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Bettman wants to tout the "Original 12" now, haha


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#41 wolverine1817

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 01:20 AM

There were only 6 original teams, the Original 6. Case closed. Nothing to see here.

#42 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 08:48 AM

Pssht. The next thing you know, he'll be saying Ringo was one of the Original Beatles.

It's not so much that it's insulting (which it is) but that in saying it, he looks like a complete idiot who knows nothing about the history of the sport (which he is).

Now that I think of it... I guess this isn't anything we didn't already know.

Perhaps we could call them the "O6:TNG".

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#43 T-Ruff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:31 AM

Are you kidding me? It's absolutely absurd that anyone is "upset" by this. We sure are bored, it's nothing more than a comically weak excuse to hop on the Bettman hate train.

#44 SaCkaveli20

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

Are you kidding me? It's absolutely absurd that anyone is "upset" by this. We sure are bored, it's nothing more than a comically weak excuse to hop on the Bettman hate train.



I agree, so let's go back dreamily doodling Parise & Suter's numbers. :D

#45 Konnan511

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

cant wait till his contract is up and this guy will be shown the boot. He is an absolute atrocious person and maybe the worst commissioner in all sports.

The owners and player love him. Any smart hockey fan knows he's good for the game.

Atrocious person? Really? Come on now.
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#46 amato

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:16 PM

this is just bettman wanting the pens to seem like more important of an organization.. what else is new? Posted Image

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#47 wolverine1817

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

The owners and player love him. Any smart hockey fan knows he's good for the game.

Atrocious person? Really? Come on now.


good for the game or good for the business?

#48 kipwinger

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:44 PM

good for the game or good for the business?


many people (myself included) would suggest that good for business is good for the game. I don't feel like defending that position again since we just had this debate last week. But if it's helpful, go back and look at the "Bettman is the worst thing to happen ever" blah blah blah and you'll be able to see our argument there.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#49 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

good for the game or good for the business?

good for business. The primary reason Bettman was brought in was to implement a cap. It took two work stoppages under his reign but he did it.

But I wouldn't say he's good for the game. Aside from locking the players out twice during his tenure and losing a season and a half of hockey, he also denied for years that clutching and grabbing was out of hand during the dead puck era. It wasn't until the lockout and the competition committee's involvement that they made adjustments to the game to allow skill players to play without getting mugged.

#50 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:50 PM

The owners and player love him.


The name of that player is...

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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#51 55fan

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 01:04 PM

Forgive me. Que?

O6:TNG

Kind of like they had Star Trek, and then they had TNG (the next generation), and then there were other spin-offs.

This is Original 6 (us) and then the next 6 is "the next generation", and then there's the spin-offs.

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#52 T-Ruff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 02:15 PM

But I wouldn't say he's good for the game. Aside from locking the players out twice during his tenure and losing a season and a half of hockey, he also denied for years that clutching and grabbing was out of hand during the dead puck era. It wasn't until the lockout and the competition committee's involvement that they made adjustments to the game to allow skill players to play without getting mugged.

I would submit that Bettman is also the biggest reason we still have fighting in the game and we don't have shootouts in playoff overtime. You know the NBCs of the world would love to not dedicate so much extra prime network time to a triple OT, but Bettman is a traditionalist in many ways. I'm sure that conversation already happened and Bettman wasn't having any of it. As far as fighting goes there are individuals and groups that are actively trying to eliminate it from the game but Bettman has consistently defended it on record.

#53 akustyk

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:34 AM

(..)
But I wouldn't say he's good for the game. Aside from locking the players out twice during his tenure and losing a season and a half of hockey, he also denied for years that clutching and grabbing was out of hand during the dead puck era. It wasn't until the lockout and the competition committee's involvement that they made adjustments to the game to allow skill players to play without getting mugged.



(..) Bettman is a traditionalist in many ways. I'm sure that conversation already happened and Bettman wasn't having any of it. As far as fighting goes there are individuals and groups that are actively trying to eliminate it from the game but Bettman has consistently defended it on record.


are you sure Gary has so much say about the shape of the game?

I don't think the guy has (and even is supposed to) have much understanding of the game. He's a lawyer and needs management and diplomacy skills to get 30 GMs (and NHLPA, at least sometimes) on the same page and make sure the product is marketable (which, don't get me wrong, is not decided by a couple of die hard fans like us, but masses who watch TV and buy tickets and merchandise). nothing less but also nothing more.

there are people in the NHL offices who understand the game and various aspects surrounding it. Gary is not to replace them but only to make the organization deliver. hard cash that is.



look, my company also exists because it delivers excellent product and knowledge support, but it's (among others) me who provides the service. my boss doesn't understand the finer points of service, but he's excellent at selling it to clients.

#54 Rhah

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:50 PM

Imagine my disappointment when I opened the link expecting to see Gary Bettman going on and on and on about the historic significance of the "Original 12". I was fully prepared to scream bloody murder because the OP had led me to believe that Bettman was TOUTING the "Original 12" as opposed to just explaining that St. Louis was indeed one of the original twelve teams and then returning to the topic at hand, the Blues new ownership. When it comes to Bettman's shenanigans it's always best to be prepared, so while I can't scream bloody murder as planned, I'm always ready (as is the OP) to cry wolf over any of Gary's various infractions and disgraces. So I'm putting it on notice, if Gary Bettman doesn't right this wrong immediately, I'm going to start a jihad against him. And the only way he can fix this eggregious folly is to begin TOUTING a new concept: the "Unoriginal 24". The resulting t-shirts and commercials touting this concept will truly put the rest of those pansy assed teams in their place for good!


Yeah my fault, I made an inflammatory post topic... I had just never heard of the term "original" being used for the next 6 teams... oh, and I don't like Gary.

#55 Jersey Wing

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:02 PM

It's the Original Six, end of discussion.

Nobody can make you include something you don't want to include or call something a name you don't want to. Really. Legally. The Denver Broncos and Invesco took the writers of I believe the now defunct Rocky Mountain News to court for not referring to Mile High Stadium as Invesco Field at Mile High. They actually sued the papers and writers and of course lost.

I'm invoking this same legal precedent here.

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#56 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

are you sure Gary has so much say about the shape of the game?

I don't think the guy has (and even is supposed to) have much understanding of the game. He's a lawyer and needs management and diplomacy skills to get 30 GMs (and NHLPA, at least sometimes) on the same page and make sure the product is marketable (which, don't get me wrong, is not decided by a couple of die hard fans like us, but masses who watch TV and buy tickets and merchandise). nothing less but also nothing more.

there are people in the NHL offices who understand the game and various aspects surrounding it. Gary is not to replace them but only to make the organization deliver. hard cash that is.



look, my company also exists because it delivers excellent product and knowledge support, but it's (among others) me who provides the service. my boss doesn't understand the finer points of service, but he's excellent at selling it to clients.

He has say about the shape of the game, because a big part of his job is to get 30 GM's to agree on things.

That's my biggest problem with Bettman, that he has little to no understanding, or at least no passion for the game. And yes, he is supposed to have it. When you're in charge of a billion dollar company, you should have a pretty good understanding of what the product is. To further your analogy, I don't expect Bettman to have a great slapshot, or even know how to skate. But I expect him to understand the ins and outs of the game itself, not just the business side. And as importantly, have a love for the game since he more than anyone else is its steward.

#57 Barrie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

Bettman's probably trying to create some interest in the LA-Phoenix series, as LA was in the first waive of expansion. Plus his favorite player, Cindy Crosby, and favorite team, Pittsburgh, is part of an "Original 12" team.

Bettman keeps talking about how well the League is doing, but I heard talk today on the Buffalo sports talk station, WGR 550am, about how the clutch, grab, and playing the trap is back in the game. One caller said teams may as well just put 4 players in front of the net to block shots, that's what it's coming too. As mentioned, I haven't been watching, so I can't comment on it.
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#58 kipwinger

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:33 PM

He has say about the shape of the game, because a big part of his job is to get 30 GM's to agree on things.

That's my biggest problem with Bettman, that he has little to no understanding, or at least no passion for the game. And yes, he is supposed to have it. When you're in charge of a billion dollar company, you should have a pretty good understanding of what the product is. To further your analogy, I don't expect Bettman to have a great slapshot, or even know how to skate. But I expect him to understand the ins and outs of the game itself, not just the business side. And as importantly, have a love for the game since he more than anyone else is its steward.


I don't know that he doesn't have any knowledge of the game. He's had the job for ten years now and is constantly surrounded by officials, former players, union reps, etc. I'd imagine he knows plenty about the game, and certainly knows the difference between "The Original Six" and the first twelve NHL teams. I just happen to think that there are essentially two ways of thinking about this: Loving the game = not deviating too much from its traditional format, and loving the game = wanting to see the NHL as a premier league in professional sports, complete with premier tv deals, premier talent, and premier fan bases. Bettman obviously belongs to the second way of thinking, as do most of the owners. Doesn't really make him more or less knowledgeable, but I do think that his ability to affect the direction and future of the sport certainly influences the way he sees the game. I'm not saying his way of thinking is right or wrong, but it's definitely informed, and understandable. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Bettman's perspective on the game is as knowledgeable, and more unique than anyone else on earth, given the fact that he alone has to address the combined concerns of the owners, players, officials, and fans every single year to the best of his ability.

Note: Sorry to be long winded but just think about the example of the Realignment. Owners care about cost, profits, home/away scheduling, etc. Players care about travel, fatigue, family time, etc. Fans want to see rivalries, prime time games, quality competition, etc. On top of all that, the concerns of the owners, players, and fans of any one team, are different than the concerns of the owners, players, fans of every other team. Ultimately, coming up with a plan that best satisfies all of these demands falls solely on Bettman and his staff, and personally I don't think anybody who didn't know much about the game could possibly do it. And that's just one issue.

Edited by kipwinger, 14 May 2012 - 03:40 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#59 Barrie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:53 PM

loving the game = wanting to see the NHL as a premier league in professional sports, complete with premier tv deals, premier talent, and premier fan bases. Bettman obviously belongs to the second way of thinking, as do most of the owners. Doesn't really make him more or less knowledgeable, but I do think that his ability to affect the direction and future of the sport certainly influences the way he sees the game.

Nothing against what you said, it's just my personal opinion about Bettman. That's the thing that bugs me most about the guy, and the Board of Governors, is that they don't seem to have a clue about how to make the NHL a premier sport. Bettman seems more concerned about his bankrupt teams than his richest markets. Personally I've been wondering the last few years why I continue to watch, when strange things seem to happen against the Wings in the Playoffs to favor Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Nashville. Bettman seems to have his favorite teams, i.e. Phoenix and Pittsburgh, and continually tried to market the League around one of it's most hated and whiniest player.

Also I wonder sometimes who's in charge of market research of the NHL. Including the booos and anti comments for Crosby, take a listen to any sports talk station in America, and Americans wonder why they allow fighting and hits to the head. If you want to be thought of the same as the NFL, MLB, and NBA, you need to listen to your fans.

I don't know what the NHL is afraid of if they ban fighting and hits to the head. How many fans would they lose if there was no more fights or hits to the head? I say zero. Plus if anyone just watches for the fights and hits to the head, you don't want them as fans anyway.
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#60 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:06 PM

I don't know that he doesn't have any knowledge of the game. He's had the job for ten years now and is constantly surrounded by officials, former players, union reps, etc. I'd imagine he knows plenty about the game, and certainly knows the difference between "The Original Six" and the first twelve NHL teams. I just happen to think that there are essentially two ways of thinking about this: Loving the game = not deviating too much from its traditional format, and loving the game = wanting to see the NHL as a premier league in professional sports, complete with premier tv deals, premier talent, and premier fan bases. Bettman obviously belongs to the second way of thinking, as do most of the owners. Doesn't really make him more or less knowledgeable, but I do think that his ability to affect the direction and future of the sport certainly influences the way he sees the game. I'm not saying his way of thinking is right or wrong, but it's definitely informed, and understandable. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Bettman's perspective on the game is as knowledgeable, and more unique than anyone else on earth, given the fact that he alone has to address the combined concerns of the owners, players, officials, and fans every single year to the best of his ability.

Note: Sorry to be long winded but just think about the example of the Realignment. Owners care about cost, profits, home/away scheduling, etc. Players care about travel, fatigue, family time, etc. Fans want to see rivalries, prime time games, quality competition, etc. On top of all that, the concerns of the owners, players, and fans of any one team, are different than the concerns of the owners, players, fans of every other team. Ultimately, coming up with a plan that best satisfies all of these demands falls solely on Bettman and his staff, and personally I don't think anybody who didn't know much about the game could possibly do it. And that's just one issue.

But that's not what Bettman did with that issue at all. He went and talked to all the owners and they created a plan without ever consulting the players or NHLPA. Then he gave an incredibly short deadline for the NHLPA to consult with its members and consider all the implications of the realignment, putting them in the position of having to hold up approving it. He wasn't coming up with a plan that satisfies the players at all. He was appeasing the owners and using the realignment to make the NHLPA look bad headed into CBA negotiations. And now that he got his cap rammed through last time, I fully expect this round will include putting the screws to the players again to get the owners a larger share of profits, while using tactics to make the players union look bad, like he did with realignment. The negotiations haven't even begun and Bettman has set a divisive tone with his remarks about the NHLPA and the realignment plan.

I don't think loving the game necessarily means not deviating from the original format. Look at Shanahan. The guy clearly loves the game, but has also come up with some pretty innovative ideas to try and improve it. Bettman is beholden to all the GM's, sometimes at the cost of the greater good of the game, and it shows. I'm not saying he has an easy job. It's an incredibly hard one. I just think part of the NHL commissioner's job should include protecting the integrity of the game and sometimes preventing the owners from being their own worst enemy. And in that regard, Bettman is lacking.

But by far his most annoying quality is his condescending remarks towards fans and what they think. Basically telling us time and time again that we're wrong. "Clutching and grabbing? Nope. Fans and players have told me they love how the game is played." "Officiating? Are refs do a great job and fans and players have told me they're happy with the job the officials are doing."





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