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#41 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:31 PM

The problem lies 2-3 years from now when we're gonna be REALLY old and still not have any great prospects.


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Holy s***-- this guy can see into the future to reveal the results of the next 2-3 drafts.
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#42 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:26 PM

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Holy s***-- this guy can see into the future to reveal the results of the next 2-3 drafts.


Didn't you hear? The Minnesota Wild have an organization chock full of blue chip prospects while the Detroit Red Wings have the worst. Cougar did his homework so it must be true! It's a fact!
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#43 Richdg

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:30 PM

Smith and Nyquist pretty much already made the team. Sheahan and Andersson are nearly there. Jarnkrok, Tatar, and Jurco are expected to be part of the team in the next few years. And Ouellet and Marchenko are being called huge steals like Datsyuk was. Thats about 9 guys who you can put your money on to make it in the next 1 to 4 seasons. Then you have our other 20+ prospects...and lets says worst comes to worst and only 3 of them make it. Now you have about 10 or 11 guys makin it. But lets also not forget that over the next 4 seasons, while our current prospects are fighting for roster spots, we will also draft another 30 to 36 prospects. Lets say only 3 of those guys make it in that 4 year time span. Now you have around 14 guys makin it in the next 4 seasons.....but lets assume everything goes terribly wrong cause we draft horribly (which we dont) and my figure of 14 is cut in half....that means 7 guys. thats still 1 man more than an entire defensive squad, and 1 man more than half a forward squad. Still not satisfied? Lets also not forget those 1st round picks we dont need....we can trade those away for whatever young players on other teams you envy so much and use them to fill holes. And dont forget free agency! The Hossa's (Parise) and Rafalski's (Suter) of the world need somewhere to go. And FA's love us because we DONT trade away guys like Nick, PAV, or Z, just because they are EXPIERENCED. And even if we don't get Parise or Suter we'd probablly get some more Ian White kind of guys and turn them into a top notch players like we always do..............or then again we could just blow the team up and trade away the 2 best 2-way forwards in the league to get someone who doesnt play nearly as good defense and costs probablly a million or two more than Pav and Z do. And in the process ruin our reputation as a franchise that sticks by our guys, and less FA's will want to play here.

Bottom line is if you think anyone on this team is too old (besides Homer) and that being old is a problem, your crazy (see: Nick Lidstrom, Brendan Shanahan, Chris Chelios, Domink Hasek, ect.). Veterans provide a world of leadership to the team, help develop our up and coming prospects, and are just plain smarter and more experienced than other players out there. Our family style has created a culture of winning. Panicking and blowing up the team is not only short-sighted but completely moronic and against everything our franchise has worked to cultivate. Remember 2006? We went out in the first round just like this year and people panicked and said blow the team up. Luckily Hollands cooler head prevailed and he didn't do something stupid....2 years later we won the cup. This is not a 1 and done team like Chicago....people like you are only thinking about the the present while Holland is 5 steps ahead of you. Hes got plans for 2016 already I'm sure. He's like Lidstrom, he makes very few mistakes....and theres a reason he sticks by our guys. Love my wings.


I will take that bet. Of all the young guys ypu have mentioned, fwer than 2 will ever turn out to be stars.

#44 FlashyG

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

I will take that bet. Of all the young guys ypu have mentioned, fwer than 2 will ever turn out to be stars.


Way to go out on a limb there.

He said they'd make it not become Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

#45 Richdg

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:39 PM

Way to go out on a limb there.

He said they'd make it not become Datsyuk or Zetterberg.



Think about what you just said. make it but not stars. We are losing stars. If we are not going to have stars to replace them with............ But he also made a strong indication that 2 of the guys are supposed to be steals on the scale of Datsyk. So yes he did talk about guys becoming stars.

#46 Richdg

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:51 PM

Ok back to this off season and some names. What happens if everyone favorites are gone? if they don't come here? Parise and Suter have signed some place else? There are other names out there that can and will help. We still need to add grit up front. I have mentioned Jones before. if we are going for one last hurrah, Doan could make sense. But there are a few others. if we want a real gritty forward that also scores, look at P A Parenteu from the Isles. Think Kirk maltby but with better offense. If true toughness is the goal/need a guy like McLeod of Col. is about as tough as they get.

On the blue line there are several others besides Suter. I mentioned Carle before. 2 others to look at are Wideman of the caps-would add a 2nd RH shot to our blueline, and garrison of the Panthers. IIRC he lead all D with goals scored. very good shooter and has good size/mobility.

#47 FlashyG

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:28 AM

Think about what you just said. make it but not stars. We are losing stars. If we are not going to have stars to replace them with............ But he also made a strong indication that 2 of the guys are supposed to be steals on the scale of Datsyk. So yes he did talk about guys becoming stars.



He said there were 9 guys you could put your money on to "make it" in the next 1 to 4 years. You said you'd take that bet and changed it to "fewer than 2" of those 9 guys would be stars. I highly doubt he expected all 9 prospects to turn into NHL stars.

Lidstrom is the only star that needs to be replaced, in 1 to 4 years Datsyuk and Zetterberg will likely still be playing . They may not be as big of stars then but not every team has that kind of talent anyways. If 9 of our current prospects are on our roster and 1 turns into a star player we will be in even better shape than we are right now.

As far as FA's after Suter and Parise, I like the idea of a RH defenceman if Lidstrom doesn't come back, otherwise I'm not sure there is a roster spot for one. Upfront I think we need a goal scorer who can play with Datsyuk, I don't care if he's gritty, as long as he can score. We could use a little bit of grit on the 4th line but again roster space may be an issue if Hudler is re-signed. Lastly we need a back-up goalie better than Conklin, especially with MacDonald having back issues.

#48 Richdg

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:58 AM

He said there were 9 guys you could put your money on to "make it" in the next 1 to 4 years. You said you'd take that bet and changed it to "fewer than 2" of those 9 guys would be stars. I highly doubt he expected all 9 prospects to turn into NHL stars.

Lidstrom is the only star that needs to be replaced, in 1 to 4 years Datsyuk and Zetterberg will likely still be playing . They may not be as big of stars then but not every team has that kind of talent anyways. If 9 of our current prospects are on our roster and 1 turns into a star player we will be in even better shape than we are right now.

As far as FA's after Suter and Parise, I like the idea of a RH defenceman if Lidstrom doesn't come back, otherwise I'm not sure there is a roster spot for one. Upfront I think we need a goal scorer who can play with Datsyuk, I don't care if he's gritty, as long as he can score. We could use a little bit of grit on the 4th line but again roster space may be an issue if Hudler is re-signed. Lastly we need a back-up goalie better than Conklin, especially with MacDonald having back issues.



Trying to predict what will happen with datsyk in 2 or 3 years is tough to do. Other than the fact he will be 36 and a UFA. if his numbers continue to slide....who knows. Adding a scorer doesn't solve our problems. We have scorers. But in the playoffs, without space to work, they didn't score. It wasn't like we were unhealthy. This year was the first year in several that we entered the playoffs healthy-in a very general sense. But no one scored. Also our 3rd/4th lines are about set. we have a bunch of guys that can and will play there. It isour top2 lines where the issues lay.

#49 evilzyme

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:08 AM

He said there were 9 guys you could put your money on to "make it" in the next 1 to 4 years. You said you'd take that bet and changed it to "fewer than 2" of those 9 guys would be stars. I highly doubt he expected all 9 prospects to turn into NHL stars.

Lidstrom is the only star that needs to be replaced, in 1 to 4 years Datsyuk and Zetterberg will likely still be playing . They may not be as big of stars then but not every team has that kind of talent anyways. If 9 of our current prospects are on our roster and 1 turns into a star player we will be in even better shape than we are right now.

As far as FA's after Suter and Parise, I like the idea of a RH defenceman if Lidstrom doesn't come back, otherwise I'm not sure there is a roster spot for one. Upfront I think we need a goal scorer who can play with Datsyuk, I don't care if he's gritty, as long as he can score. We could use a little bit of grit on the 4th line but again roster space may be an issue if Hudler is re-signed. Lastly we need a back-up goalie better than Conklin, especially with MacDonald having back issues.


Babcock did strive to say that he was looking to pick up a RH defensemen when they were looking into another D. They would like the RH for the breakouts and transition, which is one of our hold ups, the transition through the neutral zone.

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#50 Richdg

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:21 AM

Babcock did strive to say that he was looking to pick up a RH defensemen when they were looking into another D. They would like the RH for the breakouts and transition, which is one of our hold ups, the transition through the neutral zone.



Yes. that is why i mentioned Wideman. he is 29 and a UFA. If we are only taking 1 FA Dman, he is actually a better fit for us. Having 2 RH shooters on the blueline gives us 2 very nice pairs on the PP. If Nicky hangs them up, then sign another one out of the Suter, Carle, and garrison group. Now you would have the pairs of: Kronwall and white (LH and RH), Wideman and Nicky/Suter/Carle/Garrison (Rh and LH), Smith or Quincy and Erickson (all LH) and Kindl as the 7th. Or some version of this. if Nicky retires, then all of the D are 31 and under in age. That would be a group we could keep together for the next 4-6 years. Solves the blueline long term.

#51 Dabura

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:22 AM

You'd take Wideman over Suter, straight up?

Don't Toews me, bro!


#52 mmamolo

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

Trying to predict what will happen with datsyk in 2 or 3 years is tough to do. Other than the fact he will be 36 and a UFA. if his numbers continue to slide....who knows. Adding a scorer doesn't solve our problems. We have scorers. But in the playoffs, without space to work, they didn't score. It wasn't like we were unhealthy. This year was the first year in several that we entered the playoffs healthy-in a very general sense. But no one scored. Also our 3rd/4th lines are about set. we have a bunch of guys that can and will play there. It isour top2 lines where the issues lay.


Although I don't agree with a lot of what you have said in this thread I do like the possibilities of Carle and Wideman. I have also long thought Jones would be a great pick up. Personally, I would like to say Jones brought in while letting Hudler move on.
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#53 FlashyG

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

You'd take Wideman over Suter, straight up?


I probably would too depending on salary.
We need a RH shot badly on the back end. Suter, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Ericsson and Quincey all prefer to play on the same side of the ice.

Wideman and Suter put up the exact same amount of pts this year, but Wideman scored more goals, plays the side of the ice we want and will likely sign for less money.

#54 Dabura

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:37 PM

I've no problem with Wideman or with us signing him - and in fact, I think we're more likely to land Parise+Wideman than we are Parise+Suter, one of the key reasons being the handedness issue.

But Suter is more solid overall, IMO.

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#55 FlashyG

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:46 PM

But Suter is more solid overall, IMO.


I agree, when you compare the 2 against one another its hard to consider Wideman the better player overall.

I think he fits the Red Wings better than Suter though, and I think we're more likely to sign him especially considering Suter probably doesn't want to face his former team as many times as he would with the Wings.






#56 number9

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 03:56 PM

Trying to predict what will happen with datsyk in 2 or 3 years is tough to do. Other than the fact he will be 36 and a UFA. if his numbers continue to slide....who knows. Adding a scorer doesn't solve our problems. We have scorers. But in the playoffs, without space to work, they didn't score. It wasn't like we were unhealthy. This year was the first year in several that we entered the playoffs healthy-in a very general sense. But no one scored. Also our 3rd/4th lines are about set. we have a bunch of guys that can and will play there. It isour top2 lines where the issues lay.


At 36 Pasha will still be better than 90% of the league. We have scorers? The only pure shooter on this team is Hudler....and were talkin about lettin him walk lol. We could definitely use a pure sniper (better than Huds) on this team for Nick and Pavs and Z to dish to.

We also were not healthy. Helm and Eaves, our top 2 penalty killers, were out. And Cleary was at 50%.....

Our bottom 6 is not set lol. And our top 6 is more than set lol. Just cause we have plenty of guys that can play in the bottom 6 doesn't mean it's a good bottom 6. A good bottom 6 has checking lines or a 3rd scoring line. We do not have a 3rd scoring line and we do not have a checking line.

Needs: Scorer, Grit toughness and size in the bottom 6, a replacement for Stewie, and a decent backup goaltender

And no I did not say any of our prospects would be stars (though some will likely be pretty f'in good lol), steals and stars are 2 different words :)
7 draft picks out of 60+ making the team in the next 4 seasons is very likely sir. I'd say 7 is a very conservative estimate as well.


#57 Richdg

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 04:45 PM

I probably would too depending on salary.
We need a RH shot badly on the back end. Suter, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Ericsson and Quincey all prefer to play on the same side of the ice.

Wideman and Suter put up the exact same amount of pts this year, but Wideman scored more goals, plays the side of the ice we want and will likely sign for less money.



But it isn't a strainght up question. Suter and Widmen have very similier numbers. Suter gets more pub becasue he is an american and is the son of a HOF. But if the question becomes do I sign wideman for5 million per year or Suter for 7.5 million per year, I take Wideman every time. Allows meto speed in other places and make the team deeper and better overall.

At 36 Pasha will still be better than 90% of the league. We have scorers? The only pure shooter on this team is Hudler....and were talkin about lettin him walk lol. We could definitely use a pure sniper (better than Huds) on this team for Nick and Pavs and Z to dish to.

We also were not healthy. Helm and Eaves, our top 2 penalty killers, were out. And Cleary was at 50%.....

Our bottom 6 is not set lol. And our top 6 is more than set lol. Just cause we have plenty of guys that can play in the bottom 6 doesn't mean it's a good bottom 6. A good bottom 6 has checking lines or a 3rd scoring line. We do not have a 3rd scoring line and we do not have a checking line.

Needs: Scorer, Grit toughness and size in the bottom 6, a replacement for Stewie, and a decent backup goaltender

And no I did not say any of our prospects would be stars (though some will likely be pretty f'in good lol), steals and stars are 2 different words :)
7 draft picks out of 60+ making the team in the next 4 seasons is very likely sir. I'd say 7 is a very conservative estimate as well.


This was the first timein years that Datsyk, Z and franzen were all healthy going intothe playoffs. yes helm was out. But D wasn't our problem. Scoring was. How does the 3rd line checking center being out hurt Z, datsyk, and Franzen? It didn't. All of which are permier scorers. 30+ goal per season guys. They didn't score, becassue they didn't have room. room is created by a big forward on their lines opening space for them. That is what didn't happen,and why we lost to a worse team in 5 games. But enough with the past. time to look towards 2012/2013.

#58 FlashyG

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 05:10 PM

But it isn't a strainght up question. Suter and Widmen have very similier numbers. Suter gets more pub becasue he is an american and is the son of a HOF. But if the question becomes do I sign wideman for5 million per year or Suter for 7.5 million per year, I take Wideman every time. Allows meto speed in other places and make the team deeper and better overall.



Easy there...I was actually agreeing with you.


This was the first timein years that Datsyk, Z and franzen were all healthy going intothe playoffs. yes helm was out. But D wasn't our problem. Scoring was. How does the 3rd line checking center being out hurt Z, datsyk, and Franzen? It didn't. All of which are permier scorers. 30+ goal per season guys. They didn't score, becassue they didn't have room. room is created by a big forward on their lines opening space for them. That is what didn't happen,and why we lost to a worse team in 5 games. But enough with the past. time to look towards 2012/2013.



Datsyuk....I know its a small issue, but he is our best forward, is it too much to ask to spell his name right.

As far as the playoff series goes, our top lines weren't the problem. We scored 9 goals total , 6 of them came from the top 6 , 2 came from the bottom 6 and 1 from the defence. Our 3rd line was -5 and provided no goals at all. With Helm in the line-up our 3rd and 4th lines get better, with Eaves in the lineup as well we don't need to use Datsyuk or Zetterberg as penalty killers and they are fresh to score more at even strength.

Don't underestimate the value of depth.



#59 number9

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 05:32 PM

But it isn't a strainght up question. Suter and Widmen have very similier numbers. Suter gets more pub becasue he is an american and is the son of a HOF. But if the question becomes do I sign wideman for5 million per year or Suter for 7.5 million per year, I take Wideman every time. Allows meto speed in other places and make the team deeper and better overall.



This was the first timein years that Datsyk, Z and franzen were all healthy going intothe playoffs. yes helm was out. But D wasn't our problem. Scoring was. How does the 3rd line checking center being out hurt Z, datsyk, and Franzen? It didn't. All of which are permier scorers. 30+ goal per season guys. They didn't score, becassue they didn't have room. room is created by a big forward on their lines opening space for them. That is what didn't happen,and why we lost to a worse team in 5 games. But enough with the past. time to look towards 2012/2013.


Suter does not get more pub because of his nationality or father LOL. He is a better player...plain and simple...especially on D. Do you even watch hockey? Its not all about numbers guy.

Hmmmmm how on earth would 2 penalty killers and another defensive forward being at 50% hurt Dats and Z?.... Who do you think is going to kill penalties while those guys can't? Babcock literally said during the playoffs "I hate having Helmer and Eaves out because that means I have to use Hank and Pavel for defensive assignments when I'd rather have them focused on offense." paraphrased of course.

#60 Dabura

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 05:53 PM

But enough with the past. time to look towards 2012/2013.


We need to learn from the past, otherwise it's all meaningless. We have to look to the future through the lens of past experience. Having said that - we lost this year (and have lost in recent years) for a collection of reasons. So, e.g., both our top 6 and bottom 6 are, as they currently stand, problematic - and, yes, the two are interrelated, as are all the reasons for our postseasons woes (Helm being out, for example, DOES have an impact on the top 6 and those guys' success - or lack thereof - on the scoreboard).

Don't Toews me, bro!






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