91 replies to this topic

[joshy207]

Hollands problem is, he likes this team. He refuses to ditch certain players who haven't shown up that last few playoffs. He rewards veterans with contract just because they were/are loyal to him. He let's Nick Lidstrom tell HIM what he wants to make. He is still waiting for "playoff Franzen" to show up and he still believes that UFA's will flock to Detroit, just because of their history PLUS they will more than welcome accepting 1/3 less salary for that same reason...

Couldn't agree more. And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer... and I think it's the less, the better for Lidstrom. I don't think he wants to play with a bunch of new guys, he'd rather have as much of this team back as possible. And I think that's what he's going to get. Holland seems to not want to lose Lidstrom (can't say I blame him, but...) and will do whatever it takes to retain him, including putting the band back together.


-Stuart out, Smith in full-time.
-Nyquist may replace one of Hudler, Emmerton, or Mursak.
-Conklin out, MacDonald in if healthy, otherwise enter a veteran backup.
Meet your new Wings, same as the old Wings...


And, "We like our team" is the new "Our power play is our enforcer." PUUUUUKE.

Edited by joshy207, 25 April 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[LeftWinger]

Couldn't agree more. And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer... and I think it's the less, the better for Lidstrom. I don't think he wants to play with a bunch of new guys, he'd rather have as much of this team back as possible. And I think that's what he's going to get. Holland seems to not want to lose Lidstrom (can't say I blame him, but...) and will do whatever it takes to retain him, including putting the band back together.


-Stuart out, Smith in full-time.
-Nyquist may replace one of Hudler, Emmerton, or Mursak.
-Conklin out, MacDonald in if healthy, otherwise enter a veteran backup.
Meet your new Wings, same as the old Wings...


And, "We like our team" is the new "Our power play is our enforcer." PUUUUUKE.

ah yes, but unlike the song, we WILL get fooled again.

All the "inside talk" about Wings having the track on Parise and making him and Suter their number 1 priorities...we will get overexcited only to be let down yet again...

Change it had to come,
We knew it all along,
We were liberated from the Wings fall that's all,
But the Team looks just the same
And history ain't changed
And Ken Holland Likes His Team The way it is!

Just like yesterday
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We've ALL been fooled again!

[kipwinger]

So I'm just aggregating from all the different posts here, but it looks like you guys are suggesting this team gets rid of Abby, Eaves, Emmerton, Hudler, Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Lidstrom, Quincey, White, Kindl, Franzen,Cleary, Mursak, Conklin, McDonald and Stuart in various combinations. Leaving Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Miller, Helm, Filppula, Kronwall and Ericsson. Well that's not MUCH of a turnover.

[Hatethedrake!]

ah yes, but unlike the song, we WILL get fooled again.

All the "inside talk" about Wings having the track on Parise and making him and Suter their number 1 priorities...we will get overexcited only to be let down yet again...

Change it had to come,
We knew it all along,
We were liberated from the Wings fall that's all,
But the Team looks just the same
And history ain't changed
And Ken Holland Likes His Team The way it is!

Just like yesterday
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We've ALL been fooled again!

Come on man, I see another The Who song...

Out here in Kenny's fields
He makes phone calls and gets a feel
He doesn't need to be forgiven

He knows signing Parise is right
He has Suter in his sights
This is how Kenny makes his livin'

Free Agent Wasteland....
Living in a Free Agent Wasteland
Free Agent Wasteland...

THEY'RE ALL WASTED!

Edited by Hatethedrake!, 26 April 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[Red Wings Addict]

We like our team.

[Dabura]

One of the things that's, you know, really easy to forget is how competitive the league has become, I mean in terms of teams and contending. Now, is it parity? Is it, you know, is it that the talent is just that much better? I don't claim to know, and I'd say anyone who does, it's probably not true. There's no crystal ball with this kind of thing. I'll be honest, sometimes, in certain situations, it can seem like a crap shoot. So, you know, as a GM, you have to be prepared to maybe, where you would have, you know, signed that key piece ten years ago, I think as a GM in today's NHL, there are more considerations that have to be made. Speaking for me personally and this specific organization, we have a great tradition, obviously. But, you know, does that mean we go out and spend all the money we've saved for x, y, and z player? Well, my question would be, you know, first, are these guys we like, and if not, could we perhaps grow to like them? Because, let's face it, just because they're perfect, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good fit. I can tell you from experience, things do not always go as planned. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they rarely do. But then, I guess that's life. I think we're at a place now in our developmental process where we can kind of take a step back and take it all in, you know? Just take a good hard look at our prospect pool and maybe, you know, for all we know we already have a Zach Parise hiding right under our noses. We like our team.

[PaZel]

No Suter =( But would Garrison be a good addition? Would he sign for that little?
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($8.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.950m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Darren Helm ($1.250m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Riley Sheahan ($0.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jason Garrison ($1.450m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $65,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,792,295; BONUSES: $222,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $218,715

[Crymson]

Couldn't agree more. And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer

Incorrect. He will make his decision before July 1st.

[joshy207]

Incorrect. He will make his decision before July 1st.

I know. I'm saying, if Holland says he's keeping most of the team and making only minor changes, then I think Lidstrom will be more inclined to return. But if Holland says he's going to trade 3 or 4 guys away and not re-sign Hudler and Holmstrom, I think he'll be more inclined to walk away.

[frankgrimes]

Reading between the lines I think Odin (as some of you are calling him), has put the pressure on Kenny too. This offseason will be huge if we get the missing pieces and he believes we can compete for this cup, 5 will be b ack if not we saw his last game without effort from 80 % of our players, sad but thats what I think will happen.

[SaCkaveli20]

Watching both games today, Parise should be absolute #1 priority.

[Drake_Marcus]

-Nyquist may replace one of Hudler, Emmerton, or Mursak.

A straight Hudler for Nyquist swap wouldn't make the team deeper. It's unfair to ask a rookie to walk in and post 50pts minimum. Switching Nyquist in for a guy like Emmmerton? That's a big increase in scoring depth. I'm not sure they're willing to give up on Emmerton just yet, though. It all depends on who stays and who goes this summer. I don't really care what happens with Cory but wish him the best none-the-less.

And, "We like our team" is the new "Our power play is our enforcer." PUUUUUKE.

A cliched line repeated ad nauseum on the internet with no regard to context? Yup.

[xtrememachine1]

Watching both games today, Parise should be absolute #1 priority.

While there's nobody on the free agent market I want more, I would be surprised to see him come to Detroit. Some idiot GM out there looking to keep his job by making an off season "splash" will throw $8 or $9 mil at him and that will be the end of that. Maybe he turns down one of those offers to sign with a competitive team for slightly less, but one thing is for sure he'll get these insane deals from desperate teams.

[blueadams]

This team needs MAJOR change, and that's what I'm proposing here.

Subtractions:
...Traded: D. Cleary, T. Bertuzzi.
...Demoted: R. Sheahan.
...Not Resigned: K. Quincey(RFA), B. Stuart, J. Hudler, T. Holmstrom, T. Conklin.

Additions:
...Promoted: B. Smith, T. Tatar, C. Jarnkrok(0.9m)
...Signed: D. Helm(RFA)(1.4m), J. Abdelkader(RFA)(1.3m), Z. Parise(7.0m), R. Suter(6.0m), A. Semin(5.0m), N. Lidstrom(2.6m).

*This plan asks Nick Lidstrom to return at an ENORMOUS pay-cut in exchange for a chance at one last cup. I hope he'll do it. If he wants a little more, there are some things that can be done to create more cap space (there would be a about 5.0 mil to give him if we replaced Abdelkader, Eaves and Kindl with Mursak, Conner and Janik). If he's not at all interested, resign K. Quincey and call it an off-season.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($6.000m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($2.600m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,657,045; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $642,955

Edited by blueadams, 30 April 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[xtrememachine1]

Additions:
...Promoted: B. Smith, T. Tatar, C. Jarnkrok(0.9m)
...Signed: D. Helm(RFA)(1.4m), J. Abdelkader(RFA)(1.3m), Z. Parise(7.0m), R. Suter(6.0m), A. Semin(5.0m), N. Lidstrom(2.6m).

This is a thread to talk about what could realistically happen. Parise at $7 Mil, sure. Suter at $6 mil? Never. If Wiz is getting $5.5 from Columbus, Suter is getting at LEAST $6.5mil, but more realistically $7mil. Semin for $5 mil? While I do agree that he'll get less than his current salary of $6.7 mil, $5mil? His numbers haven't exactly been great lately, plus him getting demoted to the 4th line every now and then, I don't see him right now being better than Hudler. Not to mention, he's probably one of the softest players in the league. Lidstrom for $2.6 mil is the worst though. He's not going to come back for another season at that price.

Edited by xtrememachine1, 30 April 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[blueadams]

This is a thread to talk about what could realistically happen. Parise at $7 Mil, sure. Suter at $6 mil? Never. If Wiz is getting $5.5 from Columbus, Suter is getting at LEAST $6.5mil, but more realistically $7mil. Semin for $5 mil? While I do agree that he'll get less than his current salary of $6.7 mil, $5mil? His numbers haven't exactly been great lately, plus him getting demoted to the 4th line every now and then, I don't see him right now being better than Hudler. Not to mention, he's probably one of the softest players in the league. Lidstrom for $2.6 mil is the worst though. He's not going to come back for another season at that price.

Here.

Now Suter gets 7.0m, and Lidstrom gets 4.5m.

...Just had to replace Abdelkader, Eaves and Kindl with Mursak and Janik (22, not 23, man roster). Emmerton-Helm-Miller is a great 4th line; Mursak is a great 13th F; Janik is a great 7th D.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.513m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,236,212; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): 63,788

Edited by blueadams, 30 April 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[LeftWinger]

Here.

Now Suter gets 7.0m, and Lidstrom gets 4.5m.

...Just had to replace Abdelkader, Eaves and Kindl with Mursak and Janik (22, not 23, man roster). Emmerton-Helm-Miller is a great 4th line; Mursak is a great 13th F; Janik is a great 7th D.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.513m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,236,212; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): 63,788

Emmerton, Mursak or Jarnkrok will NOT be replacing Abdelkader anytime soon...sorry, your 3rd line is a pipedream...Plus Abdelkader is far better than Emmerton or Mursak. Other than that, I like your team, but the more Semin gets demoted, the less I like him. Also, too much money for Lidstrom and not enough for Suter or Parise, unless they sign 10 year contracts.

Bottom line is, Lidstrom needs to tell Holland he will take what's left after going HARD after Suter and Parise and offering them the world to finish their career's here...THEN and ONLY THEN should Lidstrom consider re-signing. No way Holland gets EITHER of Parise or Suter if he waits on Lidstrom and then gives him $6.2M ($4.5M is also too much) again...Nick needs to do right by his fans and this team...retire or take the HUGE paycut to insure the teams future as perennial contenders... without Suter and Parise, they won't be.

Edited by LeftWinger, 30 April 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[xtrememachine1]

Here.

Now Suter gets 7.0m, and Lidstrom gets 4.5m.

...Just had to replace Abdelkader, Eaves and Kindl with Mursak and Janik (22, not 23, man roster). Emmerton-Helm-Miller is a great 4th line; Mursak is a great 13th F; Janik is a great 7th D.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.513m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

LOL Abby, Eaves and Kindl are just gone like that? Plus, who is going to trade for Cleary and Bert? I'm assuming those are salary dump deals. An entire line of players that has very little NHL experience doesn't seem like something Holland would do. Its fine that you come up with these plans and rosters and lines, but the theme of this is thread is "what would Ken Holland really do?". I don't see him trading Bert, Cleary, Eaves and Kindl and just letting Abdelkader go. I also don't see us signing both Parise AND Suter. One other thing you're not taking into account is that Filppula, White and Howard will all be UFA's next summer. Datsyuk will be a UFA the year after that. If we're signing all these players for multi-year contracts and spending up to the cap, how do we retain these other players going forward? Its not as easy as, "we can mathematically fit them onto our team next year so let's do it". Its unfortunately a lot more difficult than that which is why Holland will have a tough time this summer.

[xtrememachine1]

Nick needs to do right by his fans and this team...retire or take the HUGE paycut to insure the teams future as perennial contenders... without Suter and Parise, they won't be.

You don't ask the 7 time Norris trophy winning captain and face of the franchise to take a HUGE paycut. Maybe he just makes $5.5 this year or $5, but anything less, unless suggested by Lidstrom himself, is insulting. I mean, I understand he didn't have a great year, but he didn't have a great year in 2004 either. Everybody's numbers were down this year and he was no exception. If Lidstrom decides against retirement, Holland needs to give him a Lidstrom worthy contract.

As for being with Suter and Parise, they're not getting both. That's not realistic. As I mentioned in another thread, someone will drastically overpay for Parise and he'll be out of our price range. Suter's a defenseman and defense is really going high the past couple years, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him get out of our range too. For them to come here, we would need them to WANT to be here. If they chase the money, we'll have neither.

Realistic moves by Holland would be signing Scott Hannan, a defensive minded defenseman that helped Calgary's PK this past season. Michal Rozsival, a puck moving defenseman with good hockey sense. Maybe they get Matt Carle from Philly. Dominic Moore, a good two way center with some offensive upside. Sammy Pahlsson or maybe we go after Paul Gaustad since we saw first hand how effective he can be in the playoffs. Maybe they take a chance on Brad Boyes, a former 40 goal scorer, I'd imagine he'd come cheap. These are the types of moves Holland will realistically make. Its not Holland's style, since the cap was put in place, to go after the crown jewels of the free agency class. It IS his style to go after low priced players and get a lot out of them.

[Andy Pred 48]

i love Lids, but if he does intend on signing for another season he should do the Org a fav and take a big paycut. How would it go down if Lids demands $6m again and we lose out on Suter by not having enough to offer him to come here, after all its a business. I say try and tie up Suter long tem first and then tell Lids this is what we have to play with and can offer you $?m's. Hopefully Nic will help out before any of this came up. I can't imagine us losing out on a guy who could be the cornerstone of the team for the next 10years because we wanted to keep our exsisting one for another season. Just something to think about eh.