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Babcock and Holland want to keep Homer.


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#61 FlashyG

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:40 PM

Everyone of course has their own opinions on Hommer coming back. So let's play what if for a few minutes. if Hommer and Nicky resign, that means we have 14 forwards and 7 Dmen signed. That kinda kills any dreams of big name FA's coming. Forwards: dat, Mule, Burt, Z, Filppula, Nyquist, Abdelakader, Helm, Muarsk, Miller, eaves, Emmerton, Cleary, and Sheahan. Yes we could send 1 or 2 down to GR. So a little wiggle room here. On D we have: Nicky, Nick, White, Quincy, Ericcson, Kindl, and Smith. Other than Smith no one else can go down IIRC, and Smith has all but been promised a spot. Money is also getting tight at this point. If we have 20 million to spend-again no one knows the amount yet, it is mostly spent. 2 for helm, 2 for Abdelkader, 3.5 for Quincy, 5 for Nicky, and say 3 for Hommer. That is 15.5 right there. 4.5 million isn't going to get any of the big name younger FA's. if might get us 35 year old Doan however. This would create something of a FA/roster nightmare for next year. Nicky, Homer, Cleary, Fippula, White, Howard would all be UFA's. that is 6 of the 19 regulars all becoming UFA's at the same time.


I'd say there is almost no chance Sheahan is on the Wings roster next season, He'll be in GR barring injuries.

I also think you might have overvalued a few of those re-signed players.

Before any FA signees the line-up would probably look like this.

Forwards
Datsyuk (6.7)
Zetterberg (6)
Franzen (3.9)
Filppula (3)
Cleary (2.8)
Bertuzzi (2)
Helm (1.7)
Eaves (1.2)
Abdelkader (1.2)
Homer (1)
Nyquist (0.8)
Miller (0.8)
Mursak (0.5)
Emmerton (0.5)

appx. 32.1 Million in forwards (some to be sent to GR or released to make roster room)

Defence
Lidstrom (6)
Kronwall (4.75)
Quincey (3.25)
Ericsson (3.25)
White (2.8)
Kindl (0.8)
Smith (0.8)

21.7 million on defence

Goalies
Howard (2.25)
MacDonald (0.5)

2.75 in Goalies

Total payroll of 56.55 million dollars approximately.

Even at the current salary cap of 64 million we could afford a big ticket FA forward to upgrade on Hudler and a back-up goalie to upgrade on MacDonald. If the cap goes up we can afford even more, and either send guys through waivers to the minors or work a trade to open up roster spots.



#62 kipwinger

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:51 PM

I don't think Gaustad's the second coming of Gretzky. No one does. I DO think he'd help.

"ZOMG he doesn't fight that much! (Only four fights last season! And he lost two of them!!!)"
"ZOMG 6'5 isn't big enough! (The Wings are already a very big and physically imposing team!!!)"
"ZOMG Nashville gave up a first-round pick for him and he was a pain in our collective ass and we gave up a first-rounder for Quincey and Quincey sucked so ZOMG they overpaid and we don't need to overpay for players!!!"

He's a free agent this summer. If he's asking for 4 million, then sure - pass on him. But if he can be had for less than 3? I'd say it's worth it.


Help do what? Win faceoffs, sure. Play defense, sure. If you think those two things are worth the 1.7 million dollars more than Abby that he currently makes, then I can't disagree with you. Paul Gaustad is essentially Bertuzzi, without the size, scoring touch, versatility, and playmaking ability. But he sure is hell in the faceoff circle.

p.s. 6'5 is TALL, it's not that big. The guy is tall and skinny by NHL standards. He's build almost exactly like Jacub Kindl. Well to be fair, he has 2 inches and 2 pounds on Kindl. There are like 100 guys in the league that are bigger than that.

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#63 Barrie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:02 PM

This is the downside to success, these guys that were involved in it deserve a proper send off. The key is to cut ties with them, but not embarrass them while doing it.
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#64 Richdg

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

I'd say there is almost no chance Sheahan is on the Wings roster next season, He'll be in GR barring injuries.

I also think you might have overvalued a few of those re-signed players.

Before any FA signees the line-up would probably look like this.

Forwards
Datsyuk (6.7)
Zetterberg (6)
Franzen (3.9)
Filppula (3)
Cleary (2.8)
Bertuzzi (2)
Helm (1.7)
Eaves (1.2)
Abdelkader (1.2)
Homer (1)
Nyquist (0.8)
Miller (0.8)
Mursak (0.5)
Emmerton (0.5)

appx. 32.1 Million in forwards (some to be sent to GR or released to make roster room)

Defence
Lidstrom (6)
Kronwall (4.75)
Quincey (3.25)
Ericsson (3.25)
White (2.8)
Kindl (0.8)
Smith (0.8)

21.7 million on defence

Goalies
Howard (2.25)
MacDonald (0.5)

2.75 in Goalies

Total payroll of 56.55 million dollars approximately.

Even at the current salary cap of 64 million we could afford a big ticket FA forward to upgrade on Hudler and a back-up goalie to upgrade on MacDonald. If the cap goes up we can afford even more, and either send guys through waivers to the minors or work a trade to open up roster spots.



Per cap geek, we are at 43.5 million right now for the upcoming season. The group of Nicky, Hommer, Helm, Abdelkader, and Quincy will be between 13 and 16 million. That is the best guess for now. We can debate how much everyone is worth untill we are blue in the face, but that will mean we are in the 57-60 million range. So back to my point, roam for 1 FA. maybe if we are closer to 56 we can get a Suter or a Parise, but not both. Over 60 and we MAY not even be able to add 1 of them-depending on the final cap number. If any of the rumors are true about Suter and Parise going after 7.5 million per year, expect that to go higher. Bidding wars happen all the time. But even if it don't. Does adding a Suter or parise to the team that got beat in the 1st round make us a SC team? Opinions will very. But and here is the kicker, we get to do this over again next year. 6 are UFA's. So we end up treading water here.



Not matter what happens, it will be fun to watch!

#65 Richdg

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

One last thought. yes the RW's have built up a tradition of letting guys play forever. paying them well the whole time. But keep in mind, much of that was BEFORE the salary cap. Yes the last group: Draper, maltby, McCarty, and osgood stayed a long time. But none of those guys were big money players. Their cap hits were much smaller. Keeping those guys didn't involve nearly the risk. they were all in the 2 million range. Keeping guys that make 3 times that amount gets far more risky. Not the mention the really bad contracts to Mule and Z. IIRC 1 has 8 years left and the other 9. 10 million per year tied up in 2 guys that are under contract into their 40's...... YUCK!

#66 Barrie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

One last thought. yes the RW's have built up a tradition of letting guys play forever. paying them well the whole time. But keep in mind, much of that was BEFORE the salary cap. Yes the last group: Draper, maltby, McCarty, and osgood stayed a long time. But none of those guys were big money players. Their cap hits were much smaller. Keeping those guys didn't involve nearly the risk. they were all in the 2 million range. Keeping guys that make 3 times that amount gets far more risky. Not the mention the really bad contracts to Mule and Z. IIRC 1 has 8 years left and the other 9. 10 million per year tied up in 2 guys that are under contract into their 40's...... YUCK!

Yea keeping Holmstrom around one more year for about a million, isn't like Messier wanting 1st line minutes his last year with the Rangers.
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#67 FlashyG

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:19 PM

Per cap geek, we are at 43.5 million right now for the upcoming season. The group of Nicky, Hommer, Helm, Abdelkader, and Quincy will be between 13 and 16 million. That is the best guess for now. We can debate how much everyone is worth untill we are blue in the face, but that will mean we are in the 57-60 million range. So back to my point, roam for 1 FA. maybe if we are closer to 56 we can get a Suter or a Parise, but not both. Over 60 and we MAY not even be able to add 1 of them-depending on the final cap number. If any of the rumors are true about Suter and Parise going after 7.5 million per year, expect that to go higher. Bidding wars happen all the time. But even if it don't. Does adding a Suter or parise to the team that got beat in the 1st round make us a SC team? Opinions will very. But and here is the kicker, we get to do this over again next year. 6 are UFA's. So we end up treading water here.

Not matter what happens, it will be fun to watch!



I think its unlikely we get both Suter and Parise. Suter is likely to be the more sought after prize so I'd guess he'll be the one we don't get, especially if Lidstrom comes back for another year.

Also, I think that Detroit could even stand pat at the deadline and win the Cup next year, the difference between winning the cup and going out in the first round is a very slim. I'd like our chances a lot better though with an upgrade in the top 6 and a better back-up goalie. A right handed shot on the point wouldn't hurt either, but the point is that even with Homer back for another year we have plenty of cap space to improve the roster, and we'll have more than enough next year to address the re-signing of Howard, White, and Flip.

#68 Heaten

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 05:30 PM

http://translate.goo...-toppforward%2F


"And Holmstrom?
- It's a difficult question. Much depends on what he is prepared to accept himself, says Detroit's general manager.
What do you mean?
- He would then probably have a different role. Less ice time. Do not play in any of the top chains. And given age is probably also a lower wage.
Holland continues:
- Right now I do not know how Thomas's reaction to it.
Detoitcoachen Mike Babcock has his theory clear.
- I think it will be a package deal. Continuing one of them will be the second to catch on. And of course I really want to either run for another year"


What I am reading is

"We want Lidstrom to sign a one-year deal and signing Holmstrom increases our chances since they are best friends"

Question is, would you take Holmstrom back for a fourth line grinder if it means keeping Lidstrom?



#69 Richdg

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:47 PM

What I am reading is

"We want Lidstrom to sign a one-year deal and signing Holmstrom increases our chances since they are best friends"

Question is, would you take Holmstrom back for a fourth line grinder if it means keeping Lidstrom?




4th line grinder? he can't skate, never could.

#70 LeftWinger

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:12 PM

Homer needs to retire. We already have 13 forwards (once Helm and Abby are re-signed) and will be getting (hopefully) a Parise type player for Datsyuk. That already pushes one of Mursak or Emmerton off the team, now you want to re-sign Homer and push both of them off the team? So signing Homer is better than keeping Mursak and Emmerton? Of course in my scenario, I get rid of Mursak, but I am NOT signing Homer at the expense of any of them, and God forbid at the expense of not signing Parise...Thanks for the memories Homer, but it over. This team needs its youth to remain. Bottom line, if they sign Holmstrom, and Parise, then they lose BOTH Emmerton and Mursak and Sheahan never comes up. If they don't want to lose one of those, then they cannot sign Parise, so in order to get Lidstrom back and keep some youth, you are passing on Parise and siging Holmstrom...


Parise and Emmerton far better than Holmstrom and Mursak...sorry Homer lovers...

Edited by LeftWinger, 14 May 2012 - 08:15 PM.

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#71 The Axe

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:23 PM

They've already made a huge mistake in re-signing Bertuzzi. I bet they compound it and re-sign Holmstrom, Stuart, and Hudler. These guys are too slow and do not make the other team pay with physical play. The Wings have 10 power play forwards and Helm and Abdelkader. They need more big bodies that skate like the wind and hit everything in sight. Notice how the Kings have a FEW Euro Style Forwards, and only A FEW? The Wings have 10 right now and only need 2 or 3. Get rid of the rest already.

#72 GMRwings1983

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:31 PM

They've already made a huge mistake in re-signing Bertuzzi. I bet they compound it and re-sign Holmstrom, Stuart, and Hudler. These guys are too slow and do not make the other team pay with physical play. The Wings have 10 power play forwards and Helm and Abdelkader. They need more big bodies that skate like the wind and hit everything in sight. Notice how the Kings have a FEW Euro Style Forwards, and only A FEW? The Wings have 10 right now and only need 2 or 3. Get rid of the rest already.


Time for a euro purge.
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#73 FlashyG

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:35 PM

Parise and Emmerton far better than Holmstrom and Mursak...sorry Homer lovers...


Parise and Homer is better than either.

I'm fine with putting Emmerton through waivers if it comes to that.

I'm not huge on bringing Homer back but if its a case of him and Lidstrom or neither, then the decision is an easy one.

Sign them.

#74 LeftWinger

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:41 PM

So it is of one negger's opinion that losing Emmerton/Mursak and possibly not being able to sign Parise is worth re-signing Holmstrom... I get it. I hope you enjoy a worse season than last year, because if it was not for the 23 game win streak at home and they played like they did on the road, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. But just keep re-signing players from the 90's, just keep losing top prospects for washed up players...oh wait, you can always trade a first round draft pick for them later in their career's...that'll make up for it all! Holland re-signs Holmstrom and loses youth because of it, this team will be in trouble for years, indeed.

I understand your love for Homer, but there are only so many roster spots to be handed out. Hey, here's an idea, lets sign Homer and not sign one of Helm or Abby, that'll make it better and open up a roster spot... Nobody here can convince any of us that re-signing Holmstrom will make this team better than they were last season. Thank you Homer for all the years, but please, call it a career...

Parise and Homer is better than either.

I'm fine with putting Emmerton through waivers if it comes to that.

I'm not huge on bringing Homer back but if its a case of him and Lidstrom or neither, then the decision is an easy one.

Sign them.

Yes, but signing Parise and Homer you are exposing Emmerton AND Mursak to waivers or trade. I understand wanting Lidstrom back, especially if he heals 100% from his injury, but to lose TWO young players for the sake of an aging Holmstrom who will be the 13th forward most nights..I dunno, if it doesn't affect Hollands ability to pursue Parise and Suter, then I guess...but I hate, year after year, sacrificing youth for "One more Shot." Which BTW, that "SHOT" seems to get further and further away from the target each year...

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#75 FlashyG

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:40 PM

Yes, but signing Parise and Homer you are exposing Emmerton AND Mursak to waivers or trade. I understand wanting Lidstrom back, especially if he heals 100% from his injury, but to lose TWO young players for the sake of an aging Holmstrom who will be the 13th forward most nights..I dunno, if it doesn't affect Hollands ability to pursue Parise and Suter, then I guess...but I hate, year after year, sacrificing youth for "One more Shot." Which BTW, that "SHOT" seems to get further and further away from the target each year...


How would we lose both Emmerton and Mursak by re-signing Holmstrom?


Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Parise, Franzen, Filppula, Nyquist, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Miller, Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Mursak, Holmstrom
Lidstrom, Kronwall, Quincey, Ericsson, White, Smith, Kindl
Howard, MacDonald


23 roster spots, 14 forwards, 7 defenceman and 2 goalies.

Like I said, I'm not a big Homer fan at this point in his career, but even without the connection to Lidstom, I'd prefer him to Emmerton. I doubt we'd even lose him to waivers, he'd probably clear them with ease. There is also a chance Eaves will be on LTIR which would give us an extra roster spot to work with.

My biggest question is whether Tatar has any waivers exemption years left. I wouldn't want to lose him for nothing after watching his performance at the WHC.

#76 puckbags

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

I don't think Gaustad's the second coming of Gretzky. No one does. I DO think he'd help.

"ZOMG he doesn't fight that much! (Only four fights last season! And he lost two of them!!!)"
"ZOMG 6'5 isn't big enough! (The Wings are already a very big and physically imposing team!!!)"
"ZOMG Nashville gave up a first-round pick for him and he was a pain in our collective ass and we gave up a first-rounder for Quincey and Quincey sucked so ZOMG they overpaid and we don't need to overpay for players!!!"

He's a free agent this summer. If he's asking for 4 million, then sure - pass on him. But if he can be had for less than 3? I'd say it's worth it.


Excuse my old ass ignorance but what the hell does ZOMG mean? Is that something Beiber says?

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#77 Richdg

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:31 AM

How would we lose both Emmerton and Mursak by re-signing Holmstrom?


Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Parise, Franzen, Filppula, Nyquist, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Miller, Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Mursak, Holmstrom
Lidstrom, Kronwall, Quincey, Ericsson, White, Smith, Kindl
Howard, MacDonald


23 roster spots, 14 forwards, 7 defenceman and 2 goalies.

Like I said, I'm not a big Homer fan at this point in his career, but even without the connection to Lidstom, I'd prefer him to Emmerton. I doubt we'd even lose him to waivers, he'd probably clear them with ease. There is also a chance Eaves will be on LTIR which would give us an extra roster spot to work with.

My biggest question is whether Tatar has any waivers exemption years left. I wouldn't want to lose him for nothing after watching his performance at the WHC.


Tatar????? Surely you jest. Just we we need....Another 5-10/180 forward that doesn't even excell at GR. 58 points in the minors is nothing to get worked upabout. He gets pushed all over the ice. The WC's are not the NHL. hell half the best players for each country are not even there. Plus the wider ice helps a smaller guy like him.

#78 Dabura

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:39 AM

Oh, ok.

I'm going to assume that your gal has been led astray by her friends on Gaustad. He's not that great, but I don't want to imply that she has bad taste.

Homer's still cuter. :P


:hehe:

I was in the doghouse at the time. And we were all drunk.

kipwinger,

We could use a package like Gaustad's on the fourth line. We're smallish down the middle. While not The Messiah, he has a pretty solid all-around game. He can fight. He gave us problems in the Nashville series.

I'm not one of the LGWers who was talking him up around the trade deadline. This is the first time I've mentioned him - and you'll notice I've offered several other options for the fourth-line center slot (which DOES need to be upgraded). They are: Jason Arnott, Chris Kelly, Zenon Konopka, and some gritty guy I found under a rock.

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#79 FlashyG

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

Tatar????? Surely you jest. Just we we need....Another 5-10/180 forward that doesn't even excell at GR. 58 points in the minors is nothing to get worked upabout. He gets pushed all over the ice. The WC's are not the NHL. hell half the best players for each country are not even there. Plus the wider ice helps a smaller guy like him.


58 pts is in the top 25 in the AHL. Neither Emmerton or Mursak have scored anywhere near that in their time in the AHL. The kid is only 22 years old and can easily bulk up, but I don't seem him playing on the checking line anyways.

If we have to lose someone to waivers, I'd rather keep him than I would Emmerton or Mursak.

#80 kipwinger

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 11:00 AM

:hehe:

I was in the doghouse at the time. And we were all drunk.

kipwinger,

We could use a package like Gaustad's on the fourth line. We're smallish down the middle. While not The Messiah, he has a pretty solid all-around game. He can fight. He gave us problems in the Nashville series.

I'm not one of the LGWers who was talking him up around the trade deadline. This is the first time I've mentioned him - and you'll notice I've offered several other options for the fourth-line center slot (which DOES need to be upgraded). They are: Jason Arnott, Chris Kelly, Zenon Konopka, and some gritty guy I found under a rock.


I agree we need to an upgrade over Emmerton, and we'll get it...Abdelkader. Next year our centers will be Dats, Z, Helm, Abby. Gaustad is not a terrible hockey player, no doubt about it. But he's terribly over priced for what he brings, especially considering he'll never crack our top three center positions. Even if he makes the same money as he did this year, that's still 2.5 million on our forth line. As for the other guys, I absolutely love Jason Arnott, but he's about a zillion years old and I don't see that any of the rest are any better than Abby. In my opinion we're all set at center, we've got to improve on the wings. Again, just my opinion and you're welcome to yours as well.

p.s. I know you weren't treating Gaustad as the messiah, your comment was just the most recent in months worth of comments, stemming back to the deadline, heralding him as some sort of missing link on this team. I didn't mean to make it seem like my criticism was pointed directly at you alone.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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