88 replies to this topic

[evilzyme]

http://www.detroitne...0347/1128/rss16

Yeah I saw that the other day also, unfortunately, I think hes talking about Radulov and possibly AK here. The core is: Rinne, Weber, Suter. Inwhich, hes been trying his ass off to secure them for the past full year atleast.

[mmamolo]

Unrealistic? I want our big guns to perform when it counts. For Franzen to score all of one goal against the Predators - and a flukey goal, at that - is unacceptable. So you tell me that's being unrealistic, as Franzen isn't actually an elite player and, as such, would be better served if there were other stars ahead of him in the depth chart so the other teams couldn't key up on him. ("Don't blame Johan! We don't have enough stars! Is it his fault he's making good money with the added comfort of long-term job security? NO! He didn't ask to be a key player! He didn't ask to play on the first line! He didn't choose to suffer these burdens!!!") Well, Babs tried him on every line, with seemingly every possible combination of linemates - and the guy didn't really deliver on any front, in any role.

Fairweather and fickle? That would mean I'm hot and cold with the team; one day I might be all in, the next, total disgust. That's not the same thing as calling out a player for under-performing. (And, for the record, I'm not new to the Floatzen scene.)

Is Babs a fairweather, fickle, unrealistic coach for demoting Franzen to the fourth line?

1. Unrealistic: You expecting Franzen to put up big numbers every single playoff run including years (like this year) when the entire team struggles. You may point to last season as well if you want but he was injured so personally I dont buy it.

I am not saying Franzen was great this year and I'm not saying he couldnt have been better or did more. But it is unrealistic to expect him to dominate each and every year. No one does that.

2. Franzen isn't an elite player and shouldnt be counted upon as one. The Wings didn't/don't have enough depth (which includes top 6 depth) as a team. Franzen is a tweener - he's not elite but he is better than a lot of secondary stars. If you expect Franzen to dominate against the other teams top pairings all the time you will be disappointed. It's like countless teams in the league who don't have a legit Number 1 centre. They plug their best centre in that slot and then fans are pissed when the guy puts up ~50 points instead of true top line centre numbers.

3. Fair weather and fickle does not imply that you are hot and cold with the team. Fair weather implies that when things are great you're all about them and fickle means when things are bad you're totally against them.

[Dabura]

Yeah I saw that the other day also, unfortunately, I think hes talking about Radulov and possibly AK here. The core is: Rinne, Weber, Suter. Inwhich, hes been trying his ass off to secure them for the past full year atleast.

I just found the part I bolded very interesting. I don't know much about Poile, so I guess I'm 50/50 on whether it's a) tact, or b) a pretty remarkable lack thereof.

Edited by Dabura, 10 May 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[SaCkaveli20]

Ya but when the dude comes out and flat out says the regular season is boring..he BETTER go into boss mode every playoff run.

[evilzyme]

Ya but when the dude comes out and flat out says the regular season is boring..he BETTER go into boss mode every playoff run.

Thats one of the biggest things I've had against the Mule. You come out and say that the regular season is boring and that once playoff time comes, you're fully engaged. Well, alright. We saw that one post-season in beast mode. Let's not forget, Mule also wasn't brought into Detroit to be a bonafide sniper, he just turned out to score goals and we pushed that role on him. He never wanted to accept, or had planned to be our #1 scorer. But now that role has been planted upon him, i'm not sure how much he likes it being there. I didn't like his Dodge commercials this season, infact it just put more disgust in my mouth.

[dirtydangles]

Nashville's market doesn't allow them to spend to the cap ceiling, they set a record for sellouts this season with 24 (many of those ownership bought up the tickets) so with the success that franchise has shown over the past few years during the regular season and still not selling out..... About a month ago the Tennessean had an article admitting the Preds still haven't made a profit, and probably won't this season either. 15 free agents to make decisions about (UFA and RFA) but im sure Radulov and Andrei Kostitsyn will be elsewhere. Plus they have to decide on that Hart Trophy candidate Jordin Tootoo as well... lol

Yep i realize that. I was saying that even if they did spend to the ceiling by borrowing more from the league and the city they couldnt sustain 3 players above 7 mill just from a cap to depth standpoint

[evilzyme]

http://www.detroitne...0472/1128/rss16

Detroit— Wherever Ryan Suter decides to play next season, he'll do so likely for the rest of his career.

Suter, the Nashville Predators defenseman who can become an unrestricted free agent July 1, told reporters on locker-cleanout day Wednesday he'll talk to Predators general manager David Poile in about two weeks to discuss the future.

Family will also play a big part in Suter's decision.

"Wherever I sign, I want to be there for the rest of my career," said Suter, who will be pursued aggressively by the Red Wings and many other teams if he's a free agent. "That affects my family, my wife, my kid, if we have more kids … everything plays into it."

Poile has signed goalie Pekka Rinne to a seven-year, $49 million contract earlier this season. Suter and his defensive partner Shea Weber (a restricted free agent earning $7.5 million) are two pieces Poile would like to re-sign long term.

"This morning I had a meeting with David and we talked about everything and the future, and how everything will go," Suter said. "We're going to meet again in a couple of weeks and kind of make a decision."

On the Suter contract situation, Poile said: "I have a good feeling I think it's going to be a difficult contractual situation. We just have to give it time to play out."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitne...2#ixzz1uUx2P0zx

Edited by evilzyme, 10 May 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[unsaddleddonald]

Thats one of the biggest things I've had against the Mule. You come out and say that the regular season is boring and that once playoff time comes, you're fully engaged. Well, alright. We saw that one post-season in beast mode. Let's not forget, Mule also wasn't brought into Detroit to be a bonafide sniper, he just turned out to score goals and we pushed that role on him. He never wanted to accept, or had planned to be our #1 scorer. But now that role has been planted upon him, i'm not sure how much he likes it being there. I didn't like his Dodge commercials this season, infact it just put more disgust in my mouth.

Totally agree.

He can be the NUMBER 2 scorer. (See '08 behind Hank. See '09 behind Hossa)

He cannot be the number one guy. Not enough confidence.

[puckbags]

If Holland offer them both $7.5M per for 5+ yrs. That should be enough to entice both of them. But if they'd rather sign in Columbus for $9M, then let them... I don't doubt that if their respective clubs don't see a re-signing coming, their rights will be traded before they become UFA's...

That worked out good for Wiznoooooooooooski !!

[frankgrimes]

Listen I love to dream on both of them like eveyone but I would incredible thrilled with getting one, preferable would be Suter. At some point we need to think about a "new" Lidström and Suter - given that Shea Weber - is not avaiable will be the closest thing to do so. Parise is a great young captain, outstanding player and seems to be a very humble almost shy person but Suter should be priority 1.

Give me Suter, Prust, Konopka and Neil/Scott and this guy wou.d be a very happy camper come next season. Another one I would love having to wear the Winged Wheel would be Derek Engelland thoughts on him?

[LeftWinger]

That worked out good for Wiznoooooooooooski !!

Yes, my point exactly. But just like Wiz, players do go to bottom feeders for a bigger payday than if they wanted to actually win. Marian Hossa passed up a lifetime deal worth nearly $10M per season from Edmonton to sign in Detroit for that one season to try to win. He was willing to stay for even less, but Holland chose Franzen and Hudler over him...just goes to show, there are some players that actually take less money to win...

[evilzyme]

Yes, my point exactly. But just like Wiz, players do go to bottom feeders for a bigger payday than if they wanted to actually win. Marian Hossa passed up a lifetime deal worth nearly $10M per season from Edmonton to sign in Detroit for that one season to try to win. He was willing to stay for even less, but Holland chose Franzen and Hudler over him...just goes to show, there are some players that actually take less money to win...

As said earlier though, Parise rejected a huge pay raise and went with a 1 year contract. It seems like hes done with the organization and wants a new home. Now, yes, they are getting down the road right now and that can be changing his mind. Their financial problems are also there though, as also stated earlier. I mean all of things add up, it could've been the financial problems that lead him to sign a 1 year contract, it could've been how the moon looked that night. We'll never know, but I don't see Parise going to a bottom feeder for the payday. I think he has too much competition in him, the guy loves to compete and wears his heart on his shoulder. I just can't see a personality and work ethic like that go to a bottom feeder.

[ltgator333]

Yes, my point exactly. But just like Wiz, players do go to bottom feeders for a bigger payday than if they wanted to actually win. Marian Hossa passed up a lifetime deal worth nearly $10M per season from Edmonton to sign in Detroit for that one season to try to win. He was willing to stay for even less, but Holland chose Franzen and Hudler over him...just goes to show, there are some players that actually take less money to win...

I like your line-up but all I want to know is when are we going to get some youth playing from own system.What if Juro comes to camp next year and you have to play him(meaning he shows he that good) than what.

[Buppy]

http://www.detroitne...0472/1128/rss16

Detroit— Wherever Ryan Suter decides to play next season, he'll do so likely for the rest of his career.

Suter, the Nashville Predators defenseman who can become an unrestricted free agent July 1, told reporters on locker-cleanout day Wednesday he'll talk to Predators general manager David Poile in about two weeks to discuss the future.

Family will also play a big part in Suter's decision.

"Wherever I sign, I want to be there for the rest of my career," said Suter, who will be pursued aggressively by the Red Wings and many other teams if he's a free agent. "That affects my family, my wife, my kid, if we have more kids … everything plays into it."

Poile has signed goalie Pekka Rinne to a seven-year, $49 million contract earlier this season. Suter and his defensive partner Shea Weber (a restricted free agent earning $7.5 million) are two pieces Poile would like to re-sign long term.

"This morning I had a meeting with David and we talked about everything and the future, and how everything will go," Suter said. "We're going to meet again in a couple of weeks and kind of make a decision."

On the Suter contract situation, Poile said: "I have a good feeling I think it's going to be a difficult contractual situation. We just have to give it time to play out."



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitne...2#ixzz1uUx2P0zx

To re-rail this thread off Parise for a minute; anyone else think the above suggests the Wings might have an edge in the Suter sweepstakes (provided he doesn't re-sign in Nashville)?

If there's one thing the Wings have over any other team, a history of loyalty to our players is it. Suter has to know he'd get as much or more security/stability here than anywhere else. Combine that with our proven commitment to winning, and a huge chunk of cap space, I'd have to say it puts on the short lit of favorites if he's available come 7/1.

Personally, I think he should be the top priority, as he seems the best chance of a legit heir to Nick we're likely to see in the next few years. If I were Kenny, I'd already be on the phone asking what his rights would cost.

[Hatethedrake!]

Any astute GM will be doing his due diligence in trying to secure Suter's rights before July 1st. However, if I am Poile, then there is no way in hell I would trade the rights to my biggest rival. But hey that's just me, if I were Poile.

[frankgrimes]

Any astute GM will be doing his due diligence in trying to secure Suter's rights before July 1st. However, if I am Poile, then there is no way in hell I would trade the rights to my biggest rival. But hey that's just me, if I were Poile.

Poilie is an outstanding GM he will make sure that his rights are traded to the east, Devils or Philly come to mind.

[evilzyme]

Any astute GM will be doing his due diligence in trying to secure Suter's rights before July 1st. However, if I am Poile, then there is no way in hell I would trade the rights to my biggest rival. But hey that's just me, if I were Poile.

Does he have to trade the rights if Suter is a UFA not RFA? No trade clauses or nothing, just a simple 4 year expiration to UFA. I'm just curious.

[mmamolo]

I like your line-up but all I want to know is when are we going to get some youth playing from own system.What if Juro comes to camp next year and you have to play him(meaning he shows he that good) than what.

That's a complete fantasy. No way Jurco comes into camp and shows that he absolutely, 100% must be added to the roster. But for argument sake, let's say that any of the Wings prospects shows up and dominates then the Wings would clear a roster spot for him.

People always assume that because the Wings typically keep their prospects down in the minors longer than most teams that they wouldn't put a young kid on the team if he absolutely showed he had to be there. Now, that being said maybe the Wings' idea of a kid showing he has to be there is tougher than some other teams but that doesnt mean everyone on the roster is safe. It may be rare but it's not impossible

[evilzyme]

That's a complete fantasy. No way Jurco comes into camp and shows that he absolutely, 100% must be added to the roster. But for argument sake, let's say that any of the Wings prospects shows up and dominates then the Wings would clear a roster spot for him.

People always assume that because the Wings typically keep their prospects down in the minors longer than most teams that they wouldn't put a young kid on the team if he absolutely showed he had to be there. Now, that being said maybe the Wings' idea of a kid showing he has to be there is tougher than some other teams but that doesnt mean everyone on the roster is safe. It may be rare but it's not impossible

Well people assume because for the most part, overripping is what Kenny Holland loves. Our development will push players to become mistake free before they try to come into the NHL. We want maturity, and poise. Look at Brendan Smith, any team would easily play him as an NHL'er right now. The Red Wings though, we say he still has flaws in his play and likes to take risks, so that outweighs the potential of his size and production. A lot of franchises will push their minor players into their system trying to make their team better, Detroit will wait it out and make sure the timing is right. Unfortunately, in the case of Brendan Smith, I think his experience from the AHL is coming to an end and will only reach the next level while playing it full time.

[mmamolo]

Well people assume because for the most part, overripping is what Kenny Holland loves. Our development will push players to become mistake free before they try to come into the NHL. We want maturity, and poise. Look at Brendan Smith, any team would easily play him as an NHL'er right now. The Red Wings though, we say he still has flaws in his play and likes to take risks, so that outweighs the potential of his size and production. A lot of franchises will push their minor players into their system trying to make their team better, Detroit will wait it out and make sure the timing is right. Unfortunately, in the case of Brendan Smith, I think his experience from the AHL is coming to an end and will only reach the next level while playing it full time.

I guess that's what Im saying though. For example, say the Wings sign someone like Suter this summer and Lidstrom returns. Smith would have to play his way onto the team. He'd have to show enough in camp to make the Wings realize they have no choice but to enter him into the line up on a regular basis.

I know a lot of people think Smith would have benefitted this season with the Wings to learn from Lidstrom even if that meant he wasn't in the line up each and every night. Some times (for certian players) I would agree with this type of situation. But as good as Smith was this season when he was with the wings I personally am glad he spent the year with the Griffins because I think he got more out of it.