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b.shanafan14

Johan Franzen wants to 'have more fun'

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So now Franzen has had three amazing postseasons and four mediocre to bad ones.

In the next season or two we'll know for sure if he really has a beast mode for the playoffs or if those few years were an aberration and now he's gone back to his normal level.

Franzen was a third liner who was just coming into the league in his first two years. Not sure why you mention those.

Also, from that same article:

“I don't think we scored even-strength at all (four five-on-five goals in the series),'' Babcock said. “I don't think you want to point at the Mule. I think you want to point at all of us.''

The coach who was brutally honest about what he wants out of Ken Holland now decides to defend Franzen? Let's be honest here. Franzen is an easy scapegoat (how can you not be when your quotes are changed up purposefully to bring a more negative story?) when the entire team was flat, unprepared, and outmatched by a better opponent.

Robert Lang wasn't granted an 11-year contract. (that's good...)

Robert Lang didn't complain to the media every time he spoke to them about things being boring. (what self-respecting player would?)

He isn't complaining to the media here. He is pointing out a reasonable fact regarding the team. They were slow, unmotivated, and didn't seem to have much faith in themselves.

Also, Lang's last year with Detroit saw him not even score 20 goals. Yay.

Edited by Doc Holliday

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Franzen was a third liner who was just coming into the league in his first two years. Not sure why you mention those.

Why shouldn't his first two playoffs count? He was "just coming into the league" for two whole years?

In 07 Franzen got more TOI per game (16:47) in the postseason than he did the last two playoffs. It's not like he was a 4th liner playing six minutes a game.

Yes for some players there can be a learning curve. Others come into the league blazing right out of the gate. I don't see why that gives him a mulligan for the first two seasons. Datsyuk was pretty terrible for his first four playoffs, but it's become pretty clear since then that he's at or near a PPG player in the postseason.

Throw out Mule's first season if you want since then he actually was just coming into the league, but then he's still had three awesome postseasons and three very average ones for what he's paid.

Like I said, it remains to be seen if he's just had a couple down postseasons, or if the beast years were really the anomaly.

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I hope Franzen is traded this summer. Make room for one of our prospects that actually wants to play for as said, the greatest franchise in sports, or free up a spot to sign Prust to play on the 3rd line.

So you want to replace a 25-30 goals corer with a prospect or a third liner?

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Is it wrong that I have "Mules Just Want to Have Fun" (you know, rather than Girls Just Want to Have Fun) going through my head?

I see what he's saying. They haven't had an energized look to the team for a couple of years now. They look uninspired and dragged down.

For some reason, I can go to work and do the exact same thing day in and day out, but some days are so much better than others, and it has nothing to do with how the day at work actually went.

I noticed a drop-off after '09. The '09-10 season was one where they looked tired. The second-round elimination just added more water to the soggy towel.

Last summer, we went out again in the second round, and again to the Sharks. We weren't as physically tired from a long season, but after taking it to game 7 and losing to the same team, we were psychologically tired.

Then, before the season started this year, we lost McCrimmon, Salei, and Liv. How do you go through practices without thinking of your old coach when this happens? If a coach moves on, you chuckle or moan when things remind you of the old guy. If someone dies, their memory lingers in the smallest things.

Pavel lost a good friend in Salei, and any player with kids, especially young ones, had to feel for his wife. Liv was a countryman to many players on the team and had won gold with them for Sweden, both in the Olympics and the World, not to mention the players who played with him in GR.

Probably every team had someone who lost a close friend over the summer. Everyone lost a former co-worker. Everyone had to sit back and recognize that they would be flying to games all year, and they were just a plane crash away from having their families going through what the Yaroslavl families were going through.

But we had lost a coach, and I think that this is partly responsible for the lack of life and energy we have seen this season.

We've been unmotivated and, as a whole, depressed. They looked like they were going through the motions.

At some point in the grieving process, you have to learn to live again. You need to learn to have fun again. You need to learn that it is ok to go on. I think this is where Franzen is and where the team needs to be.

Edited by 55fan

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Why shouldn't his first two playoffs count? He was "just coming into the league" for two whole years?

Because you are talking about Franzen as a scorer and comparing him to a Franzen that was scouted, drafted, and developed a defensive forward in his first two years in the league, up until he was put into a scoring role due to injuries in early 2008.

In all honesty, I don't know why Babcock relieved him of his shorthanded duties once he saw Franzen had a scoring touch. Did his defensive abilities just disappear during the 2008 offseason?

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Because you are talking about Franzen as a scorer and comparing him to a Franzen that was scouted, drafted, and developed a defensive forward in his first two years in the league, up until he was put into a scoring role due to injuries in early 2008.

In all honesty, I don't know why Babcock relieved him of his shorthanded duties once he saw Franzen had a scoring touch. Did his defensive abilities just disappear during the 2008 offseason?

But that doesn't negate my point.

As you point out he was scouted, drafted and developed as a defensive forward, though they also hoped he could contribute somewhat offensively. Then he had a breakout goal-scoring year in 08, and had another great year in 09. That doesn't mean necessarily that he can or will keep that up. There's also the chance that he really is more of a defensive forward than someone to be relied upon as one of the big goal scorers on the team and that he won't match those totals again. With the contract the Wings gave him, obviously they're banking that he can.

Honestly I think he could, but not with the inconsistent effort he puts out.

As for the shorthanded duties I'm guessing it's just because the Wings had so many other players who could fulfill that role but didn't have an equal scoring touch to Mule's.

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looks like we have a new whipping boy. As happened with Hudler, I'm expecting a bounce-back season from Mule. Sure he looked un-motivated this year and did nothing in the playoffs but everybody can have a bad year. And before anybody says it, Franzen was playing hurt in last years playoffs. Go back and look at his numbers in playoffs prior to last year.

I'll give the man a pass.

By the way, you guys do realize that he lead the team in scoring goals this year don't you.

But don't let that fact get in the way of the whipping....

fixed...

...let us not forget about all those GWG's too...

I have had it! He was hurt, he is bored, he needs fun, excitement to change the team, his ass was chapped! I am tired of excuses with this guy...be gone!

Here is next years excuse:

"Well I was really lonely without my teammates and countrymen Lidstrom and Holmstrom out there. I think if we get more Swede's on this team, I will have more fun and be more excited..."

He got an 11-year contract with the greatest franchise in modern hockey after a single great playoff effort and hopefully unlocked potential, and the latter will define his career. Endless string of excuses as to why said potential is not being reached year-after-year, without mentioning the one obvious reason: zero effort and complete financial security. "Franchise" someone based 75% on potential and he'll start to think his potential is enough to win :P

Bingo Bango! Juck ******* Pott, right there!

Leading the team with 29 goals, averaging around 27 or so, playing on a line with an elite among elite centers, providing zero outside of scoring, while his scoring plateaus, and having an awful attitude that surfaces every time he talks to the media. First it was "wait until playoffs", now its "the regular season was good enough, I guess".

But don't let the trend dampen the next 8 years of his contract... :P

EDIT: Had to bolden the most important parts that some people aren't quite getting. Think there is a problem with effort and attitude in the locker room these days? Hmmm... can't think of why.

No, this one's the Juck ******* Pott!

Here's a good way to look at Franzen's production (his only defensible position left) in comparison to a Wings' fan favorite:

Robert Lang had 62 point in 72 games for the Wings. (a better season than any of Franzen's past... ever)

Robert Lang was LAZY and he SUCKED.

Robert Lang wasn't on the top line, getting all his minutes with a player the caliber of Datsyuk (ahem...)

Robert Lang was LAZY and he SUCKED.

Robert Lang wasn't granted an 11-year contract. (that's good...)

Robert Lang didn't complain to the media every time he spoke to them about things being boring. (what self-respecting player would?)

...Johan Franzen is LAZY and he SUCKS

Dude, seriously, I am running out of my allotted Juck ******* Pott's...

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Johan Franzen is a good complimentary goal scorer. He shouldn't be relied upon to carry the offensive load for any team. This year and last year he was expected to do that and he obviously can't be that guy. But with a 4 million cap hit and the numbers he puts up, I'm happy for him to be out there for forward scoring depth. Bring in Parise and Franzen gets less defensive pressure and the offense returns, it's really that simple. Anybody else notice that Franzen's career regular and post season's came when Hossa was drawing the tougher defensive assignments? Again, COMPLIMENTARY.

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Johan Franzen is a good complimentary goal scorer. He shouldn't be relied upon to carry the offensive load for any team. This year and last year he was expected to do that and he obviously can't be that guy. But with a 4 million cap hit and the numbers he puts up, I'm happy for him to be out there for forward scoring depth. Bring in Parise and Franzen gets less defensive pressure and the offense returns, it's really that simple. Anybody else notice that Franzen's career regular and post season's came when Hossa was drawing the tougher defensive assignments? Again, COMPLIMENTARY.

Seeing Franzen in the last few seasons, whether he is drawing the tougher defensive match-up or not thanks to being on a line with Datsyuk, its not like the guy is spending all his time checking and back-checking. In fact, I don't think I've seen him do so in a long time. He floats, offensive zone or defensive zone. He stops doing that and THEN his production, and really, his overall effectiveness will increase.

I agree, he would be great in a complimentary role. Unfortunately, the guy was signed to an 11-year contract expecting him to be closer to 40 goals than 25-30 while continuing to do the things that got him on the team in the first place. He has done neither. If he put in the effort, the expectations are more than reasonable. Even if you are somehow content with his play at $4m/season now, how will we feel about his play and attitude in 2 or 3 years at the same price? or 5 years? or 8?

The difference between Franzen and Hudler is this: Franzen is not limited by his skill-set, he's limited by his attitude. Hudler, for all his potential to float, does manage to reach the ceiling of his effectiveness given his lack of speed and size. Hudler is also signed as a complimentary player. Franzen is signed as a top scoring-winger, a big body to make his team better. Both players are signed to contracts appropriate for how they are CAPABLE of playing. Franzen, however, chooses to make excuses rather than do the job he is hired to do.

Complimentary players get 3-5 year contracts, not 11-year contracts. Complimentary players get paid $2.5-4mil/season, not the $5.25mil/season Franzen is getting paid at the moment.

Edited by b.shanafan14

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Does anyone recall him telling a reporter something to the effect of "Your questions are annoying, as usual"? This would've been roundabout the middle of the Preds series. Or am I just full-o-s***e?

No...I think it was an article...and someone said Franzen plays his best hockey when he's angry....

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Seeing Franzen in the last few seasons, whether he is drawing the tougher defensive match-up or not thanks to being on a line with Datsyuk, its not like the guy is spending all his time checking and back-checking. In fact, I don't think I've seen him do so in a long time. He floats, offensive zone or defensive zone. He stops doing that and THEN his production, and really, his overall effectiveness will increase.

I agree, he would be great in a complimentary role. Unfortunately, the guy was signed to an 11-year contract expecting him to be closer to 40 goals than 25-30 while continuing to do the things that got him on the team in the first place. He has done neither. If he put in the effort, the expectations are more than reasonable. Even if you are somehow content with his play at $4m/season now, how will we feel about his play and attitude in 2 or 3 years at the same price? or 5 years? or 8?

The difference between Franzen and Hudler is this: Franzen is not limited by his skill-set, he's limited by his attitude. Hudler, for all his potential to float, does manage to reach the ceiling of his effectiveness given his lack of speed and size. Hudler is also signed as a complimentary player. Franzen is signed as a top scoring-winger, a big body to make his team better. Both players are signed to contracts appropriate for how they are CAPABLE of playing. Franzen, however, chooses to make excuses rather than do the job he is hired to do.

Complimentary players get 3-5 year contracts, not 11-year contracts. Complimentary players get paid $2.5-4mil/season, not the $5.25mil/season Franzen is getting paid at the moment.

I agree with every single point you just made. He does float, he doesn't play much defense, his attitude is s***, and he's inconsistent. I'm positive that they signed him to that new contract expecting him to be a top flight goal scorer after his mid career success. He obviously isn't. My post was more a response to the people calling for him to be traded. I don't think they should trade him, but I don't think they should expect him to be "the guy" to carry the offensive load. He's proven he can't do it consistently. However, if they were to get a guy who could, and Franzen could assume the secondary role that he's made for, then we'd be in real good shape.

Additionally, I know that they expected a lot out of him based on his good years, but part of management's job is recognizing when guys fail to live up to what's expected of them and change their role accordingly. What I don't want to see is a situation in which they rely on him, year after year, and he fails to deliver. We can expect Justin Abdelkader to have a larger offensive role all day long but it's probably not going to happen, so decide whether or not his skill set makes it possible for him to be in a different role and get him there. Franzen should be a secondary scorer, not because he doesn't have more skill, but because at 31, if he hasn't figured out how to live up to expectations then he probably never will. But that doesn't mean he can't be useful to the team.

Edited by kipwinger

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cyndi-lauper3.jpeg

I come to the rink in the evening light,

Mike Babcock says "When you gonna skate your shifts right?"

Oh Mikey Dear

I'm not the hard working one,

And Mules,

They wanna have fu-un.

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have fun.

The phone rings in the middle of the night,

Nick Lidstrom yells "When you gonna learn to fight for your ice?"

Oh Nicklas dear

You know you're still number one,

But Mules,

They wanna have fu-un,

Oh, Mules, just wanna have

That's all they really want.....

Some fun....

When the hockey game is done,

Oh, Mules,

They wanna have fu-un,

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have fun....

Mules,

They want,

Wanna have fun.

Mules,

Wanna have

Some teams take a beautiful Mule,

And pay him more than rest of the world.

I wanna be the one to walk in the (Toronto) Sun.

Oh, Mules,

They wanna have fu-un.

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have

That's all they really want.....

Some fun....

When the hockey game is done,

Oh, Mules,

They wanna have fu-un.

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have fun...

Mules,

They want,

Wanna have fun.

Mules,

Wanna have.

They just wanna,

They just wanna.....

They just wanna,

(Oh....)

They just wanna.....

(Girls just wanna have fun...)

Oh...

Mules just wanna have fu-un...

They just wanna,

They just wanna....

They just wanna,

They just wanna....

(Oh...)

They just wanna...

(They just wanna have fun...)

Mules just wanna have fu-un...

When the hockey',

When the hockey game is done.

Oh, when the hockey game is done,

Oh, Mules...

Mules,

Just wanna have fu-un...

They just wanna,

They just wanna....

They just wanna,

They just wanna have fun...

Mules just wanna have fu-un..

They just wanna,

They just wanna....

They just wanna,

They just wanna....

(Have fun..)

They just wanna,

(Mules wanna have fun)

They just wanna....

Oh, Mules...

(Wanna have fun....)

Mules just wanna have fu-un.

They just wanna,

They just wanna....

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cyndi-lauper3.jpeg

I come to the rink in the evening light,

Mike Babcock says "When you gonna skate your shifts right?"

Oh Mikey Dear

I'm not the hard working one,

And Mules,

They wanna have fu-un.

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have fun.

The phone rings in the middle of the night,

Nick Lidstrom yells "When you gonna learn to fight for your ice?"

Oh Nicklas dear

You know you're still number one,

But Mules,

They wanna have fu-un,

Oh, Mules, just wanna have

That's all they really want.....

Some fun....

When the hockey game is done,

Oh, Mules,

They wanna have fu-un,

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have fun....

Mules,

They want,

Wanna have fun.

Mules,

Wanna have

Some teams take a beautiful Mule,

And pay him more than rest of the world.

I wanna be the one to walk in the (Toronto) Sun.

Oh, Mules,

They wanna have fu-un.

Oh, Mules,

Just wanna have

That's all they really want.....

Some fun....

Hahahaha shiiiiiiittt... that was a beaut! :clap:

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Seeing Franzen in the last few seasons, whether he is drawing the tougher defensive match-up or not thanks to being on a line with Datsyuk, its not like the guy is spending all his time checking and back-checking. In fact, I don't think I've seen him do so in a long time. He floats, offensive zone or defensive zone. He stops doing that and THEN his production, and really, his overall effectiveness will increase.

I agree, he would be great in a complimentary role. Unfortunately, the guy was signed to an 11-year contract expecting him to be closer to 40 goals than 25-30 while continuing to do the things that got him on the team in the first place. He has done neither.

40 goals for a $3.9 million cap hit?

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40 goals for a $3.9 million cap hit?

Closer to 40 than 25-30 is what I said. And no, closer to 40 than 25-30 for a guy getting paid $5.25 million/season, averaging $3.9 million over the length of 11 seasons. The point of a front loaded contract is to lessen the cap, but that doesn't mean he is expected to only perform his cap hit, otherwise what happens when he declines like he has already been trending to do? If he is worth $3.9 when he is making $5.25, what happens in 2-3 seasons? or 5? or 8?

The guy was essentially franchised. How long is the cap hit going to be excuse for not keeping up his part of the bargain and phoning it in? Honestly, if his scoring didn't improve a single point, but he checked, and skated, and WORKED consistently, folks would get off his back, but he doesn't. What kind of numbers do people think he would put up if Babcock finally demoted him for his laziness, and his ice time and linemates matched his effort? Hell, he finally got said demotion to the 4th line, in the 3rd period of the elimination game :angry:

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He isn't complaining to the media here. He is pointing out a reasonable fact regarding the team. They were slow, unmotivated, and didn't seem to have much faith in themselves.

So instead of pointing this out in the media after they were dropped in the 1st round why didn't he try to change this by his play on the ice?

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