbase". Is it a traditional hockey market? No. But they have just as many interested fans as anywhere else.

edit: according to ESPN it's about 12,420.

esteef

I saw awhile back it was around 6 or 7 but looks like I am wrong. I'm curious to see what the attendance is game by game and (I don't think there ever will be a stat on this) but I wish you could see by fans at the game. For instance when Red Wings were there last year and even this year, you could see a lot of red in the stands. Hell even look at when the Hawks were there last round.

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#232 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

I wonder if Uncle Gary gets to "paper" the Jobing.com Arena?

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#233 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

The only games I've ever been to here have been wings games, so probably not a fair representation of yotes fans as it seems like the crowd is 70% wings jerseys. Tons of Midwestern transplants here so doesn't surprise me that there were a lot of hawks fans either. In spite of this, the yotes fans always seem well represented and now that they are deeper in the playoffs fans that maybe never went to games are getting excited to get in the arena and experience playoff hockey. I certainly don't think Jobing is in a bad area, and has easy access to the freeway so I don't see that being the barrier...

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#234 esteef

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:56 PM

I saw awhile back it was around 6 or 7 but looks like I am wrong. I'm curious to see what the attendance is game by game and (I don't think there ever will be a stat on this) but I wish you could see by fans at the game. For instance when Red Wings were there last year and even this year, you could see a lot of red in the stands. Hell even look at when the Hawks were there last round.

Here's one current up to Aril 29.

The Sports Network Phoenix Coyotes fan attendance 2011-2012

edit: Sometimes the way they sell tickets deters fans from going too. Wings game tickets being more expensive than other games and having to buy packs of three games to get tix to the team you really want to see are examples. They do that s*** with the Chargers vs. Raiders here in San Diego all the time and people hate it.

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Edited by esteef, 30 April 2012 - 01:59 PM.

"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#235 Shoreline

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

The Coyotes do what other teams like Florida do when selling tickets, even trying to give them away (just like the Florida Panthers), and still can't sell out. That is pretty pathetic.. no idea why the league decided to move an NHL team out in the desert and furthermore keep them there knowing how unprofitable it had been.

Nonetheless, I'm glad the Coyotes are taking it to the Preds and hope it continues in Nashville. I wouldn't mind.

It's also a double edged sword, because in one hand I don't want to see any central division team win (Blues, Preds), on the other hand, it would feel like Gary Bettman wins if the Coyotes do, and I'd like nothing more than to see that douchewad crying at a presser for the Coyotes moving their franchise to somewhere else like Quebec City.

Like some other people, it's disappointing seeing the Coyotes succeed where the Wings fail but we know where that comes from.. the Wings didn't have that type of goaltending, or that type of effort.

Edited by Shoreline, 30 April 2012 - 02:10 PM.


#236 Motown4013

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

It's so frustrating to watch. But Phoenix does what Detroit wouldn't. They go to the net hard and score the ugly goals you need come playoff time. Look at where all their goals were scored last night. Minus the empty netter they're all right in the crease/slot area. Same with the first game. they're all scored within like 10 or 15 feet of the net, not wrist shots from along the boards.

The Wings offense depends on a great skill play to score a goal as they maintain puck control along the boards. When that gets shut down, they don't have the ability or willingness to go the middle of the rink, other than on an individual effort by Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

It's not that Rinne is playing that much worse than he did in the first round. It's that the Coyotes have actually put him under fire. He was giving up juicy rebounds against the Wings but there were three Nashville players there to clear the puck before any Wings player was even close.

This +10. You are right on Harold. I actually took PHX to upset Chicago after watching the team with Mike Smith down the stretch and they have been a VERY good team. They are rushing the Preds to make a decision and Nashville seems frustrated and a bit preplexed on what to do with the speed of the Yotes. Also, the Coyotes are really hungry...they battle for everything- loose change out front, ugly in the corners, in the faceoff circle. They have a ton of passion and sometimes that intensity can be the difference ( as we saw)

Edited by Motown4013, 30 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.

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#237 Vladifan

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:38 PM

So far, Rinne's goaltending makes Nashville look like Pittsburgh South.
Where did they get all the "fans" in Glendale?



Hey, we used to live there. Not a helluva lot going on, although it's right next door to Phoenix. Probably hasn't changed much since then. :bored:

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#238 joshy207

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:00 PM

I'm assuming by your original post, since you singled out Holland, you think the onus is on him. I don't. I know this is a running topic in some of these threads and I have some thoughts on all that after reading most of the input. Yes, these guys used to play well, and not all that long ago. Even this year, after the big string of wins they inevitably went back to the same old s***, over and over and OVER. Not getting traffic at the net; passing incessantly in the offensive zone; keeping the puck to the edges and not fighting for the middle of the ice; not moving enough on power plays to open lanes...How is that kind of "teamwork" Holland's fault? I'm saying most of them still HAVE the talent. They haven't all lost it at once. Nobody pushed a button and all of a sudden they all got old and slow. So why do they keep doing the "insanity" thing? Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results? I say that's mainly on Babcock and the assistant coaches who either think they're doing the right things with their boyz, or they do not know how to reach the players to make them see how they're screwing up and how bad they really look. And how to make them a TEAM again. That to me is outrageous - that Babcock can't come up with a way to hold a mirror up to them to make them see how embarrassing their play became. Injuries can't explain most of what happened with the Wings.

Yeah, Holland could make changes. But there's no way in hell there can be dramatic changes. There's a whole lot of teams out there with lots of cap space and not that many good players coming up for grabs. Parity is now the name of the game and the Wings are going to be one of many players trying to bring on some players that can really help.

I think whether we like it or not, improvement is going to be slow in coming, unless Babcock and his boyz gain a new perspective. And right now I'm just trying to balance my perspective with remembrances of the Good Old Days, when the Detroit Red Wings pretty much had it all. I don't think it's gonna happen again in any team's lifetime for some time to come.


I don't solely blame Holland for the team's overall situation, Babcock and the players have equal share in that as well. Nor do I think the players have lost their talent. I think a lot of them have lost motivation, excitement, passion, inspiration, fear of losing their spot on the team, whatever you want to call it. Perhaps making the playoffs EVERY YEAR is as much of a curse as it is a blessing.. some of the players have come to expect it, no matter how they play in the regular season, so "why give it our all? And if we don't win, it's OK, we'll all be here again next season." Holland has been saying for at least the past year that the team needs to get better, he is going to make changes, but those changes and improvements aren't coming. He sat relatively idly by while some other teams re-signed, traded for, or snagged on the open market, the kind of fresh blood this team so badly needs. When prodded, he claimed the prices were too high. So, having all the extra cap room this season, we expected (or at least were hoping for) some big acquisitions at the deadline. Again, we were let down, because "the prices were too high" (you mean like a 1st rounder for Gaustad and a 4th rounder?) or "we didn't like what was available" or "we didn't want to take on big contracts" (even expiring ones???) and the team went out in the first round with barely a whimper. It's time for the players to learn that their lack of effort (regular and post-season) is unacceptable, a point which can be made quickly and loudly with an unexpected trade or two. THAT is where I blame Holland. And I think we're in for another summer of Holland Sticker Shock. He's not going to like the $17M-plus he'd have to shell out for Suter and Parise.
Babcock isn't without his share of blame here. At times I think his message is lost on the players, in part because he's too intense for most of them. He's the type of coach who, as I read somewhere, "removes his team's brakes and installs another gas pedal." If you've given your all, it's not enough. You can always skate harder and hit more. I honestly believe Babcock would rather wear his opponents down with relentless forechecking than lull them to sleep with a thousand passes. But he, like the players, had to buy into the system to come here and stay. There are a lot of rumblings about a disconnect between Holland and Babcock regarding player personnel (i.e. Brendan Smith being in GR for the last 2 years and Babcock wanting the team to be bigger and more physical) and a disconnect between Babcock and the players. Babcock, IMO, needs to get these situations under control, adapt to what he has to work with while perhaps getting them to mix up their playing style a bit (like going to the dump-and-chase when puck possession isn't working) and not being afraid to sit a player down who isn't doing what is asked of him, who is performing far below expectations, or who is trying to play through an injury and is ineffective (Cleary, for example). If he isn't able to do this, he won't be here much longer.
While I think this club is crying out desperately for changes... larger-scale changes, not just a 4th line tweak... and this can work, just look at Florida's mass turnover and resulting drastic improvement this year... I don't see it happening as long as Holland is in charge. And barring a major collapse, like finishing behind Columbus for a couple years, I don't see Holland losing his job as long as Mr. Ilitch is running the show. He hates to change his teams even less than Holland does.

Hearing people ripping the fanbases of Western teams makes me chuckle. It just sounds like people who live in the East who don't stay up late enough to watch Western teams play and therefore know little to nothing about them. Arizona has a team in every major sports league. The Diamondbacks won a World Series, the Suns are always competitive, and the Cardinals just barely lost the Super Bowl what, two years ago? Yes, Phoenix is in the desert, but it ain't like there's only 20 people living there with tumbleweeds as pets. Educate yourselves folks.

esteef


"Population" and "Fan Base" are two totally separate things. There are very few hockey fans in the Phoenix area when compared to the overall population. Not enough to support an NHL team any longer.

#239 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

Preds beginning to look rattled.

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#240 puckbags

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:33 AM

No Radulov and no Kostitsyn tonight..violated team rules, nice timing Russian friends. For all Radulov brings to the table their is always going to be that selfish side.

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