2012 Lockout Watch

[Barrie 900]

dont you think, this guy - Doanld Fehr - at least worth mentioning too? Those MFs, unions are ruining it first hand!!

Baseball's got things under control, and Fehr was a part of that. The NHL needs Fehr!

It's not about how much money the players make, it's about the system that's in place. To many people look ONLY at the players salaries.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Barrie

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

IMHO, there is blame on both sides.

The players and agents are using loopholes in the current CBA to force teams to sign these players to long term deals. The owners are equally at fault for signing those deals. The Red Wings have already been forced to sign Franzen to a long term deal that he could have gotten somewhere else. The owners and GMs want to field great teams, and its hard to do when a couple players are handcuffing the team for 10-15 years in some cases.

As evidenced in any professional sport, if there is a loophole like this and it is exploited by the players, there will be a couple dumbass owners who will sign them. Hell, just a couple months ago, the Red Wings nation was dying to get Suter for 12 years and $80 million, and if Holland couldn't get it done then its his fault. Thats just evidence of a damaged system.

That being said, I am disappointed with Bettman's stance on this. I would hope they would have continued negotiating without a lockout. Now, he wants a lockout if its not done in 5 weeks. Good luck I suppose. I hope there are plenty of late night bargaining sessions scheduled for 5 weeks.

The thing is, in spite of the league making record revenues the owners want a huge reduction in salary by the players. Their biggest requests have little to do with remedying these massive contract lengths and cap hits. Most of their demands are just a money grab. They don't address any of the loopholes.

If there's a third lockout, Bettman should absolutely 100% lose his job. Yes it takes two to tango, but all three stoppages have been lockouts by management, not strikes. And this should be the easiest one to settle of all of them. Bettman has zero diplomacy skills and sets a hostile tone from the get go.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

If there is another lockout, things that need to happen:

1. fire Minime - owners of O 6 teams and other big markets will get impatient with this ***** you can't have three lockouts and keep your job.

2. hire a guy with a hockeybackground or at least some negotiation skills

3. stop the sunbelt experiment it failed

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

If there is another lockout, things that need to happen:

1. fire Minime - owners of O 6 teams and other big markets will get impatient with this ***** you can't have three lockouts and keep your job.

2. hire a guy with a hockeybackground or at least some negotiation skills

3. stop the sunbelt experiment it failed

I agree with the O 6 owners statement...they're going to get pissed, if they aren't already. Owners are crying that they're not making any money...really?? the Wild sign 2 guys 10 years combined salary of $196MIL while Nashville signed Weber to the franchise's LARGEST contract @ 14yrs $110MIL and Carolina signs Alex Semins to a 1 year deal worth $7MIL (he's only worth MAYBE $4MIL a year). In the new CBA, that is being hammered out, the owners want the to lower the "revenue" from 57% to 46%??

Let's make 3.3 billion and then lock everybody out the following year....the NHL's biggest problem: Gary Bettman. Better yet...let give Gary Bettman until 16Sep to pack his s***, get out of the NHL, and go back to the NBA where he came from. Bettman has been the commish for 20 years and is looking to have 3 lockouts on his hands.

THIS JUST IN ON TWITTER:

Hockeyy Insiderr‏@HockeyyInsiderr

#LEAFS offer for Getzlaf: 2013 1st rd+Grabovski+Kadri+Frattin. #NHLDucks have 72 hours to accept the deal or @LeafsBB20 withdraws it

Hockeyy Insiderr‏@HockeyyInsiderr

Reason why Burke pulls out offer after 72 hrs is this is the MAX #Leafs are ready to pay for Getzlaf. No counter offer possible

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

This is how Uncle Gary "negotiates".

This why he is "good" for the League.

That last part gushes with sarcasm.

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

Last time I checked NHL players are not paid as much as the NFL, NBA or MLB.....so what's next?

If you mean "control" as in a handful of teams (the big fish) will contend for the championship in MLB while many teams serve as a feeding system, or farm club (the little fish) - then I agree with you.

The reality is that the NHL (Bettman, and some BOG members) love the idea of having small market teams, or teams with a small fanbase go far into the playoffs.

"small market teams, or teams with a small fanbase"...you refering to Bettmans success story the Nashville Preds?

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

Ownership of the O6 (Original 6) teams should put their foot down and tell Bettman how it is GOING to be, since they're the backbone of the NHL. I'm sure Wings ownership, Mr. Illitch, having a huge ownership in more than just 1 sports team would have alot of clout and probably tell off Bettman whuile he jabs that knife in is back with a smile.

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=639507&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

This caught my attention: Commissioner Bettman said that while the League is willing to increase its revenue sharing "in a variety of ways that we proposed," revenue sharing is not the key element of the negotiations for the League. He said that the owners' fundamental proposal "relates to the fact that we need to be paying out less in player costs." Well you know what...THAT'S THE OWNERS PROBLEM! If that's an issue then lower the salary cap.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

This is outright embarrassing - the prospect of the 3rd lockout in a professional sports league in the last 20 years.

[evilmrt 636]

Damn it. Are you kidding me? Bettman and the owners (surely not Mr. I!!!) trying to play hardball with the NHLPA with only a month and some change left until the lockout hits on September 15th. I wasn't so concerned until I read The Globe and Mail tonight:

Bettman stripped away that optimism on Thursday. He may have softened the blow by saying he still thinks there is time to make a deal but think about this – the only ones with an appetite for shutting down the league are the owners. Fehr and the players have always talked about playing this fall even if there is no new agreement. Forget that, Bettman and the owners finally said out loud Thursday.

The fact the NHL was able to bounce back with seven consecutive years of revenue growth after wiping out an entire season convinced many owners they can do it again. With the players better educated this time around and more determined it is not a recipe for a full season.

The NHL will bounce back, but it will lose far too much. Some of the weaker teams might actually fold. Fans will abandon the league by the masses. Many european players will jump ship and go to the euro leagues. It took years for the NHL to recover from the last lockout....the owners are making a giant mistake.

The article ends with what we should start expecting:

Finally, the optimists also like to say no one, especially the owners, wants a lockout to wipe out the Winter Classic on Jan. 1. This is now one of the most important events on the NHL calendar, both from a revenue and public-relations standpoint, so the owners will settle in time to save it.

But if you are Fehr and the players and the owners refuse to bend on revenue-sharing then it would only make sense to stay out as Jan. 1 approaches.

No one should count on seeing any NHL games before the new year.

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

Damn it. Are you kidding me? Bettman and the owners (surely not Mr. I!!!) trying to play hardball with the NHLPA with only a month and some change left until the lockout hits on September 15th. I wasn't so concerned until I read The Globe and Mail tonight:

The NHL will bounce back, but it will lose far too much. Some of the weaker teams might actually fold. Fans will abandon the league by the masses. Many european players will jump ship and go to the euro leagues. It took years for the NHL to recover from the last lockout....the owners are making a giant mistake.

The article ends with what we should start expecting:

Here is the sticking point:

However, if the offer is examined closely it is far worse than simply a lowball opening position. In addition to cutting the rate of the players’ share of revenue to 46 per cent, the owners also want to redefine the hockey-related revenue (HRR) so there is much less in the pot, which reduces the real percentage of the players’ share to 43. In dollars, that’s a $450-million (all currency U.S.) haircut from the $1.88-billion the players received from the NHL’s preliminary estimate of its $3.3-billion in HRR from the 2011-12 season. The owners also want to increase the eligibility for free agency to 10 years, putting it beyond the reach of the average NHL player, to eliminate salary arbitration and impose five-year limits on player contracts.

1. Free agency eligibility increase to 10 years? are you freaking serious??!

2. Eliminate salary arbitration??!! Are you freaking serious??!!

3. 5 year limit on player contracts??!! are you freaking serious??!!

I'd tell the owners and Bettman to screw off and forego the season. I hope the players stick to their guns on this.

If the owners are going to be this freaking stupid then just lower the salary cap.

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

Eliminate salary arbitration = holding players hostage...that's the bottom line.

10 year free agency- most players are lucky to play 2-5 years in the NHL, never mind 10. Eliminating salary arbitration, well what can I say...ridiculous. 5 year contract limit- Funny, isn't a contract between the team and the player so the owners, if they wanted, can exercise this anyways by not offering anything longer then 5 years but they are so greedy trying to lock up players long term. Look at the Parise and Suter contract signed just weeks ago. The only thing more ridiculous then these issues are the "no trade clauses" in contracts. Guess the owners were "forced" to pay these players all those "bonus monies." THE OWNERS AND GM'S ARE THEIR OWN WORST ENEMY, NOT THE NHLPA.

If owners would grow a set of balls and say "we'll pay you X number of years for X number of $$, up front, and say if you don't like it we'll pay someone else this or we'll pay our AHL players this." The owners are the ones who got themselves in this mess.

[chances14 227]

Eliminate salary arbitration = holding players hostage...that's the bottom line.

10 year free agency- most players are lucky to play 2-5 years in the NHL, never mind 10. Eliminating salary arbitration, well what can I say...ridiculous. 5 year contract limit- Funny, isn't a contract between the team and the player so the owners, if they wanted, can exercise this anyways by not offering anything longer then 5 years but they are so greedy trying to lock up players long term. Look at the Parise and Suter contract signed just weeks ago. The only thing more ridiculous then these issues are the "no trade clauses" in contracts. Guess the owners were "forced" to pay these players all those "bonus monies." THE OWNERS AND GM'S ARE THEIR OWN WORST ENEMY, NOT THE NHLPA.

If owners would grow a set of balls and say "we'll pay you X number of years for X number of $$, up front, and say if you don't like it we'll pay someone else this or we'll pay our AHL players this." The owners are the ones who got themselves in this mess.

general managers competitive instincts will always trump financial instincts

[Esquire 324]

When, not if, the players get locked out, it will officially mark the end of my support of the NHL.

I'm 30 years old and I live in Southern Ontario, so if the NHL feels the need to stop work then I can more than compensate with the OHL at far more reasonable prices. There is no justifyable reason for me to come back to a league that clearly has no regard for its fans and eats itself alive.

And for the record, I'm not giving up or abandoning the Detroit Red Wings, I'm giving up on the league they play in.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Bullies come in all shapes and sizes.

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

Once again arrogance being the key word in this issue! The owners think that since the league recovered so well after the last work stoppage, they can turn around and do it again. I seriously doubt they will, and being a passionate hockey person, hope they never recover if they try this nonsense again.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Once again arrogance being the key word in this issue! The owners think that since the league recovered so well after the last work stoppage, they can turn around and do it again. I seriously doubt they will, and being a passionate hockey person, hope they never recover if they try this nonsense again.

I fully agree with this I am sure some of the more respected owners such as our own Mr. I aren't happy with the way, this is going. Minime needs to be fired and if teams can't survive with revenue-sharing well either spend less, relocate or fold em.

A league with 20 profitable teams is berr than one with 30, were at least 10 are losing money.

Minime and his *****.... are seeing $ in their eyes again they think playing hardball with the players/fans will again get them, what they want. Glad Fehr has the job he will play hardball too, for months we have heard how the NHL is breaking record after record and now players should give in again? This is ludachrist and in my mind Buttman should be help accountable.

I think I will watch SEL, AHL and maybe some other "lesser" leagues if there is another lockout, no way I'll stop watching hockey. Hope the fans will side with the players and not come back if there is indeed another lockout, so the NHL won't pull this s*** again in 5 years, sorry for swearing but it is frustrating as a fan.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Interesting tidbit here:

Allan Walsh

‏

@

walsha

The average NHL ticket price has increased 39% since 2004 when Gary Bettman promised fans a salary cap would lower ticket prices.

https://twitter.com/...925357202444288

Edited August 10, 2012 by ogreslayer

[BostonBruinsDan1924 53]

Interesting tidbit here:

[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]

https://twitter.com/...925357202444288

I was wondering when someone was going to say something about that. I wasn't sure about the numbers side.

[Rivalred 630]

I will say this, it make take me sometime to comeback to hockey if there is another lockout.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Here is the sticking point:

However, if the offer is examined closely it is far worse than simply a lowball opening position. In addition to cutting the rate of the players’ share of revenue to 46 per cent, the owners also want to redefine the hockey-related revenue (HRR) so there is much less in the pot, which reduces the real percentage of the players’ share to 43. In dollars, that’s a $450-million (all currency U.S.) haircut from the $1.88-billion the players received from the NHL’s preliminary estimate of its $3.3-billion in HRR from the 2011-12 season. The owners also want to increase the eligibility for free agency to 10 years, putting it beyond the reach of the average NHL player, to eliminate salary arbitration and impose five-year limits on player contracts.

1. Free agency eligibility increase to 10 years? are you freaking serious??!

2. Eliminate salary arbitration??!! Are you freaking serious??!!

3. 5 year limit on player contracts??!! are you freaking serious??!!

I'd tell the owners and Bettman to screw off and forego the season. I hope the players stick to their guns on this.

If the owners are going to be this freaking stupid then just lower the salary cap.

Great post.

Not many people are talking about how they want to redefine what constitutes hockey related revenue. So like you said, the owners are changing the definition so more money goes in their pockets while at the same time asking for a much bigger percentage of what's left.

And the other demands are so idiotic it's hard to believe they wanted to do anything other than piss off the NHLPA. Yes it's a negotiation, but when your bid is that outlandish you may just offend the other side and sour the deal.

This is a massive money grab by the owners as they apparently are intent on breaking the union again.

[TheXym 2,606]

The poison dwarf is living up to his name. I guess he wants ticket prices to mirror gas prices. A third lockout is beyond grossly unacceptable. The forced socialism of the cap isn't working, other than to punish the franchises that can make money. If you are depending on revenue sharing to maintain your franchise, you have absolutely no frakking business offering mega deals to free agents then crying poverty in CBA negotiations. If you can't legitimately afford it, don't expect others to bail you out.

Heck, I'd LOVE to drive a Lamborghini, but since I'm a teacher, not a doctor or lawyer, or professional athlete, it's not happening unless I get lucky with a powerball ticket or, like some of these owners, over extend myself or outright lie on the credit app. And when I can't make the payments, there isn't a bailout or revenue sharing. If that means certain well-run franchises have a better shot at the cup, so be it. Spending more is by no means a guarantee for a championship.

Maybe a luxury tax/soft cap system would be better, but the owners like Mr. Ilitch who can actually run a franchise should speak up. Sadly, there are some owners who apparently need to be saved from themselves.

The Wings sucked and sucked hard for a long time before the Ilitches bought the franchise. Good management paved the way for the rise to prominence and excellence.

[Nightfall 871]

Great post.

Not many people are talking about how they want to redefine what constitutes hockey related revenue. So like you said, the owners are changing the definition so more money goes in their pockets while at the same time asking for a much bigger percentage of what's left.

And the other demands are so idiotic it's hard to believe they wanted to do anything other than piss off the NHLPA. Yes it's a negotiation, but when your bid is that outlandish you may just offend the other side and sour the deal.

This is a massive money grab by the owners as they apparently are intent on breaking the union again.

Just wait until the players come back with their lowball offer. So far, we haven't seen the players offer yet, and I know they are going to try to lowball the league. The best case would be for Fehr to look at the situation and come forward with a plan that benefits everyone. Such as a 50/50 split on revenues, a luxury cap system, and so on. Instead, I already know that Fehr isn't going to do that because one lowball offer deserves another. Everyone already hates Bettman and the league. Fehr doesn't need brownie points.

This is a two way street here. Both sides have to get a deal done for it to work. If a deal doesn't get done, both sides are a fault PERIOD.

[Esquire 324]

This is a two way street here. Both sides have to get a deal done for it to work. If a deal doesn't get done, both sides are a fault PERIOD.

[Electrophile 3,554]

If the season is locked out, Bettman should lose his job. Plain and simple. That would be the 3rd work stoppage during his tenure, which would effectively kill the sport dead in the United States. It's already swimming against the tide in relation to baseball, basketball, and football, and if the season is shortened by any significant duration (half or more), there's no point in anyone aside from the die hards to continue watching. The die hards are already by my guesstimate, 3/4ths of the audience anyway. That 1/4 that are "casual observers" will be gone, and it won't matter.

So Bettman better hope there isn't a lockout, or else he can kiss his job goodbye. In the event he does get a Shanaban levied on him, is there anyone who can act as interim commish until another one is appointed/elected/promoted?