106 replies to this topic

[Dabura]

Does anyone recall him telling a reporter something to the effect of "Your questions are annoying, as usual"? This would've been roundabout the middle of the Preds series. Or am I just full-o-s***e?

No...I think it was an article...and someone said Franzen plays his best hockey when he's angry....

[kipwinger]

Seeing Franzen in the last few seasons, whether he is drawing the tougher defensive match-up or not thanks to being on a line with Datsyuk, its not like the guy is spending all his time checking and back-checking. In fact, I don't think I've seen him do so in a long time. He floats, offensive zone or defensive zone. He stops doing that and THEN his production, and really, his overall effectiveness will increase.

I agree, he would be great in a complimentary role. Unfortunately, the guy was signed to an 11-year contract expecting him to be closer to 40 goals than 25-30 while continuing to do the things that got him on the team in the first place. He has done neither. If he put in the effort, the expectations are more than reasonable. Even if you are somehow content with his play at $4m/season now, how will we feel about his play and attitude in 2 or 3 years at the same price? or 5 years? or 8?

The difference between Franzen and Hudler is this: Franzen is not limited by his skill-set, he's limited by his attitude. Hudler, for all his potential to float, does manage to reach the ceiling of his effectiveness given his lack of speed and size. Hudler is also signed as a complimentary player. Franzen is signed as a top scoring-winger, a big body to make his team better. Both players are signed to contracts appropriate for how they are CAPABLE of playing. Franzen, however, chooses to make excuses rather than do the job he is hired to do.

Complimentary players get 3-5 year contracts, not 11-year contracts. Complimentary players get paid $2.5-4mil/season, not the $5.25mil/season Franzen is getting paid at the moment.

I agree with every single point you just made. He does float, he doesn't play much defense, his attitude is s***, and he's inconsistent. I'm positive that they signed him to that new contract expecting him to be a top flight goal scorer after his mid career success. He obviously isn't. My post was more a response to the people calling for him to be traded. I don't think they should trade him, but I don't think they should expect him to be "the guy" to carry the offensive load. He's proven he can't do it consistently. However, if they were to get a guy who could, and Franzen could assume the secondary role that he's made for, then we'd be in real good shape.

Additionally, I know that they expected a lot out of him based on his good years, but part of management's job is recognizing when guys fail to live up to what's expected of them and change their role accordingly. What I don't want to see is a situation in which they rely on him, year after year, and he fails to deliver. We can expect Justin Abdelkader to have a larger offensive role all day long but it's probably not going to happen, so decide whether or not his skill set makes it possible for him to be in a different role and get him there. Franzen should be a secondary scorer, not because he doesn't have more skill, but because at 31, if he hasn't figured out how to live up to expectations then he probably never will. But that doesn't mean he can't be useful to the team.

Edited by kipwinger, 27 April 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Jersey Wing]

I come to the rink in the evening light,
Mike Babcock says "When you gonna skate your shifts right?"
Oh Mikey Dear
I'm not the hard working one,

And Mules,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have fun.

The phone rings in the middle of the night,
Nick Lidstrom yells "When you gonna learn to fight for your ice?"
Oh Nicklas dear
You know you're still number one,

But Mules,
They wanna have fu-un,
Oh, Mules, just wanna have
That's all they really want.....
Some fun....

When the hockey game is done,
Oh, Mules,
They wanna have fu-un,
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have fun....

Mules,
They want,
Wanna have fun.
Mules,
Wanna have

Some teams take a beautiful Mule,
And pay him more than rest of the world.
I wanna be the one to walk in the (Toronto) Sun.

Oh, Mules,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have
That's all they really want.....
Some fun....

When the hockey game is done,
Oh, Mules,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have fun...

Mules,
They want,
Wanna have fun.
Mules,
Wanna have.

They just wanna,
They just wanna.....
They just wanna,
(Oh....)
They just wanna.....
(Girls just wanna have fun...)
Oh...

Mules just wanna have fu-un...
They just wanna,
They just wanna....
They just wanna,
They just wanna....
(Oh...)
They just wanna...
(They just wanna have fun...)
Mules just wanna have fu-un...

When the hockey',
When the hockey game is done.
Oh, when the hockey game is done,
Oh, Mules...
Mules,
Just wanna have fu-un...

They just wanna,
They just wanna....
They just wanna,
They just wanna have fun...

Mules just wanna have fu-un..
They just wanna,
They just wanna....
They just wanna,
They just wanna....
(Have fun..)

They just wanna,
(Mules wanna have fun)
They just wanna....
Oh, Mules...
(Wanna have fun....)
Mules just wanna have fu-un.


They just wanna,
They just wanna....

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

Can't say I'm surprised by the comments but mostly a little too late by Johan...

[b.shanafan14]

I come to the rink in the evening light,
Mike Babcock says "When you gonna skate your shifts right?"
Oh Mikey Dear
I'm not the hard working one,

And Mules,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have fun.

The phone rings in the middle of the night,
Nick Lidstrom yells "When you gonna learn to fight for your ice?"
Oh Nicklas dear
You know you're still number one,

But Mules,
They wanna have fu-un,
Oh, Mules, just wanna have
That's all they really want.....
Some fun....

When the hockey game is done,
Oh, Mules,
They wanna have fu-un,
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have fun....

Mules,
They want,
Wanna have fun.
Mules,
Wanna have

Some teams take a beautiful Mule,
And pay him more than rest of the world.
I wanna be the one to walk in the (Toronto) Sun.

Oh, Mules,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh, Mules,
Just wanna have
That's all they really want.....
Some fun....

Hahahaha shiiiiiiittt... that was a beaut!

[Doc Holliday]

Seeing Franzen in the last few seasons, whether he is drawing the tougher defensive match-up or not thanks to being on a line with Datsyuk, its not like the guy is spending all his time checking and back-checking. In fact, I don't think I've seen him do so in a long time. He floats, offensive zone or defensive zone. He stops doing that and THEN his production, and really, his overall effectiveness will increase.

I agree, he would be great in a complimentary role. Unfortunately, the guy was signed to an 11-year contract expecting him to be closer to 40 goals than 25-30 while continuing to do the things that got him on the team in the first place. He has done neither.

40 goals for a $3.9 million cap hit?

[b.shanafan14]

40 goals for a $3.9 million cap hit?

Closer to 40 than 25-30 is what I said. And no, closer to 40 than 25-30 for a guy getting paid $5.25 million/season, averaging $3.9 million over the length of 11 seasons. The point of a front loaded contract is to lessen the cap, but that doesn't mean he is expected to only perform his cap hit, otherwise what happens when he declines like he has already been trending to do? If he is worth $3.9 when he is making $5.25, what happens in 2-3 seasons? or 5? or 8?

The guy was essentially franchised. How long is the cap hit going to be excuse for not keeping up his part of the bargain and phoning it in? Honestly, if his scoring didn't improve a single point, but he checked, and skated, and WORKED consistently, folks would get off his back, but he doesn't. What kind of numbers do people think he would put up if Babcock finally demoted him for his laziness, and his ice time and linemates matched his effort? Hell, he finally got said demotion to the 4th line, in the 3rd period of the elimination game

[The Secret]

He isn't complaining to the media here. He is pointing out a reasonable fact regarding the team. They were slow, unmotivated, and didn't seem to have much faith in themselves.

So instead of pointing this out in the media after they were dropped in the 1st round why didn't he try to change this by his play on the ice?

[redwingfan19]

So instead of pointing this out in the media after they were dropped in the 1st round why didn't he try to change this by his play on the ice?

Because he is lazy.

[b.shanafan14]

Because he is lazy.

Or bored. Or not having enough fun.

[Doc Holliday]

So instead of pointing this out in the media after they were dropped in the 1st round why didn't he try to change this by his play on the ice?

Nobody other than three players on the Red Wings roster did. He was asked a question, and mentioned what he noticed of the team, himself included.

You guys make it seem like he went to the media and started to cite reasons why he specifically played poorly. He knows he didn't play up to par. Everyone knows that. The team played terrible. Everyone knows that.

People just want to read what they want to read and use it to knock down or prop up players they like or dislike. It's nothing new.

Closer to 40 than 25-30 is what I said. And no, closer to 40 than 25-30 for a guy getting paid $5.25 million/season, averaging $3.9 million over the length of 11 seasons. The point of a front loaded contract is to lessen the cap, but that doesn't mean he is expected to only perform his cap hit, otherwise what happens when he declines like he has already been trending to do? If he is worth $3.9 when he is making $5.25, what happens in 2-3 seasons? or 5? or 8?

Franzen isn't exactly a burden on our cap (in fact we may have an extra couple million or so that could sign a Parise or Suter this offseason based on the cap decrease), so I'm not sure why people are getting grumpy. Nothing stopped Detroit from signing a dynamic scorer other than the market last year.

The guy was essentially franchised. How long is the cap hit going to be excuse for not keeping up his part of the bargain and phoning it in? Honestly, if his scoring didn't improve a single point, but he checked, and skated, and WORKED consistently, folks would get off his back, but he doesn't. What kind of numbers do people think he would put up if Babcock finally demoted him for his laziness, and his ice time and linemates matched his effort? Hell, he finally got said demotion to the 4th line, in the 3rd period of the elimination game

Do you think any of his less skilled linemates could match his numbers with the increased defensive pressure and ice time? I understand the desire to put Nyquist up there but there is a difference between being slotted into the first line for a temporary period and doing it consistently over an 82 game season.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 27 April 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[Buppy]

...Honestly, if his scoring didn't improve a single point, but he checked, and skated, and WORKED consistently, the team won, folks would get off his back, but he doesn't they didn't, so now people need a scapegoat. ...

FIFY

[Dabura]

Defenders of Franzen,

We appreciate what you're doing, sticking up for a Red Wing and all.

But Franzen is lazy.

And he sucks.

[Nev]

What I find interesting is comparing Franzens comments to Babcocks.

Babs said in the Nashville series that Franzen needs to move his feet and use his body to be effective, and said "we talk about that. A lot." When asked about his lack of production in the series he responds angrily with "ask him"

Meanwhile Franzen says we have the players to win, but that he's bored and wants to have "more fun", leaving me wondering if this is a dig at Babcock being on his case all the time.

Whatever, I just want his lazy, floating ass and his terrible attitude out of here as I've already said not least to send a message to the rest of the team - phoning it in and relying on Datsyuk to do all your work will NOT be tolerated.

[Kindl Surprise]

We need Paul Maclean back. Seems like those guys are having a blast over in Ottawa.

[plopster]

What I find interesting is comparing Franzens comments to Babcocks.

Babs said in the Nashville series that Franzen needs to move his feet and use his body to be effective, and said "we talk about that. A lot." When asked about his lack of production in the series he responds angrily with "ask him"

Meanwhile Franzen says we have the players to win, but that he's bored and wants to have "more fun", leaving me wondering if this is a dig at Babcock being on his case all the time.

Whatever, I just want his lazy, floating ass and his terrible attitude out of here as I've already said not least to send a message to the rest of the team - phoning it in and relying on Datsyuk to do all your work will NOT be tolerated.

What article was that in with Babs saying that?

And if Franzen is taking a dig at the coaching style, what does he think the style is with ken Hitchcock behind the Blues bench? Can't say I have ever seen that guy smile. They seem to be doing fine. He just needs to step up the work ethic and stop waiting for someone else to do the work. Don't be surprised to see his ass on the third line next year if he still dons the winged wheel.

[LeftWinger]

...Honestly, if his scoring didn't improve a single point, but he checked, and skated, and WORKED consistently, the team won, folks would get off his back, but he doesn't they didn't, so now people need a scapegoat. ...

FIFY

I know you are trying to defend Franzen, but do you honestly believe what you turned his post into?

Because if you do, then let me remind you of something. Wings were pretty much ONE goalpost away from a back to back Stanley Cup win in 2009. I'd say they did pretty damn good that playoff....yet, to this day, hardly NOBODY forgives Hossa for not scoring 50 goals in the playoffs...despite having 6 goals amongst 15 points (only 8 behind Franzen that playoff BTW)

Man I wish Holland had chosen Hossa over Franzen that off season.....oh well. Now noone will take his God awful contract and in 3-4 years when he his only scoring 15-20 points per season, the only way out will be to buy him out...

[b.shanafan14]

What I find interesting is comparing Franzens comments to Babcocks.

Babs said in the Nashville series that Franzen needs to move his feet and use his body to be effective, and said "we talk about that. A lot." When asked about his lack of production in the series he responds angrily with "ask him"

Meanwhile Franzen says we have the players to win, but that he's bored and wants to have "more fun", leaving me wondering if this is a dig at Babcock being on his case all the time.

Whatever, I just want his lazy, floating ass and his terrible attitude out of here as I've already said not least to send a message to the rest of the team - phoning it in and relying on Datsyuk to do all your work will NOT be tolerated.

You gotta think Babcock has been handcuffed by Franzen's contract. Franzen was called out a few times this year by the coach, and that post-elimination presser was a prime example ("ask him"). However, the guy is signed for the next 8 years, and it was very high-profile when they did it (cap circumvention discussion). If Franzen gets the long-term demotion that he has earned, now we have a guy earning $5.25mil on a franchise contract playing on the 3rd or 4th line. Huge lightning rod for the organization and guaranteed Kenny loses face, not to mention killing any chance of moving him now or in the coming seasons. So instead, Franzen is publicly handled with kid gloves, and his demotions are short, meant as a "shot across the bow", but really having no effect.

Its out of Babcock's hands, but he sent a pretty clear message when he dropped Mr. Playoffs to the 4th line in the 3rd period of what would be the Wings last game.

[esteef]

I grow tired of these athletes who get to play a game for a living, are millionaires by age 30, and still need someone to motivate them to show up for work and try. How about yank that contract and send his ass to the minors. Let's see how much f***in' "fun" he has then.

esteef

[Nev]

What article was that in with Babs saying that?

The moving his feet bit was around game 2 or 3. The "ask him" retort was the post game presser after we were eliminated.