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Babcock and Holland want to keep Homer.


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#81 ogreslayer

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 11:11 AM

My biggest question is whether Tatar has any waivers exemption years left. I wouldn't want to lose him for nothing after watching his performance at the WHC.

Tatar signed at the age of 18 in September of 2009. He has 5 years until he has to go through waivers which wouldn't be until the 2014-2015 season.

#82 Richdg

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:17 PM

I agree we need to an upgrade over Emmerton, and we'll get it...Abdelkader. Next year our centers will be Dats, Z, Helm, Abby. Gaustad is not a terrible hockey player, no doubt about it. But he's terribly over priced for what he brings, especially considering he'll never crack our top three center positions. Even if he makes the same money as he did this year, that's still 2.5 million on our forth line. As for the other guys, I absolutely love Jason Arnott, but he's about a zillion years old and I don't see that any of the rest are any better than Abby. In my opinion we're all set at center, we've got to improve on the wings. Again, just my opinion and you're welcome to yours as well.

p.s. I know you weren't treating Gaustad as the messiah, your comment was just the most recent in months worth of comments, stemming back to the deadline, heralding him as some sort of missing link on this team. I didn't mean to make it seem like my criticism was pointed directly at you alone.



Zetterberg didn't even play C this year very often. he was the wing on Filppula's line. Moving him away from Dat hurt both.

#83 kipwinger

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:21 PM

Zetterberg didn't even play C this year very often. he was the wing on Filppula's line. Moving him away from Dat hurt both.


You really can't get much more wrong than this. Zetterberg was the center with Flip and Hudler on the wings. Ask around, you'll see. Also, Datsyuk's production was hurt by injury, Z's by the slump. Datsyuk was in the top ten in scoring before his injury and Zetterberg turned it on and led the team in points while also leading Flip to a career year in goals and points, and Hulder to a career year in goals.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#84 Dabura

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

Simply put: I don't like Abdelkader as our fourth-line center.

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#85 Richdg

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

58 pts is in the top 25 in the AHL. Neither Emmerton or Mursak have scored anywhere near that in their time in the AHL. The kid is only 22 years old and can easily bulk up, but I don't seem him playing on the checking line anyways.

If we have to lose someone to waivers, I'd rather keep him than I would Emmerton or Mursak.



Yes, plays a full season and can't even get to 60 points in the minors. Everyone that has any talent gets called up, which is way he plays the whole season there. As for bulking up, there is nothing he can do that will make him 6-2/205 which is the norm in the NHL for 2012. Those are the league avergaes-rounded off of course. Tatar is a nothing prospect. We are full of guys like him, and yet can't make any trades. You think there is a relationship there? Nobody wants our "propsects" other the Smith who we better not trade. Speedy Euor forwards that are under 6ft and less than 200 pounds are a dime a dozen. Every team has them. Yes they can help your AHL team, but most are far to small to help at the NHL level.

#86 kipwinger

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:26 PM

Simply put: I don't like Abdelkader as our fourth-line center.


That's fine, but where do you put him then? You've already got Bert, Cleary, Eaves, Miller, Jursak, and potentially Holmstrom to divide between the 4 winger spots on the 3rd and 4th line. And you can't deny he's better than Emmerton.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#87 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:41 PM

Simply put: I don't like Abdelkader as our fourth-line center.

I tend to agree. he seems much better as a wing. One way to put back on the wing is to sign (acquire somehow) two new wingers for Datsyuk (Parise & Semin(cheap) just suggesting names) which will put Franzen back down with Zetterberg (where I think he does a bit better) and that'll put Filppula back at third line center pushing Helm back to the 4th sliding Abby back to the wing.

Parise - Dastyul - Semin
Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Cleary
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader
Eaves (homer)

You could flip Miller/Eaves and Homer in and out I guess, this would cause you to lose both Emmerton and Mursak though...unless Cleary is traded (which I do not see happening...)

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#88 Motown4013

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:14 PM

Oh, ok.

I'm going to assume that your gal has been led astray by her friends on Gaustad. He's not that great, but I don't want to imply that she has bad taste.

Homer's still cuter. :P

lol...agreed.
Im not sure about Homer being cute but the fawning of Gaustad is weird. He's attractive in a "you have no disfigurations" kinda way. Yikes
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#89 kipwinger

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:17 PM

I tend to agree. he seems much better as a wing. One way to put back on the wing is to sign (acquire somehow) two new wingers for Datsyuk (Parise & Semin(cheap) just suggesting names) which will put Franzen back down with Zetterberg (where I think he does a bit better) and that'll put Filppula back at third line center pushing Helm back to the 4th sliding Abby back to the wing.

Parise - Dastyul - Semin
Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Cleary
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader
Eaves (homer)

You could flip Miller/Eaves and Homer in and out I guess, this would cause you to lose both Emmerton and Mursak though...unless Cleary is traded (which I do not see happening...)


Cleary, Eaves, and Miller are all much better wingers than Abdelkader. You can't squeeze blood from a stone guys, abby is probably not ever going to be a productive point producer/finisher. All of those other guys have shown that can. Plus, everybody is constantly talking about getting bigger down the center. Moving Abby accomplishes this, allows him to take draws (which he's good at), and gives him more defensive responsibility than the wingers (which he's also good at). Why in the hell would you want him on the wing?

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Edited by kipwinger, 15 May 2012 - 02:19 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#90 Motown4013

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

I tend to agree. he seems much better as a wing. One way to put back on the wing is to sign (acquire somehow) two new wingers for Datsyuk (Parise & Semin(cheap) just suggesting names) which will put Franzen back down with Zetterberg (where I think he does a bit better) and that'll put Filppula back at third line center pushing Helm back to the 4th sliding Abby back to the wing.

Parise - Dastyul - Semin
Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Cleary
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader
Eaves (homer)

You could flip Miller/Eaves and Homer in and out I guess, this would cause you to lose both Emmerton and Mursak though...unless Cleary is traded (which I do not see happening...)

I cant stress enough that I for one do NOT want Semin on this team as long as we have Franzenfloat. He is lazy, underproduces, cant backcheck and would NOT fit into the system in Detroit SO unless he is willing to take a huge paycut and completely change his game, NO NO NO!
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#91 kipwinger

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:26 PM

I cant stress enough that I for one do NOT want Semin on this team as long as we have Franzenfloat. He is lazy, underproduces, cant backcheck and would NOT fit into the system in Detroit SO unless he is willing to take a huge paycut and completely change his game, NO NO NO!


Actually the opposite, you have to quit stressing it and then Leftwinger will hopefully quite writing it. He has found a way to talk about nothing but Parise and Semin in every current thread. Maybe if we ignore it, it will go away.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#92 FlashyG

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:56 PM

Yes, plays a full season and can't even get to 60 points in the minors. Everyone that has any talent gets called up, which is way he plays the whole season there. As for bulking up, there is nothing he can do that will make him 6-2/205 which is the norm in the NHL for 2012. Those are the league avergaes-rounded off of course. Tatar is a nothing prospect. We are full of guys like him, and yet can't make any trades. You think there is a relationship there? Nobody wants our "propsects" other the Smith who we better not trade. Speedy Euor forwards that are under 6ft and less than 200 pounds are a dime a dozen. Every team has them. Yes they can help your AHL team, but most are far to small to help at the NHL level.



If you pay so little attention to the Wings that you think Zetterberg played the wing this year, why should any of us take your opinion of our farm team any more seriously? From your assessment of prospects in the NHL the only ones that count are ones that will become an elite talent.

I'm not saying Tatar will be our future #1 left winger. I think he'll be a great 3rd line left winger, or a good 2nd line winger once he gets a little stronger and that he's more valuable to the franchise than either Emmerton or Mursak.

#93 Richdg

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:56 PM

If you pay so little attention to the Wings that you think Zetterberg played the wing this year, why should any of us take your opinion of our farm team any more seriously? From your assessment of prospects in the NHL the only ones that count are ones that will become an elite talent.

I'm not saying Tatar will be our future #1 left winger. I think he'll be a great 3rd line left winger, or a good 2nd line winger once he gets a little stronger and that he's more valuable to the franchise than either Emmerton or Mursak.



I have seen Tatar play 18 or so games the past couple years IN GR. He is nothing more than filler. He is going to be a career minor leaguer that gets calls up to9 fill in when a real NHL player gets hurt. That is all he is.

#94 FlashyG

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:34 PM

I have seen Tatar play 18 or so games the past couple years IN GR. He is nothing more than filler. He is going to be a career minor leaguer that gets calls up to9 fill in when a real NHL player gets hurt. That is all he is.


I guess time will tell which of us is right.

There aren't too many career minor leaguers who lead their team in scoring over 2 seasons.






#95 Probie

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

Tatar is a good prospect a slightly bigger and
Much faster version of hudler but better defensively. Tatar might not break 65 points in the NHL but at worst he'll be a 40 point player that will hustle his ass off and bring a great attitude to the rink. we knew when we drafted him he was going to have to wait a while to physically mature and polish his defensive game which he focussed on this season which is why his offense remained around the same. Next year he improves offensive game and still carries his new found defensive game with him. I do think with all our soon to be playing prospects that are too smal someone or More then one needs to be moved. I also think we need to jettison a few of our current bottom six players we have too many redundant players.

#96 Richdg

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:12 AM

If you pay so little attention to the Wings that you think Zetterberg played the wing this year, why should any of us take your opinion of our farm team any more seriously? From your assessment of prospects in the NHL the only ones that count are ones that will become an elite talent.

I'm not saying Tatar will be our future #1 left winger. I think he'll be a great 3rd line left winger, or a good 2nd line winger once he gets a little stronger and that he's more valuable to the franchise than either Emmerton or Mursak.



Really?
http://redwings.nhl.....htm?id=8468083

what does that link say? If I understand English correctly it says Zetterberg is a LW. he was a LW on Dat's line and he was the LW on Filppula's line. Granted he did take faceoffs. So what. He always has.

I guess time will tell which of us is right.

There aren't too many career minor leaguers who lead their team in scoring over 2 seasons.







Good prospects don't Play in the AHL for 3 years. 1 (if that long) and done. BTW, just to compare, Abdelakter had 52 points in his only full season in GR. So from a numbers alone standpoint, Tatar is Abdelakader offensively but 3 inches shorter and 35 pounds lighter.

Tatar is a good prospect a slightly bigger and
Much faster version of hudler but better defensively. Tatar might not break 65 points in the NHL but at worst he'll be a 40 point player that will hustle his ass off and bring a great attitude to the rink. we knew when we drafted him he was going to have to wait a while to physically mature and polish his defensive game which he focussed on this season which is why his offense remained around the same. Next year he improves offensive game and still carries his new found defensive game with him. I do think with all our soon to be playing prospects that are too smal someone or More then one needs to be moved. I also think we need to jettison a few of our current bottom six players we have too many redundant players.



Tatar, Emmerton, Muarsk, etc..... are all the same guy. yes they work hard. But just not enough of any one thing to set them apart from a dozen others. These are not really prospects. They are filler. Which yes in the day of a salary cap, you need. But none of these guys are the next stars of our team. We lack those in our youth. Nothing there but journeymen.

#97 FlashyG

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:46 PM

Really?
http://redwings.nhl.....htm?id=8468083

what does that link say? If I understand English correctly it says Zetterberg is a LW. he was a LW on Dat's line and he was the LW on Filppula's line. Granted he did take faceoffs. So what. He always has.



Just because the Red Wings website lists him as a Winger doesn't override the fact that he played center almost all season. If you watched the games you'd know this.

Good prospects don't Play in the AHL for 3 years. 1 (if that long) and done. BTW, just to compare, Abdelakter had 52 points in his only full season in GR. So from a numbers alone standpoint, Tatar is Abdelakader offensively but 3 inches shorter and 35 pounds lighter.



You keep trying to move the goal posts....I'm not saying he's going to be an elite player in the league, I think he'll be a good 3rd line player. He's developing better than Abdelkader has and Abby is already an NHL player. Sounds like you're already conceding he'll be more than a career minor leaguer.

Tatar, Emmerton, Muarsk, etc..... are all the same guy. yes they work hard. But just not enough of any one thing to set them apart from a dozen others. These are not really prospects. They are filler. Which yes in the day of a salary cap, you need. But none of these guys are the next stars of our team. We lack those in our youth. Nothing there but journeymen.


This is your problem right here, if they aren't the next Claude Giroux or Pavel Datsyuk they are all the same and they suck...nothing more than filler etc.
Not every draft pick is going to be a superstar, and you will never have a team full of them, these "journeymen" players are integral to every team in the league.

If you really think Tatar doesn't have any more offensive upside than Mursak or especially Emmerton then I don't know what to say other than...Don't ever go into scouting.



#98 Richdg

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

Just because the Red Wings website lists him as a Winger doesn't override the fact that he played center almost all season. If you watched the games you'd know this.



You keep trying to move the goal posts....I'm not saying he's going to be an elite player in the league, I think he'll be a good 3rd line player. He's developing better than Abdelkader has and Abby is already an NHL player. Sounds like you're already conceding he'll be more than a career minor leaguer.



This is your problem right here, if they aren't the next Claude Giroux or Pavel Datsyuk they are all the same and they suck...nothing more than filler etc.
Not every draft pick is going to be a superstar, and you will never have a team full of them, these "journeymen" players are integral to every team in the league.

If you really think Tatar doesn't have any more offensive upside than Mursak or especially Emmerton then I don't know what to say other than...Don't ever go into scouting.



So let me get this straight. You, some unkown poster on an opinion forum knows better than the Offical Red Wings site? Ok. Cool. Just wanted to be clear.

I am not moving any post whatsoever. Abby is a much better player than tatar all teh way around. he is bigger, faster, tougher, and if a true 3rd/4th line guy. tatar is not. Never will be. He is but one of many faceless organizational players that every team has. he has no trade value and he will never amount to anything at the next level. Doesn't mean he doesn't work or is a bad guy, it only means he isn't good enough.

Please stop with the stupid "if you ever watched" comments. They just make you look silly. I have been watching the RW since before you were a gleem in your daddy's eye. I went to games at Olympia. Watched the Wings on PASS. The RW's are not something new to me. Heck I look back at the days when the RW were lucky to win 20 games per year. it hurts. Don't ever want to see it again.

#99 Rick D

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:11 PM

http://www.mlive.com...enefits_of.html


"You donít attack any more than you do as a center," Filppula said. "But usually as a center you attack against all five guys, or four guys. Now as a winger you have one or two guys ahead of you.

"Being a (winger) you can think more about playing in the offensive zone than you can when youíre a center. At least thatís how I felt when I was playing center, because you were always worried about taking some of the responsibility off the defense."

Zetterberg said that playing the wing is prompting Filppula to shoot more.

Eff Chicago

Eff Boston


#100 FlashyG

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:27 PM

So let me get this straight. You, some unkown poster on an opinion forum knows better than the Offical Red Wings site? Ok. Cool. Just wanted to be clear.



The Red Wings website is run by some unknown guy or girl just like us posters here...they make mistakes and probably don't update the site everytime someone's position gets changed. So yes in this instance it appears I and most people who pay attention to the team are correct about what position Zetterberg and Filppula play.

I am not moving any post whatsoever. Abby is a much better player than tatar all teh way around. he is bigger, faster, tougher, and if a true 3rd/4th line guy. tatar is not. Never will be. He is but one of many faceless organizational players that every team has. he has no trade value and he will never amount to anything at the next level. Doesn't mean he doesn't work or is a bad guy, it only means he isn't good enough.



You're the one who compared the 2 players, in their first full seasons with Grand Rapids Tatar put up more pts than Abby and has shown himself to be the better skater. At the WHC championships playing on a worse team Tatar has out performed Abby again. Bigger and tougher is good for the 4th line, but you don't need 2 checking lines. Tatar will bring much needed offence to the 3rd line when he gets his shot.

Please stop with the stupid "if you ever watched" comments. They just make you look silly. I have been watching the RW since before you were a gleem in your daddy's eye. I went to games at Olympia. Watched the Wings on PASS. The RW's are not something new to me. Heck I look back at the days when the RW were lucky to win 20 games per year. it hurts. Don't ever want to see it again.



You get comments like that because you are seemingly wrong about almost everything you post, and when shown evidence of your errors you continue to argue. Nobody cares how long you've been watching the Wings....You obviously haven't paying much attention or you wouldn't be spouting such ignorant opinions.

Edited by FlashyG, 16 May 2012 - 02:28 PM.






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