60 replies to this topic

[Tr!PoD#19]

Does Semin crash the net, especially during the playoffs?

Nope, but that's not what you pay him for.

[BamaWing]

He crashes the net taunting the goalie after he just top shelfed a beautiful pass from Datsyuk. If Semin is legitamately willing to take a discount to play with Datsyuk. That'd be insane. That still give us room to sign some 3rd/4th liners as well as hopefully Suter

[Dabura]

Someone yesterday brought up that Detroit ought to keep there eye on Tomas Tatar.The response was that Detroit didn't need another 5'10" 180lb forward,well isn't that what Zack Parise is?


Semin 6'2" 209ibs

Not gonna comment on Tatar, as I haven't seen enough of the guy to have a truly informed take on him.

Parise is 5'11, 195. His game's not unlike Helm's - and he's good for ~30 goals a season and clutch posteason performance.

Semin's lazy, often half-interested (at best), not physical, not good for use on the PP or PK - it's a long list. We want to get less lazy, see less floating, be more engaged and aggressive on the forecheck & backcheck and in the corners and in front of the opposition's net, be more defensively responsible, be more committed to winning.

We don't want Semin.

[Nevermind]

Parise is 5'11, 195. His game's not unlike Helm's - and he's good for ~30 goals a season and clutch posteason performance.

Semin's lazy, often half-interested (at best), not physical, not good for use on the PP or PK - it's a long list. We want to get less lazy, see less floating, be more engaged and aggressive on the forecheck & backcheck and in the corners and in front of the opposition's net, be more defensively responsible, be more committed to winning.

We don't want Semin.

Agreed 100%

Semin probably actually has more natural offensive talent than Parise. That doesn't mean s*** though since he's a much, much less effective player because of his lack of grit, work ethic, and defensive awareness. Conversely, Parise has all of these qualities that Semin's lacking...and he has them in spades.

Parise's forecheck alone would be a huge example for this team. He scores the dirty goals around the net. Semin's another perimeter player. We don't want more players like this. I'd rather have gritty, aggressive, 3rd and 4th liners who are hard on the forecheck and tough to play against. At least we'd then be a more well-rounded team.

[Nightfall]

Not gonna comment on Tatar, as I haven't seen enough of the guy to have a truly informed take on him.

Parise is 5'11, 195. His game's not unlike Helm's - and he's good for ~30 goals a season and clutch posteason performance.

Clutch postseason performance?

Parise playoffs: 50GP, 17G, 19A, 36P, 0 +/-, 5 PPG, 3 GWG
Semin playoffs: 51GP, 15G, 19A, 34P, -1 +/-, 5 PPG, 4 GWG

Their playoff numbers are almost identical. I will say that I think that Parise is the better all around player, but when you look at the stats heads up, they are both about equal. Semin's work ethic has been questioned in the past at times, but doesn't that mean he has more upside if he was in a crappy system? If Parise is worth $6 million a season to the Wings, and that would be a discount, maybe Semin would be worth $5 million a season.

[Wingsfan72]

Hello Blue Jackets!

[Jesusberg]

Honestly, if Semin is willing to come to Detroit for 4-5 million, I think that in itself is a reflection of his attitude and desire to win. If he wants money and/or to coast, he only needs to head to the KHL or a bottom feeder team for another 6.7 million dollar contract.

Admittedly, it's a risk and Parise should be priority number one, but I also don't agree that Semin is as bad as people assume he is. He's got a load of offensive talent, and one of the best, pure shots in the league. Perhaps he wants to mature as a player, and that's part of why he's "moving on". It was said (in the Khan article, I think) that he was playing with Backstrom and Ovie, so why would Zetterberg and Datsyuk be much different? Well... maturity, age, leadership and steady team that isn't a revolving door of coaches? A system and team who KNOWS who they are, but perhaps didn't have the talent and speed to push this season?

As I said, Parise's the first priority, but after that I don't think Semin is a terrible option. The guy has a lot of question marks surrounding him, so I'd hope the team wouldn't sign him to a high hit and term, but something not too out of control wouldn't bother me at all. If the team's mission to upgrade Hudler's position means adding Semin, I actually see that as a positive move.

Edited by Jesusberg, 16 May 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[unsaddleddonald]

All good points around.

A little off topic, but we weren't a Zach Parise away from being serious Cup contenders.

Even if we get Parise, that doesn't solve our lack of size problem nor does it COMPLETELY solve our lack of sniper problem (if you ax me, Parise isn't a "pure sniper"). Though that point becomes moot if Franzen settles back in to his "2nd scorer" role that he had in 08 and 09 behind Hank and Hossa. He played well back then....


I have a feeling that the idiot GMs in the NHL are gonna drive up the price of free-agents like they did last year (James Wizniewski "Detroit doesn't pay market value"). Then we will be in a tough spot: Parise cannot make more than Pav....at least i don't think he can.

Edited by unsaddleddonald, 16 May 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Dabura]

Clutch postseason performance?

Parise playoffs: 50GP, 17G, 19A, 36P, 0 +/-, 5 PPG, 3 GWG
Semin playoffs: 51GP, 15G, 19A, 34P, -1 +/-, 5 PPG, 4 GWG

Their playoff numbers are almost identical. I will say that I think that Parise is the better all around player, but when you look at the stats heads up, they are both about equal.

I wasn't yet talking about Semin in the part of my reply that you quoted. But, s*** - I won't pretend I'm not surprised and impressed @ those numbers. (They really are almost identical.) And I won't try to cover myself after the fact and say I was really talking more about all the stuff that doesn't show up on the score-sheet. (I was indeed thinking mainly in terms of about goals, assists, points.)

All things considered, though, I think it's definitely fair to say that Parise is the all-around 'clutchier' playoff performer. With Semin, you're getting one thing and one thing only: goals and assists. Parise brings a boatload more to the fold.

[Dabura]

we weren't a Zach Parise away from being serious Cup contenders.

I think we very possibly were.

Granted, we lost for a number of reasons. (Or, put another way, we sucked on a number of fronts.) But having a guy like Parise in the mix would've made life much easier for us and helped the cause so much.

[ltgator333]

Not gonna comment on Tatar, as I haven't seen enough of the guy to have a truly informed take on him.

Parise is 5'11, 195. His game's not unlike Helm's - and he's good for ~30 goals a season and clutch posteason performance.

Semin's lazy, often half-interested (at best), not physical, not good for use on the PP or PK - it's a long list. We want to get less lazy, see less floating, be more engaged and aggressive on the forecheck & backcheck and in the corners and in front of the opposition's net, be more defensively responsible, be more committed to winning.

We don't want Semin.

Zack Parise and 30 goals aren't going to help you against Nashville or St.Louis ,two the biggest teams in the NHL.Goals was not Detroit's problem during the season.The playoffs they got pushed around.

[wings_fanatic]

We also did not get goals that we needed. Fact is it became extremely apparent that Pavel and Hank need better players to work with. To be honest, I think Kenny should PRESS to get Parise AND Semin and here is why. Parise is not a "Sniper" he is a hard worker who scores all sorts of different kind of goals, therefore I think he would work a lot better playing with Hank then Pavel. But Pavel still needs a legitimate sniper who can score goals and semin would provide that (and he is right handed).

Imagine:

Semin- Datsyuk- Homer
Parise- Zetterberg- Franzen
Cleary- Filpulla- Bertuzzi
Miller- Helm- Abs/Eaves

I know it is wishful thinking, but that would be a much more improved team. ALso, I know many don't like HOmer on the top line, but I feel having him on the top line benefits the team as a whole because he slows down the 4th line, and he can make the top line more effective by retrieving pucks and screening the goalie.

[Dabura]

Zack Parise and 30 goals aren't going to help you against Nashville or St.Louis

Do we need to get bigger and tougher? Yes.
Do we need a legitimate goal-scoring threat? Yes.
Do we [insert any one of our numerous other issues]? Yes.

So many people here seem to honestly believe it all boils down to one thing. "We lost to the Predators because [insert one thing]." I know we all have our axes to grind. I know we all have our pet gripes with the team (or else, with the people who have pet gripes with the team). But let's be fair and objective.

Edited by Dabura, 16 May 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Nightfall]

I wasn't yet talking about Semin in the part of my reply that you quoted. But, s*** - I won't pretend I'm not surprised and impressed @ those numbers. (They really are almost identical.) And I won't try to cover myself after the fact and say I was really talking more about all the stuff that doesn't show up on the score-sheet. (I was indeed thinking mainly in terms of about goals, assists, points.)

All things considered, though, I think it's definitely fair to say that Parise is the all-around 'clutchier' playoff performer. With Semin, you're getting one thing and one thing only: goals and assists. Parise brings a boatload more to the fold.

I do agree with you. The kind of work ethic you describe, about going into the corners, is possessed by Parise. I believe he has that kind of hard nosed work ethic that I saw through the season, playoffs, and even the olympics. At the same time though, for every great thing I think about Parise, I also think about his injury that he sustained that knocked him out for a balance of the season last year. I also look at the identical numbers and think that Semin could be a better bargain for the Wings at $5 million a season than Parise at $6 million (if the numbers worked out like that).

Here is how I think about it.

Semin pluses: Has raw skill, stays healthy
Semin minues: Work ethic issues

Parise pluses: Works hard in the corners, has skill
Parise minues: Is his knee healthy?

At one point in time, I was thinking "no way" on Semin. Now, just looking at the numbers, and the possible upswing, I like the possibilities of having him. Parise would be my first choice, but Semin would be a worthy addition at $5 million a season.

[brett]

i dont care for him.

though a franzen datsyuk semins line is pretty heavy if they show up

[LeftWinger]

Hey, lets be careful not to mention Semin in the Semin thread ok guys? Seems the Semin police are out there...or is that semen kip?

[Drake_Marcus]

lol painfully soft, inconsistent, wants to be paid for the seasons he had 3 years ago and not his latest seasons, f*** NO.

[Buppy]

All good points around.

A little off topic, but we weren't a Zach Parise away from being serious Cup contenders.

Even if we get Parise, that doesn't solve our lack of size problem nor does it COMPLETELY solve our lack of sniper problem (if you ax me, Parise isn't a "pure sniper"). Though that point becomes moot if Franzen settles back in to his "2nd scorer" role that he had in 08 and 09 behind Hank and Hossa. He played well back then....


I have a feeling that the idiot GMs in the NHL are gonna drive up the price of free-agents like they did last year (James Wizniewski "Detroit doesn't pay market value"). Then we will be in a tough spot: Parise cannot make more than Pav....at least i don't think he can.

We are no more than "playing well" away from being a serious contender. For most of the season we were near the top of the standings, near the top in GF and GA. That wasn't a fluke or luck. We have issues, as every single team in the league does every single season. It is not possible to put together a team that is too good to lose. By far the most important factor in the playoffs is just playing well. Of course you need talent, and we already have that. Build of the roster or style of play means very little. Whatever you do, you have to do well. Better than your opponent does whatever they do.

We could add Parise, Suter, Gaustad, Moen, bring Nick and Helm back, trade Franzen for Perry, trade Miller for Dustin Brown, add whatever goon and a couple big bruising defensemen for the third pair, and whatever else everyone says we "need"...and if we don't play well, we'll still likely lose in the first round.

Of course, we should still try to get better, both in raw talent and versatility of style. But we don't need a complete overhaul, and the season won't be over if we miss out on all the prize free agents.

[Red Wings Addict]

I have a feeling that the idiot GMs in the NHL are gonna drive up the price of free-agents like they did last year (James Wizniewski "Detroit doesn't pay market value"). Then we will be in a tough spot: Parise cannot make more than Pav....at least i don't think he can.

Zetterberg makes a little over a mil more than Pav. He has since 10-11. His cap hit isn't higher but so far the money he actually receives is more. After 12-13, Z will make 7.5 mil for another four years.

I believe that gives some kind of standard by which the Wings will try to abide if the Wings somehow pull off another lifetime contract for Parise. In that situation I feel like they would aim for an ideal (to say the least) cap hit in between Z's and Pav's.

[Nightfall]

We are in for a long wait for free agent signings anyway. They have to hash out a new CBA first before we see any news. Going to be a long summer from the way it looks. I just hope they can work out a deal before September.