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What's REALLY going to happen this off-season?


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#61 blueadams

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:07 PM

Emmerton, Mursak or Jarnkrok will NOT be replacing Abdelkader anytime soon...sorry, your 3rd line is a pipedream...Plus Abdelkader is far better than Emmerton or Mursak. Other than that, I like your team, but the more Semin gets demoted, the less I like him. Also, too much money for Lidstrom and not enough for Suter or Parise, unless they sign 10 year contracts.

Bottom line is, Lidstrom needs to tell Holland he will take what's left after going HARD after Suter and Parise and offering them the world to finish their career's here...THEN and ONLY THEN should Lidstrom consider re-signing. No way Holland gets EITHER of Parise or Suter if he waits on Lidstrom and then gives him $6.2M ($4.5M is also too much) again...Nick needs to do right by his fans and this team...retire or take the HUGE paycut to insure the teams future as perennial contenders... without Suter and Parise, they won't be.


1) my whole post is a pipedream. none of this crap is going to really happen. we'll roll out the exact same crappy team next season that we have for the last three seasons.

2) what is it about abdelkader that is "better" than anyone else?

3) agree on lidstrom...that's what should happen. but no, we will give him probably 6.0 mil for another season. and give homer another 1.5 so nick has someone to carpool with.

LOL Abby, Eaves and Kindl are just gone like that? Plus, who is going to trade for Cleary and Bert? I'm assuming those are salary dump deals. An entire line of players that has very little NHL experience doesn't seem like something Holland would do. Its fine that you come up with these plans and rosters and lines, but the theme of this is thread is "what would Ken Holland really do?". I don't see him trading Bert, Cleary, Eaves and Kindl and just letting Abdelkader go. I also don't see us signing both Parise AND Suter. One other thing you're not taking into account is that Filppula, White and Howard will all be UFA's next summer. Datsyuk will be a UFA the year after that. If we're signing all these players for multi-year contracts and spending up to the cap, how do we retain these other players going forward? Its not as easy as, "we can mathematically fit them onto our team next year so let's do it". Its unfortunately a lot more difficult than that which is why Holland will have a tough time this summer.


1a) let abby walk. 1b) trade kindl and eaves for whatever prospects/picks you can get...or for absolutely nothing if you can't get anything...or just put them through waivers and let them make their money in grand rapids next year if you have to.

2) exact same deal for cleary and bert.

3) no, holland wouldn't do that. holland won't do anything. he'll just roll out the exact same crappy team again in another desperate attempt to maintain the status quo that's been dwindling since bowman left.

4) lidstrom finally retiring gives us cap space to pay their raises.

You don't ask the 7 time Norris trophy winning captain and face of the franchise to take a HUGE paycut. Maybe he just makes $5.5 this year or $5, but anything less, unless suggested by Lidstrom himself, is insulting. I mean, I understand he didn't have a great year, but he didn't have a great year in 2004 either. Everybody's numbers were down this year and he was no exception. If Lidstrom decides against retirement, Holland needs to give him a Lidstrom worthy contract.

As for being with Suter and Parise, they're not getting both. That's not realistic. As I mentioned in another thread, someone will drastically overpay for Parise and he'll be out of our price range. Suter's a defenseman and defense is really going high the past couple years, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him get out of our range too. For them to come here, we would need them to WANT to be here. If they chase the money, we'll have neither.

Realistic moves by Holland would be signing Scott Hannan, a defensive minded defenseman that helped Calgary's PK this past season. Michal Rozsival, a puck moving defenseman with good hockey sense. Maybe they get Matt Carle from Philly. Dominic Moore, a good two way center with some offensive upside. Sammy Pahlsson or maybe we go after Paul Gaustad since we saw first hand how effective he can be in the playoffs. Maybe they take a chance on Brad Boyes, a former 40 goal scorer, I'd imagine he'd come cheap. These are the types of moves Holland will realistically make. Its not Holland's style, since the cap was put in place, to go after the crown jewels of the free agency class. It IS his style to go after low priced players and get a lot out of them.


boy, isn't that an exciting team with stanley cup potential!!

to hell with lidstrom's mega-millionaire feelings.

i love Lids, but if he does intend on signing for another season he should do the Org a fav and take a big paycut. How would it go down if Lids demands $6m again and we lose out on Suter by not having enough to offer him to come here, after all its a business. I say try and tie up Suter long tem first and then tell Lids this is what we have to play with and can offer you $?m's. Hopefully Nic will help out before any of this came up. I can't imagine us losing out on a guy who could be the cornerstone of the team for the next 10years because we wanted to keep our exsisting one for another season. Just something to think about eh.


unfortunately, that's exactly what's going to happen.

#62 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

I know. I'm saying, if Holland says he's keeping most of the team and making only minor changes, then I think Lidstrom will be more inclined to return. But if Holland says he's going to trade 3 or 4 guys away and not re-sign Hudler and Holmstrom, I think he'll be more inclined to walk away.

i don't know about Nick, but it wouldn't make sense for Kenny to say, hey Nick, we're going with the same crew that sucked s*** last year in the playoffs and got bounced in 5 games... :blink:

I would expect Nick to hang them up with that idea. If you insert Parise, Suter and a guy like Prust, or get Jarnkrok on the team along with Smith full time and get some much needed youth in the line up it SHOULD make the team much more appealing to sign with. Lids needs to be motivated into playing, not bored into retirement. Scrap Prust and insert Jarnkrok with not signing a few guys and you could have a pretty solid lineup...

Parise-Dats-Franzen
Flip-Z-Gus
Bert-Jarnkrok-Cleary
Abby-Helm-Miller
Mursak

Lids-Suter
Smith-Kronwall
White-Ericsson
Kindl

Howie-McDonald

That's a lot more exciting than the uninspired boring repetitive s*** we watched this year. aside from the home win streak, this season was a black mark on a dynasty.

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#63 xtrememachine1

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

1a) let abby walk. 1b) trade kindl and eaves for whatever prospects/picks you can get...or for absolutely nothing if you can't get anything...or just put them through waivers and let them make their money in grand rapids next year if you have to.

2) exact same deal for cleary and bert.


Kind of harsh, especially since Eaves just signed that deal and missed the year because of an injury. Its not like he was ineffective. Bert and Clearly won't be traded. Their value is really low right now, I don't see why anyone would want them even for prospects. Bert just signed a deal too, you don't put guys that just signed on waivers. You don't want to scare away other potential free agents.

3) no, holland wouldn't do that. holland won't do anything. he'll just roll out the exact same crappy team again in another desperate attempt to maintain the status quo that's been dwindling since bowman left.


Actually after Bowman left he made a number of big moves. Hatcher, Lang, Cujo, resigned Hasek, traded for Schneider. Its since the cap was put in place that he's been more cautious and with good reason. I sure would hate to see the Wings be up against the cap in a couple years with Datsyuk ready to become a UFA.

4) lidstrom finally retiring gives us cap space to pay their raises.

Not if he's getting a "big" pay cut now. If he's making $4 mil this year, that's not going to be enough to re-sign Howard, White, and Filppula and Datsyuk the year after that. If the cap goes up by a ton or gets eliminated altogether, then that's a different story, but right now Holland has to assume the cap will be the same or very similar years from now.

boy, isn't that an exciting team with stanley cup potential!!

to hell with lidstrom's mega-millionaire feelings.


I never said it was exciting, I just said those are the types of moves Holland will probably make. Babcock said that the team needs better depth. Blowing $14 mil on two players doesn't fill out depth, it makes us a top heavy team and gives us a lot less flexibility down the line, in regards to the cap, to re-sign core members of this team.

#64 kipwinger

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:40 PM

This team needs MAJOR change, and that's what I'm proposing here.

Subtractions:
...Traded: D. Cleary, T. Bertuzzi.
...Demoted: R. Sheahan.
...Not Resigned: K. Quincey(RFA), B. Stuart, J. Hudler, T. Holmstrom, T. Conklin.

Additions:
...Promoted: B. Smith, T. Tatar, C. Jarnkrok(0.9m)
...Signed: D. Helm(RFA)(1.4m), J. Abdelkader(RFA)(1.3m), Z. Parise(7.0m), R. Suter(6.0m), A. Semin(5.0m), N. Lidstrom(2.6m).

*This plan asks Nick Lidstrom to return at an ENORMOUS pay-cut in exchange for a chance at one last cup. I hope he'll do it. If he wants a little more, there are some things that can be done to create more cap space (there would be a about 5.0 mil to give him if we replaced Abdelkader, Eaves and Kindl with Mursak, Conner and Janik). If he's not at all interested, resign K. Quincey and call it an off-season.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($6.000m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($2.600m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,657,045; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $642,955


Didn't you start this thread to be "realist" and discuss what might actually happen rather than what we want to see happen in our own personal dream world. For some reason I thought the title of the thread suggested something like that. Because the realist implication seems to suggest that we wouldn't start five rookies next season, sign three high profile free agents, ask our current captain and heart and soul to accept half the money he's making now, and cut ties with a class act locker room guy and another guy we just signed to a 2 year extension based on the quality of his play, a guy we traded a first round pick for, and another guy coming off a career year. That is, of course, unless you think that's realistic and you didn't start this thread to satisfy your own need to play imaginary GM on capgeek.com. Anyway...back to sleep.

Edited by kipwinger, 30 April 2012 - 08:41 PM.

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#65 joshy207

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

A straight Hudler for Nyquist swap wouldn't make the team deeper. It's unfair to ask a rookie to walk in and post 50pts minimum. Switching Nyquist in for a guy like Emmmerton? That's a big increase in scoring depth. I'm not sure they're willing to give up on Emmerton just yet, though. It all depends on who stays and who goes this summer. I don't really care what happens with Cory but wish him the best none-the-less.

I'm talking strictly roster spots here, not roles. Although Nyquist, if on a line with Datsyuk and someone else halfway decent offensively, may be able to get close to 50 points.

A cliched line repeated ad nauseum on the internet with no regard to context? Yup.


No context intended or required. Both are lines that Holland has spewed more than once, and if I never hear either one again, I'll be happy.

#66 LeftWinger

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:04 PM

Lidstrom needs to let Holland pursue Suter and Parise with his wallet wide open, then re-sign Helm, Abby. Then and only then, should Holland sit down with Lidstrom. For the first time in a long time, Holland's #1 priority is not to re-sign Lidstrom, but to secure the next 10 years of this franchise. If Lids wants to be part of the transition, he needs to step back, let Holland spend his Cap, then come in for one more season and a HUGE reduced rate. Honestly, with Suter being signed, Kronwall playing a larger roll and Ericsson looking to get even more ice and White still here, Lidstrom may actually be a #4 or #5 defender is he re-signs...

Edited by LeftWinger, 30 April 2012 - 10:09 PM.

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#67 Hairy Lime

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:59 PM

I just heard from a Boston pal that there is talk down there of the Bruins possibly moving Lucic, don't know how much truth to it? BUT... Abdelkader + Franzen? Well, I can dream, can't I. I don't expect many changes. I'm sure Holland STILL likes the team that he has. Do you think someone has told him that Detroit has been eliminated, because I'm not even sure he watches the games.

#68 Dszymo12

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:04 PM

It depends on what the Cap is. If it stays at 64 mil then there is no room. If it goes up to 68 then there is. If Suter wanted to stay in Nashville, he would have signed a long term extension a long time ago. The fact that he hasn't shows that the writing is on the wall. Nick is not taking a huge pay cut. He has done too much for this team to be disrespected like that.



The problem with Lidstrom is that he's not the leader that Stevie Y was. Yzerman took a steep pay cut in his salary for the Red Wings to sign players before he retired. That is the difference between a great leader and a selfish one. Lidstrom i absolutely love the man, great player, arguably one of the best defensemen to every play the game, but he needs to not be selfish. Take a page out of Stevie's book and take a pay-cut so the organization can succeed.

Lidstrom needs to let Holland pursue Suter and Parise with his wallet wide open, then re-sign Helm, Abby. Then and only then, should Holland sit down with Lidstrom. For the first time in a long time, Holland's #1 priority is not to re-sign Lidstrom, but to secure the next 10 years of this franchise. If Lids wants to be part of the transition, he needs to step back, let Holland spend his Cap, then come in for one more season and a HUGE reduced rate. Honestly, with Suter being signed, Kronwall playing a larger roll and Ericsson looking to get even more ice and White still here, Lidstrom may actually be a #4 or #5 defender is he re-signs...



I completely agree with you LeftWinger, Kenny needs to find a solution for the next ten years, like you said. We have been fortunate to have Lidstrom for 20 years, but now is the time that Kenny works with our cap sign players to help our future, b/c who knows how long Lidstrom will want to stay before he retires. He has made plenty of money throughout the years, now its time that since he'll be 43 next year to take a huge pay cut if he'd like to stay for one more year.

#69 MTU_Huskies963

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:48 PM

What about Dustin Penner? How he is playing right now may not warrant the big price tag, but I do like his grit after watching the kings this post season.

#70 F.Michael

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:49 AM

Lidstrom needs to let Holland pursue Suter and Parise with his wallet wide open, then re-sign Helm, Abby. Then and only then, should Holland sit down with Lidstrom. For the first time in a long time, Holland's #1 priority is not to re-sign Lidstrom, but to secure the next 10 years of this franchise. If Lids wants to be part of the transition, he needs to step back, let Holland spend his Cap, then come in for one more season and a HUGE reduced rate. Honestly, with Suter being signed, Kronwall playing a larger roll and Ericsson looking to get even more ice and White still here, Lidstrom may actually be a #4 or #5 defender is he re-signs...

Substitute Konopka for Abdelkader...The rest is pretty much spot on.

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#71 ogreslayer

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:00 AM

The problem with Lidstrom is that he's not the leader that Stevie Y was. Yzerman took a steep pay cut in his salary for the Red Wings to sign players before he retired. That is the difference between a great leader and a selfish one. Lidstrom i absolutely love the man, great player, arguably one of the best defensemen to every play the game, but he needs to not be selfish. Take a page out of Stevie's book and take a pay-cut so the organization can succeed.

And near the end, Stevie was maybe a quarter of the player he used to be due to injuries and there wasn't any debate that he was no longer the #1 forward on the team let alone it's best player. I think there's still plenty of sentiment that Lids is easily the #1 d-man on the team yet & is still probably second only to Pavel as far as his impact on games. And as far as pay cuts, he's been taking them for years on end.

#72 Dabura

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:06 PM

Re: Lucic - Would be a fantastic addition. Don't see it happening, though.

Penner, on the other hand - I could see it happening, but I'm not so keen on the idea. Robert Lang, Johan Franzen...Dustin Penner.

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#73 ZigZagYourTorso

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:20 PM

Don't call me a psychic....but I think we're giong to end up seeing something very close this.

FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Evander Kane ($5.000m)
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Martin Hanzal ($3.100m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.300m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)
DEFENSEMEN
Shea Weber ($7.500m) / Oliver E.-Larsson ($1.750m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Anders Lindback ($0.715m)

Just a few simple trades/signings/offer sheet and we'll have a team that is built to get out of the first round.
The cake is a lie...

#74 F.Michael

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:24 PM

Don't call me a psychic....but I think we're giong to end up seeing something very close this.

FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Evander Kane ($5.000m)
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Martin Hanzal ($3.100m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.300m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)
DEFENSEMEN
Shea Weber ($7.500m) / Oliver E.-Larsson ($1.750m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Anders Lindback ($0.715m)

Just a few simple trades/signings/offer sheet and we'll have a team that is built to get out of the first round.

:rotflmao:

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#75 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:38 PM

1a) let abby walk. 1b) trade kindl and eaves for whatever prospects/picks you can get...or for absolutely nothing if you can't get anything...or just put them through waivers and let them make their money in grand rapids next year if you have to.

2) exact same deal for cleary and bert.

3) no, holland wouldn't do that. holland won't do anything. he'll just roll out the exact same crappy team again in another desperate attempt to maintain the status quo that's been dwindling since bowman left.


Man, it must suck to be so incredibly wrong. :rolleyes:

"I can't mention names because that would be tampering," Devellano said. "But the only thing I will tell you is Ken Holland will be very aggressive come July 1. I think you know how we operate. I think you know how Mike Ilitch operates. We'll be aggressive. If there are some good players out there, we're gonna go hard.

"We know the team needs to improve.

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#76 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:47 PM

It's pretty comical that you think Holland would treat this year's embarrassingly early exit the same way he treated last year's 7-game exit in the 2nd round (where Datsyuk was the playoffs' leading scorer in terms of points per game by a large margin and most of the team performed admirably in terms of offense with the exception of a few injured guys).

Last year Lidstrom was a Norris winner who looked like he could keep it going another year and the FA defense market was pathetic.

This year it was very apparent that the time to find a Lidstrom successor is here and a guy who can shut down premier forwards and provide Norris-caliber hockey is entering the market as a UFA.

In short: anyone who thinks Holland won't go as hard as he can after Sutter and Parise is stupid.

No context intended or required. Both are lines that Holland has spewed more than once, and if I never hear either one again, I'll be happy.


I assume by 'more than once' you mean exactly once. Pro tip: if 20 reporters write the same quote down it doesn't count as having been said 20 times by the original speaker.
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#77 F.Michael

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:48 PM

Man, it must suck to be so incredibly wrong. :rolleyes:


http://www.mlive.com...t_bigger_a.html

I agree with blueadams; I'm not expecting much this summer..Holland will sign Lids for 1 more year, and ink Hudler to a 3 year deal.

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#78 Dabura

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:34 PM

Drake,

We clearly need Parise and Suter. I don't think anyone here would disagree. The thing is, Ken Holland might.

This team has needed to get bigger and tougher for the better part of a decade - and even now, Holland is giving no indication that he even believes it's an issue, let alone something he must address.

Do I think Holland will make a hard push for Parise and for Suter? Yes. Do I think he'll push as hard as he possibly can (i.e. sign them both)? I'm not entirely confident he will.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#79 Doc Holliday

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:47 PM

I agree with blueadams; I'm not expecting much this summer..Holland will sign Lids for 1 more year, and ink Hudler to a 3 year deal.


No, you aren't expecting anything this summer based on what you posted. And that right there is silly.

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#80 wings_fanatic

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:26 PM

Reading some of this is just crap. Honestly the amount of you guys who have just completely went against Nicklas Lidstrom is retarded. For the love of god he was playing very well until he got injured (fluke injury) and was in contention for the god damn norris trophy!! The only reason he looked somewhat human near the end of the season was because he never fully recovered from that injury. The man clearly has a lot of hockey left in him and he has been such a good leader for this team over the years it is not even funny. Any true Red Wings fan would want Lidstrom to come back no matter what and would realize he should be and IS their top priority going into the offseason. I truly feel very confident that he will choose to come back 1 more year and when he does, a lot of you debunking him right now will be right back on the wagon telling all of your friends how great Nick is.

Anyways, I think that after Kenny signs Nick up, he will first go after a goal scorer. I think it is very realistic to imagine the Wings landing Parise and Suter because they are very good friends, it is known that they would like to play together and Parise has stated several times how he loves the Wings system and style, and mentioned what it would be like to play with Pavel. Obviously it would take a lot of luck to get both of them, but it is very much possible.

If Kenny is unable to get Parise, then he will go after Semin, who I think would be a nice fit with Pavel. The advantage for Semin is that he is a right handed shot, has lots of skill, would be cheaper than Parise, and could still get at least 30 goals playing with Pavs.

After this route, I think Kenny will also add a bigger body forward to the 4th line.





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