2012 Lockout Watch

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

A subcommittee is meeting today, but Fehr and Bettman won't be at a meeting together until next Wednesday.

http://www.tsn.ca/wi...tory/?id=403156

Has any other pro sport had three lockouts in a row every time the CBA expired?

Sure hasn't.

I just read that article too. I'll quote some things i really liked from it...

Quote: With NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHL Players' Association head Donald Fehr not scheduled to sit across from one another until the middle of next week and the sides unable to even agree on the core issues that need to be addressed, a sense of uneasiness has suddenly enveloped the talks.

Solution: PUSH THE MEETING DATE UP! Gee, i'm smart and stuff. Meet on the weekend or have a conference call. Not hard.

Quote: At that point, the league and its players' association will have just 24 days left to reach a new agreement and avoid a lockout.

Solution: Then don't wait until there's only 18 days left to act like adults and do some real negotiating.

Quote: But where do they start? There is very little common ground between the proposals each side has put forth and neither seems particularly willing to move off its current position.

Solution: Point form, what does each side want. Don't be afraid to take the fans into consideration as well...after all, we pay ALL of their paychecks. No endorsements either if there's no fans. We want hockey and we have a pretty decent idea of what's fair.

Quote: Under the proposal put forward by the owners in July, the players' share in revenue would be cut from 57 per cent to 43 per cent -- meaning the salary cap would drop to roughly $55 million next season, or just a little above where the floor currently rests.

Solution: If you want to drop the salary cap 14 million every time the CBA expires, then quit raising it 3 million every year.

Quote: The players are still smarting after being locked out for an entire season in 2004-05 before eventually accepting a 24 per cent rollback on salaries and a salary cap. At the time, Bettman repeatedly talked about the need for "cost certainty" to keep the league healthy -- something the union eventually capitulated to.

Solution: The players already got rolled back 24% last time and somehow salaries got out of control again. Maybe Owners should tell their GM's what they're willing to pay and we won't have so many 20 goal scorers at 4+ million.

Quote:

NHL's proposal@

Salary cap: $55.3 million

Salary floor: $39.3 million

NHLPA's proposal@

Salary cap: $69 million

Salary floor: $53 million

Solution: The players seem willing to give some money back, but why should they have to roll back just as much as last time? The owners sign the paychecks and hand them out and now they don't want to live with them....don't give them out in the first place.

That was fun.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Uncle Gary has underestimated his adversary. This a new NHLPA and his propensity of being a "bully" will not work this time.

Edited August 17, 2012 by cusimano_brothers

[FlashyG 1,799]

Uncle Gary has underestimated his adversary. This a new NHLPA and his propensity of being will not work this time.

It doesn't really matter who the players hire to represent them. Ultimately a lock-out hurts the players financially more than it does the owners.

They can play hardball now but once they go a few months without getting paid their regular salaries they will end up accepting another league friendly deal.

[Nightfall 871]

What I want to know is, why aren't the sides getting together with their leadership? I know that Fehr is traveling, but by the time they meet next week, we are going to be 3 weeks away from camps opening. It just seems to me that both sides are just lollygagging around. Where is the sense of urgency? If I was in charge of either side, I would have my calendar clear and ready to negotiate.

[Dabura 12,207]

They should all be locked in a room together with no food or water. They can haz cheeseburgers when we can haz NHL season.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Uncle Gary has underestimated his adversary. This a new NHLPA and his propensity of being will not work this time.

Huh?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

What I want to know is, why aren't the sides getting together with their leadership? I know that Fehr is traveling, but by the time they meet next week, we are going to be 3 weeks away from camps opening. It just seems to me that both sides are just lollygagging around. Where is the sense of urgency? If I was in charge of either side, I would have my calendar clear and ready to negotiate.

Agreed.

Fehr is apparently traveling to several cities to meet with players and suggested that the union and league could meet without the two heads being there, but the reality is there's no way they'd be able to hammer out a deal without the him and Bettman in the room.

It's another game of chicken and it's the fans who lose.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Both the NBA and the NFL labor talks went down to the wire, that's just how these things work. Meaningful negotiations in Congress do the same thing. The fans have not lost a single thing yet, and would probably do well to lose a little of the collective anxiety this whole thing is producing. Ever wonder why there are waaaaay more trades at the deadline than there are during the season? Because nobody has to make a tough decision until the deadline. Take a deep breath gents.

[uk_redwing 495]

Association Football has no CBA's. Don't understand why American sports need them!

Let them play hockey.

[Nightfall 871]

Agreed.

Fehr is apparently traveling to several cities to meet with players and suggested that the union and league could meet without the two heads being there, but the reality is there's no way they'd be able to hammer out a deal without the him and Bettman in the room.

It's another game of chicken and it's the fans who lose.

I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

[chances14 227]

I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

agreed. this is no reason why these guys shouldn't be negotiating 8 hours a day, 5 days a week right now. the state of the nhl depends on this new cba. another lockout will be devastating

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

Yeah, Fehr is apparently meeting with his constituents, but I'm not sure about what exactly. The most important thing that should be happening is him and Bettman and their crews in a room working on the deal. Instead it seems like a stall tactic on both their parts.

I am definitely impressed with how Fehr conducts himself in front of the media though. He's very articulate and clear about where he disagrees with the league, but I haven't heard do any of the passive aggressive crap Bettman likes to pull.

agreed. this is no reason why these guys shouldn't be negotiating 8 hours a day, 5 days a week right now. the state of the nhl depends on this new cba. another lockout will be devastating

For the money they're paid and the millions of dollars at stake, they should be negotiating a lot longer than 8 hours a day if necessary. But it's the game of chicken.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Well even if the dwarf is the mouthpiece of the owners, he is still acting like a complete idiot. Reminds me on a butthurt child because her dad didn't buy the new Malibu Stasy with a hat...

I think if we are going to have another lockout, the media will be calling for his head and finally force the owners hand. Fehr and the NHLPA has done a great job so far, I am really impressed with them and no, they won't roll over again the league is showing record revenues so why not keep the status quo?

[Nightfall 871]

Yeah, Fehr is apparently meeting with his constituents, but I'm not sure about what exactly. The most important thing that should be happening is him and Bettman and their crews in a room working on the deal. Instead it seems like a stall tactic on both their parts.

I am definitely impressed with how Fehr conducts himself in front of the media though. He's very articulate and clear about where he disagrees with the league, but I haven't heard do any of the passive aggressive crap Bettman likes to pull.

For the money they're paid and the millions of dollars at stake, they should be negotiating a lot longer than 8 hours a day if necessary. But it's the game of chicken.

I agree with you. I wasn't all high on Fehr or Bettman when this started. After watching Fehr's speeches on Youtube, I have respect for Fehr. A lot more than Bettman. Still, no bargaining for a week? Both of these guys are in my doghouse right now.

[FlashyG 1,799]

Well even if the dwarf is the mouthpiece of the owners, he is still acting like a complete idiot. Reminds me on a butthurt child because her dad didn't buy the new Malibu Stasy with a hat...

I think if we are going to have another lockout, the media will be calling for his head and finally force the owners hand. Fehr and the NHLPA has done a great job so far, I am really impressed with them and no, they won't roll over again the league is showing record revenues so why not keep the status quo?

As much as I hate Bettman from a fan's perspective I think the Owners love him. He's delivered on everything he's promised them and even another lockout won't bother them as long as in the end they get to keep a larger piece of the pie.

I think the smartest thing Fehr did with his proposal was to include a large amount of revenue sharing into the deal. By doing that he can potentially create a wedge between the teams with big payrolls and those hovering near the floor. That kind of dissension will do more damage to Bettman's reign at the top than anything the media or we as fans can do to him.

[Barrie 900]

Seriously, if there's a lockout I'm starting to wonder how many fans are going to come back? I'm at the point where I'm starting to look for other things to watch and spend my money on starting in October. It's really not worth worrying if a CBA will get done in time, how many games will be missed, if we'll even have a season.

If the NHL is going to lockout players every 8 years, I really don't have to follow it. The Lions are going to have an exciting season, I'll follow the NFL more instead, and just wait out that couple months between the Superbowl and the start of the MLB season. I play the outdoor sports anyway, so Bettman can suck it!

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

If there is a lockout, start supporting your local high school teams, OHL teams, USHL teams, etc. I'm a big Saginaw Spirit fan and that just means I have more money to spend on attending those games.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

"I don't know where Burkie went; he was here just a minute ago."

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

especially when it was the NHL, not the NHLPA that waited until a couple weeks ago to finally table the initial proposal, which was basically insulting to the NHLPA.

If there is a lockout, start supporting your local high school teams, OHL teams, USHL teams, etc. I'm a big Saginaw Spirit fan and that just means I have more money to spend on attending those games.

CHL is awesome. Go to Brandon from time to time to watch the Wheat Kings.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Anyone trying to blame Bettman fully is overreaching. Anyone saying Bettman is just a mouthpiece with no blame is understating. Gary Bettman makes 8M dollars a year to be a mouthpiece? I don't think so. From wiki:

"”6.1 Office of Commissioner, Election and Term of Office The League shall employ a Commissioner selected by the Board of Governors. The Commissioner shall serve as the Chief Executive Officer of the League and is charged with protecting the integrity of the game of professional hockey and preserving public confidence in the League. The Board of Governors shall determine the term of office and compensation of the Commissioner. The Commissioner shall be elected a majority of the Governors present and voting at a League meeting at which a quorum was present when it was convened.“^[1]

In Section 6.3, his duties are spelled out as having "responsibility for the general supervision and direction of all business and affairs of the League", co-ordinates matters between member clubs and serves as the principal public spokesman for the League. The Commissioner also has authority over dispute resolution, League committees, interpretation of League rules, appointment of League staff, NHL financial matters, contracting authority, scheduling, officials and disciplinary powers.^[2] The Commissioner also determines the date and places of Board of Governor meetings."

Bettman has a HUGE influence on the league and isn't just some puppet to be controlled. He is providing a vision for the owner's and furthermore has FAILED at protecting the integrity of the game and preserving confidence in the league.

The worst part of Bettman is the smug look he has on his face when he tells bad news to the fans. He LOVES playing the villain it seems. He isn't bothered by fans booing and doesn't seem to care too much for the sport of hockey at all, which is part of his job description. This is one of the main reasons I hate Bettman so much but all the rest stands alone too.

P.S. if there is a lockout it would be cool if Z went to Brynas to play with Jarnkrok and groom him/develop a friendship. Fil could go play with Pulks in Jokerit to develop chemistry for the future.

Edited August 17, 2012 by dirtydangles

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Anyone trying to blame Bettman fully is overreaching. Anyone saying Bettman is just a mouthpiece with no blame is understating. Gary Bettman makes 8M dollars a year to be a mouthpiece? I don't think so. From wiki:

"”6.1 Office of Commissioner, Election and Term of Office The League shall employ a Commissioner selected by the Board of Governors. The Commissioner shall serve as the Chief Executive Officer of the League and is charged with protecting the integrity of the game of professional hockey and preserving public confidence in the League. The Board of Governors shall determine the term of office and compensation of the Commissioner. The Commissioner shall be elected a majority of the Governors present and voting at a League meeting at which a quorum was present when it was convened.“^[1]

In Section 6.3, his duties are spelled out as having "responsibility for the general supervision and direction of all business and affairs of the League", co-ordinates matters between member clubs and serves as the principal public spokesman for the League. The Commissioner also has authority over dispute resolution, League committees, interpretation of League rules, appointment of League staff, NHL financial matters, contracting authority, scheduling, officials and disciplinary powers.^[2] The Commissioner also determines the date and places of Board of Governor meetings."

Bettman has a HUGE influence on the league and isn't just some puppet to be controlled. He is providing a vision for the owner's and furthermore has FAILED at protecting the integrity of the game and preserving confidence in the league.

The worst part of Bettman is the smug look he has on his face when he tells bad news to the fans. He LOVES playing the villain it seems. He isn't bothered by fans booing and doesn't seem to care too much for the sport of hockey at all, which is part of his job description. This is one of the main reasons I hate Bettman so much but all the rest stands alone too.

Love this post. You forgot to bold that part though. Push the meeting up Gary! We want to watch hockey. Football has too many idiots celebrating when they run for 2 yards, Baseball is really boring aside from home runs, and Basketball...I will not even comment on. Get me somef****** hockey in October. I hate the offseason!

[toby91_ca 620]

Anyone trying to blame Bettman fully is overreaching. Anyone saying Bettman is just a mouthpiece with no blame is understating. Gary Bettman makes 8M dollars a year to be a mouthpiece? I don't think so. From wiki:

"”6.1 Office of Commissioner, Election and Term of Office The League shall employ a Commissioner selected by the Board of Governors. The Commissioner shall serve as the Chief Executive Officer of the League and is charged with protecting the integrity of the game of professional hockey and preserving public confidence in the League. The Board of Governors shall determine the term of office and compensation of the Commissioner. The Commissioner shall be elected a majority of the Governors present and voting at a League meeting at which a quorum was present when it was convened.“^[1]

In Section 6.3, his duties are spelled out as having "responsibility for the general supervision and direction of all business and affairs of the League", co-ordinates matters between member clubs and serves as the principal public spokesman for the League. The Commissioner also has authority over dispute resolution, League committees, interpretation of League rules, appointment of League staff, NHL financial matters, contracting authority, scheduling, officials and disciplinary powers.^[2] The Commissioner also determines the date and places of Board of Governor meetings."

Bettman has a HUGE influence on the league and isn't just some puppet to be controlled. He is providing a vision for the owner's and furthermore has FAILED at protecting the integrity of the game and preserving confidence in the league.

The worst part of Bettman is the smug look he has on his face when he tells bad news to the fans. He LOVES playing the villain it seems. He isn't bothered by fans booing and doesn't seem to care too much for the sport of hockey at all, which is part of his job description. This is one of the main reasons I hate Bettman so much but all the rest stands alone too.

P.S. if there is a lockout it would be cool if Z went to Brynas to play with Jarnkrok and groom him/develop a friendship. Fil could go play with Pulks in Jokerit to develop chemistry for the future.

Yes, he does a lot and has a lot of control, but that can easily be taken away if the owners are not happy with the job he is doing. He's like the president of a corporation....if the Board doesn't like the direction the president is taking, he will be fired by the Board. Bettman doesn't have the ultimate control over things, the board of govenors do. They are happy with him and what he is doing, that's why he is around and being compensated nicely. As soon as the owners feel he is damaging their product or doing something they don't like, he's gone. It's pretty simple.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Yes, he does a lot and has a lot of control, but that can easily be taken away if the owners are not happy with the job he is doing. He's like the president of a corporation....if the Board doesn't like the direction the president is taking, he will be fired by the Board. Bettman doesn't have the ultimate control over things, the board of govenors do. They are happy with him and what he is doing, that's why he is around and being compensated nicely. As soon as the owners feel he is damaging their product or doing something they don't like, he's gone. It's pretty simple.

I never said Gary had control. But in spite of the financials, Bettman has failed in his other duties. NHL reffing and rules have been under huge scrutiny and the integrity of the game being questioned. He HAS failed to preserve public confidence. You always see Bettman providing threats in interviews to fans or owners or players etc rather than calmly saying that he hopes there can be an agreement or whatever. Look at his statement in Winnipeg where he called out the fanbase in an extremely negative way when they got their team back. He lacks the ability to make both sides happy. The job description isn't only to make the owners happy, the game as a whole must please the fans as well.

[Nightfall 871]

especially when it was the NHL, not the NHLPA that waited until a couple weeks ago to finally table the initial proposal, which was basically insulting to the NHLPA.

Just the fact that both sides waited until the final hour to start negotiations, and now one party leader is traveling the US which prevents any real work from being done. As I said, no sense of urgency. I have taken the time to watch a lot of video on Fehr and I like how articulate he is. That doesn't help though if he is out traveling while a lockout is 3+ weeks away. We really are in trouble.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Just the fact that both sides waited until the final hour to start negotiations, and now one party leader is traveling the US which prevents any real work from being done. As I said, no sense of urgency. I have taken the time to watch a lot of video on Fehr and I like how articulate he is. That doesn't help though if he is out traveling while a lockout is 3+ weeks away. We really are in trouble.

Its all a game of chicken. Who panics first. Its going to have to be the owners this time. They have the most to lose in this scenario.