LeftWinger 4,936 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 Let's start by saying, I, just like most of you, would LOVE to see Lidstrom come back for another season, as long as he is 100% healthy and 100% still in love with this sport and this town and has the heart and desire to seriously put up with another pre-season, 82 game regular and playoffs. If he is ready, it will be great to see him back, BUT... ...he cannot be paid his normal salary. In all the "Off Season" threads, there are a lot of folks bickering about "offering" him only $3M and most people say that an offer like that would be an insult to Nick. I agree to an extent, if indeed it is an offer. Plus, Ken Holland would probably never "offer" him anything. So the question isn't what will Ken Holland offer him, it is what does Lidstrom want. I believe that Nick knows that he isn't the same as he was 10 years ago, he is only going to be around one or maybe two more years. I believe if he does come back, that he no doubt wants to have a serious shot at the Cup on last time AND I do believe he'd like to leave this team in a great position to continue it's domination over the league that he has enjoyed the last 20 years. For that to happen, Nick needs to seriously get with Kenny, talk about what this team needs in order to secure the future for the next 5-10 years and THEN and ONLY THEN should they talk about what Nick will make this year. Nick should tell Holland (yes or no) that he is coming back, BUT Holland can do everything in his power to secure the future of this team by getting 2-4 GREAT players signed so when he does retire, this organization isn't going back to the pre-Yzerman era... Only Holland knows which UFA's he wants to target, and usually that is players that are complete opposite of what we as fans would "like to see." For the sake of this thread I will use the names that everyone has pretty much been using thus far this offseason, Suter and Parise... Nick and Kenny need to get together, agree that the first and foremost needs are Suter & Parise, so here is what I think the sequence should be something like this: Sign Suter to "whatever it takes" contract... Sign Parise to "whatever it takes" contract... Re-sign Helm & Abdelkader Either re-sign Quincey to no more than $3M or just have Smith on the roster permantly... Sign a UFA Goalie to REALLY challenge Jimmy and push him to the next level. (Jimmy needs this to make that next step. Joey and Ty just aren't good enough to Challenge him) I suggest Vokoun, but thats just my opinion... Once these are done, the future (Suter, Parise, Helm, Abdelkader) are all secured for at least the next 5 years. (of course, along with the already signed kids from GR.) Then, whatever Cap space is left (hopefully it goes up like experts are projecting) THEN Nick sits down with Holland and if he wants one more shot at the Cup and be a bridge between the Wings of the last 20 years and the Wings of the next 20 years, he needs to sign for what Holland can now afford to sign him to. If Holland can do some magic, there may be about $4M left over, not sure, but this won't be an insulting offer to Nick, considering that if Nick wants this team to win and continue to win after he retires, he needs to let Holland secure the future BEFORE giving Nick a contract. All this relies on Nick though. Holland isn't going to offer him anything, he is going to give Nick what he wants, I just hope Nick wants to give the fans what they want and that is Suter and Parise and then their beloved Captain for one more shot! In that order please... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilzyme 769 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) All i'm saying is, we keep throwing out Suter and Parise like it's the only two people we should be pursuing. Parise is currently on a very good NJ Devils team that is about to go to the Eastern Conference Finals, i'm not sure how big that window is anymore that he was sliding out. Suter? Hell, his team just destroyed the "potential" team he wanted to sign if the management didn't show they were serious about a cup run. But, his management DID show that they were serious about a cup run, they were heavy at the trade deadline, they pushed for Radulov to come back for the post season. The management is showing they want to keep him, ontop that we aren't the only contender for either of these guys. *edit* with signing a backup, hell we need one, but we also don't want to break the bank while doing so. Tendies will up this offseason, but with a bunch of times striving to get their hands on them. It will be harder to find a valuable backup goaltender. Joey Mac would fit the suit, but with his health I wouldn't feel like he would be ready to take a workload off of Jimmy. Edited May 7, 2012 by evilzyme 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 So, whats the number you have in mind? IMHO, Lidstrom should ask for a salary that is based on his performance from last season. He made 6.2 million last season. I would be ok with paying him $5-$5.5. He has earned that just based on his performance and dedication to the Wings for so many years. As for Parise and Suter, the Wings will get them both if they are concerned about winning. If they are concerned with their paychecks, then the Wings won't sign them. I would rather have people here who take a discount (like everyone on the team does) rather than those who are just looking for the most money. 1 FlashyG reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) All i'm saying is, we keep throwing out Suter and Parise like it's the only two people we should be pursuing. Parise is currently on a very good NJ Devils team that is about to go to the Eastern Conference Finals, i'm not sure how big that window is anymore that he was sliding out. Suter? Hell, his team just destroyed the "potential" team he wanted to sign if the management didn't show they were serious about a cup run. But, his management DID show that they were serious about a cup run, they were heavy at the trade deadline, they pushed for Radulov to come back for the post season. The management is showing they want to keep him, ontop that we aren't the only contender for either of these guys. *edit* with signing a backup, hell we need one, but we also don't want to break the bank while doing so. Tendies will up this offseason, but with a bunch of times striving to get their hands on them. It will be harder to find a valuable backup goaltender. Joey Mac would fit the suit, but with his health I wouldn't feel like he would be ready to take a workload off of Jimmy. The Devils are bankrupt and may not have the necessary dough to sign Parise, and the Predators are a financial mess and just dumped a huge contract on Rinne. The Predators upped the ante this season for the precise reason that they want to keep Suter and Weber around. A deep run in the playoffs was very important for them. Unfortunately for them, they're one game away from elimination in the 2nd round, and they can't break the bank every season like they have in this one. If they want Suter and Weber to stay, both of them need to take very reasonable contracts. Edited May 7, 2012 by Crymson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xtrememachine1 795 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 Plus, Ken Holland would probably never "offer" him anything. So the question isn't what will Ken Holland offer him, it is what does Lidstrom want. Yeah and I don't think Nick's going to beat up his 42 year old body to play for way less than what he has been making. Lidstrom says $5 mil, Kenny has to pay it. He's can't refuse that offer and let him walk/retire. I believe that Nick knows that he isn't the same as he was 10 years ago, he is only going to be around one or maybe two more years. I believe if he does come back, that he no doubt wants to have a serious shot at the Cup on last time AND I do believe he'd like to leave this team in a great position to continue it's domination over the league that he has enjoyed the last 20 years. For that to happen, Nick needs to seriously get with Kenny, talk about what this team needs in order to secure the future for the next 5-10 years and THEN and ONLY THEN should they talk about what Nick will make this year. In fairness to Nick, he DID win the Norris two years ago. His numbers were down this year, but so were everyone else's numbers. He's not the player he was 10 years ago, but he's still one of the elite. The only reason he'll come back is for a final run at a championship, but at the same time, he's not going to screw himself out of money. They have plenty of cap space and the caps going up, I don't see Nick taking a big pay cut. this organization isn't going back to the pre-Yzerman era... Way too many factors to prevent this from happening from the ownership down through our prospects. Sign Suter to "whatever it takes" contract... Sign Parise to "whatever it takes" contract... I'd love to have both of these guys, however the teams problem, according to Babcock at least, is depth. Spending more than $14 mil on just two players won't fix the depth problem and it'll make things tough down the line especially if they're long term deals. Plus, their's always injury potential. Anyone remember Derian Hatcher? Imagine if that was during the salary cap era. Parise missed almost all of last year with a knee injury. Not saying he's injury prone, but another knee injury isn't out of the realm of possibility here. Sign a UFA Goalie to REALLY challenge Jimmy and push him to the next level. (Jimmy needs this to make that next step. Joey and Ty just aren't good enough to Challenge him) I suggest Vokoun, but thats just my opinion... I've been saying this for a couple years now, we NEED a backup goalie. Not Joey MacDonald. Sure he did fine this year, but I don't want us in that situation. Howie's been injured in each of the last two years and hasn't played in more than 63 games in a season. If Lidstrom's trying to make one final run for a Cup, we can't be risking it all on Howard's health because let's face it, we're not winning it with J-Mac. I don't think we need a backup to push Jimmy, we need one to keep the season relevant if he gets injured. All this relies on Nick though. Holland isn't going to offer him anything, he is going to give Nick what he wants, I just hope Nick wants to give the fans what they want and that is Suter and Parise and then their beloved Captain for one more shot! In that order please... Yes and last year the fans here wanted Brad Richards, James Wisniewski and Christian Erhoff. The year before that everyone wanted us to sign Kovalchuk to a Franzen type deal. The fans of every team want all the best UFA's out there every summer. Not signing Parise and Suter this summer won't be the end of the world. Quite frankly I'd be surprised to see both of them sign here. How often do you see the biggest names in free agency sign with the same team in any sport? It happens, but not that much and its pretty surprising when it does happen. So I'm not exactly sold on the whole idea of "sign them both or we're screwed". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 Agreed with OP, and Smith over Quincey please and thank you. Smith is a huge part of the Wings future on D and offence from Dmen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 Nick will make what he wants to make. And that won't be 3 million - unless Holland has some crazy Dream Team s*** up his sleeve. Parise and Suter are essential - but, realistically, we're not getting both. Indeed, we'll be lucky to get just one. Which is ok. There are other options. Besides, the Wings need depth. Even if Holland did somehow manage to ink them both, we'd still need to make at least one significant, substantial signing. And we do need a backup goalie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,936 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 I agree with all of you, and I just used Parise and Suter for the sake of the thread subject as that is who most folks would like to see here. I know they aren't the only options, but they are two of the best options. Also, I am not saying Nick MUST take $3M, I already said, Holland won't "offer" him anything, Nick will say I want this and he will get it. The point of my topic was I hope that Nick would tell Holland, "get the guys here that are going to take this team over when I leave and help to keep them at the level that is expected of the Detroit Red Wings...pay what it takes to get those players here and then we'll talk about my pay." Nick knows what they need, he knows just reusing the players from last season isn't going to get them even a sniff of the Cup, let alone win it. He knows they need a high scoring sniper and a legit #1 defenseman. He knows they have to re-sign their future in Helm and Abby. He knows Nyquist and Smith are going to be staples on this team from here on out. If we all know it, then he is well aware of it. I mentioned a REAL goalie to push Jimmy. I mean that he needs to know that if he falters that someone is there who could possibly take his job. Not that his job is in jeopardy, but it will keep him on his game 100% of the time. Also, like mentioned above, it gives the team and the fans no worries about the duo itself if something would happen to Jimmy or when he needs nights off. I mention Vokoun. He wanted to be in Detroit last off season, but opted for Washington for a starting spot. Well, he kinda lost that there. He wouldn't have a starting spot here, but maybe his stance would have changed about being adamant about a starting spot. If not, then fine, but I would think he'd like to go somewhere to hav a great shot at winning a Cup. Especially if Holland spends his cash correctly and the UFA's take notice that Detroit is serious about getting back to the final's and winning...Getting the likes of Suter and Parise here would be a huge signal to the rest of the NHL and available UFA's...besides he only made $1.5M last season, he wouldn't get more than that, if not a bit less.. I agree that the Wings don't need BOTH those guys or we're screwed, but they do need those type of changes, or yes, they will be screwed. Cannot give Lidstrom $6.2M and THEN try to sign those type of players. Holland could sign Lids and acquire Ignila to try to "Go For It" one more time, but then Suter is signed somewhere else, Parise is gone...It's just my opinion that Holland needs to stop this "put a band aid on it" by signing old vets to go for it one more time, because he needs to secure the future of this team. If he opts for only Parise and then gives Lids his money, he damn well better be planning to ****** Weber up next off season when he is a UFA, because I believe that one of Suter or Weber should be a Red Wing in order for this team to remain the Elite club that it is expected to be. You guys may disagree with that, but that is fine. Detroit cannot afford to let the likes of any of those three to go to St. Louis or Pit or Chicago or all to Nashville... I just hope Lidstrom takes the road I talked about, secure the future then give an old vet one more shot! 1 Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,936 Report post Posted May 7, 2012 Of course, if the cap does rise to $70Mish, then we are talking a whole different monster. Holland could throw $15M ($7.5M each) at Parise and Suter, $1.25 at Vokoun, $1.25M at Helm, $1M at Abby, let Quincey go (collect draft picks) let Hudler walk and ALSO give Lidstrom his $6.2M and that would be a great team. I'd even let Franzen stick around... FORWARDS Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m) Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.250m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.500m) Ian White ($2.875m) / Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Tomas Vokoun ($1.250m) ------ SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,142,045; BONUSES: $37,500 CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,357,955 Leaving $2.35 available for injury call-ups and extra cash for depth at deadline...as much I as dislike Cleary and Franzen and believe they need to be traded. I can really get behind a roster like this...of course that is IF the Cap goes up to $70M. 3 winger30, Rick D and Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cupcrazy 13 Report post Posted May 8, 2012 Nick needs to seriously get with Kenny, talk about what this team needs in order to secure the future for the next 5-10 years and THEN and ONLY THEN should they talk about what Nick will make this year. We all know Lidstrom is a franchise player, second only to Yzerman as the fan favorite the last two decades. I have no doubt he cares about the future of this organization, but at this point in his playing career I'm guessing his only concern is next season, he isn't thinking about two seasons from now much less 10. I would imagine the conversation is more about what would it take to put a real Stanley Cup contender on the ice for the 2012/2013 season and base his return next season on that. I don't think he makes a decision on next season until he knows what the Wings can put on the ice. I believe we will know his future about a week into free agency. I've been wrong plenty of times before, I just don't see him returning unless we add a couple key players he feels makes the Wings a favorite to win the Cup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scotty7 8 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 If Hollands conversation with lidstrom is money over getting the neccesary parts [players] for this team to win a SC - any fan would have to be seriously disappointed to see lidstrom back in the winged wheel jersey. The past is past. He isn't geting younger and people need to let go and understand that. Talking about him coming back like he is going to be norris caliber addition to this team is comical. Id rather see this team do what is best to win rather than toy with the old gaurd over and over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seraph 240 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 I agree with a lot of the sentiments above. If the dude wants to come back for a chance at the cup, then he should offer to take less in order to get the necessary parts. It's kind of silly to demand a high pay check, beat up your body for another year, and essentially limit the GM from getting what he needs for a cup run. Unless of course he's just after the money, which would be a bummer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,495 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 Agreed. It's a head scratcher to me when fellow LGW members claim that it's an insult if "X" amount of money is offered At this stage of his career - Lids isn't a Norris Trophy calibre Dman - although he's still a top 2 guy on any team in the league...That said - I'm guessing he'll come back for less; he's too smart, and classy of a guy to let his paycheck dictate what he does with his career. How is he not a Norris caliber guy? He won it a year ago and was in contention this year until his injury. 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 It seems like we go through this every new contract with Lidstrom. For starters, it's not like Lidstrom sits down in front of Holland and demands what he should paid, pointing out that the fans would riot if he left. All these negotiations happen with Nick's agent. He's not the absolute best in the league anymore, but he's still a top pairing Dman and probably expects to be compensated as such. Last season Lidstrom still led all D-men on the Wings by playing 23:46 a game. He still plays the most minutes of all d-men on the PP, and still kills penalties. We're not talking about a Chelios type situation where he was a bottom pairing guy. Nick was the #1 d-man and if he returns will almost certainly still function as one of the top two defensemen on the team. He doesn't owe Holland anything more than what Holand owes him. It's not on Nick's shoulders to give Holland more cap room. That's Holland's job. Lidstrom does his job on the ice. And he's given a hometown discount time and time again compared to what his market value was. As I've said in threads like this before, it's really easy to give money away "for the good of the team" when it's not yours. 1 kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 5-6 million. IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 9, 2012 I think he signs for the same 6.2 mil he made last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick D 350 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 Offer him 3M, or let him walk. All he does is bring up the teams average age anyway. :looney: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 I think he signs for the same 6.2 mil he made last season. then there goes any chance of signing both Suter and Parise, and not to mention adding a gritty depth forward like Prust. If that's the case for a guy that's 42 starting the season, even if he's arguably the best Dman to ever play the game, he should retire so we can not lose a golden opportunity to retool for his nearing departure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 9, 2012 then there goes any chance of signing both Suter and Parise, and not to mention adding a gritty depth forward like Prust. If that's the case for a guy that's 42 starting the season, even if he's arguably the best Dman to ever play the game, he should retire so we can not lose a golden opportunity to retool for his nearing departure. Not really... CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER My Custom Lineup FORWARDS Zach Parise ($7.250m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen($3.955m) Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) Travis Moen ($1.750m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Ryan Suter ($7.250m) Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m) Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Josh Harding ($1.500m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,658,712; BONUSES: $37,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster):$341,288 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 Lindstrom is lazy and he sucks. 2 pucktividi and Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 9, 2012 Lindstrom is lazy and he sucks. Lindstrom and Federov. Kenny should've drafted Yagger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pucktividi 472 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 Nick is still going to be the highest payed Wings D man not named Suter My prediction...$5.250m Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 then there goes any chance of signing both Suter and Parise, and not to mention adding a gritty depth forward like Prust. If that's the case for a guy that's 42 starting the season, even if he's arguably the best Dman to ever play the game, he should retire so we can not lose a golden opportunity to retool for his nearing departure. First, unless Lidstrom signs a 12 million dollar contract, he won't affect who we end up signing. Second, if Lidstrom retires and Holland sends offers to both Suter and Parise, what happens if we don't get either? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted May 9, 2012 First, unless Lidstrom signs a 12 million dollar contract, he won't affect who we end up signing. Second, if Lidstrom retires and Holland sends offers to both Suter and Parise, what happens if we don't get either? Then it will be... Kronwall-White Quincey-Ericsson Smith-Kindl Janik Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted May 9, 2012 First, unless Lidstrom signs a 12 million dollar contract, he won't affect who we end up signing. Second, if Lidstrom retires and Holland sends offers to both Suter and Parise, what happens if we don't get either? Honestly, if Holland strikes out on Suter/Parise I expect he'll be active at the draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
