2012 Lockout Watch

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

I am so frustrated that we are even facing this as a possibility (looking more and more like a reality) AGAIN. Absolutely ridiculous.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I am so frustrated that we are even facing this as a possibility (looking more and more like a reality) AGAIN. Absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed.

If we lose hockey games this season, you can pretty much guarantee Bettman will lock players out every chance he gets for as long as he's commissioner.

Last time the owners got the cap, players are not trying to remove that cap, and revenue is through the roof. This should've been the easiest of all CBA renegotiations.

Instead we're 9 days out and the two sides aren't even talking.

[esteef 2,679]

NHL Center Ice subscription cancelled. Let me know when the greed subsides.

esteef

[evilzyme 769]

bettman and the owners plan to meet 9/13 to confirm plans to lockout the season. dont see them.meeting anytime before 9/15...

[55fan 5,133]

This is so stupid. I seriously think Bettman and Co. wanted to take a year off, devised a plan for doing so, and are following it through to fruition. They were responsible for setting the meetings, which they did at the last minute, and ever since then they've had a negative rhetoric about how far apart the two sides are. Then they announced right off the bat that they would not use the option to play another year on the current CBA and they would go for a lockout.

All of this screams bad faith. The initial low-ball offer I can understand from a negotiation point of view even if it reeks of smarmyness <---It's a word because I say so.

I don't see any effort on the part of the league nor any urgency as the deadline approaches. Either they seriously don't want this season to happen or they are posturing, and doing so badly.

[Motown4013 350]

This is so stupid. I seriously think Bettman and Co. wanted to take a year off, devised a plan for doing so, and are following it through to fruition. They were responsible for setting the meetings, which they did at the last minute, and ever since then they've had a negative rhetoric about how far apart the two sides are. Then they announced right off the bat that they would not use the option to play another year on the current CBA and they would go for a lockout.

All of this screams bad faith. The initial low-ball offer I can understand from a negotiation point of view even if it reeks of smarmyness <---It's a word because I say so.

I don't see any effort on the part of the league nor any urgency as the deadline approaches. Either they seriously don't want this season to happen or they are posturing, and doing so badly.

So well said! With you 100 percent.....unreal!

[chances14 227]

pierre lebrun's take on negotiations

http://espn.go.com/n...ate-discussions

This is so stupid. I seriously think Bettman and Co. wanted to take a year off, devised a plan for doing so, and are following it through to fruition. They were responsible for setting the meetings, which they did at the last minute, and ever since then they've had a negative rhetoric about how far apart the two sides are. Then they announced right off the bat that they would not use the option to play another year on the current CBA and they would go for a lockout.

All of this screams bad faith. The initial low-ball offer I can understand from a negotiation point of view even if it reeks of smarmyness <---It's a word because I say so.

I don't see any effort on the part of the league nor any urgency as the deadline approaches. Either they seriously don't want this season to happen or they are posturing, and doing so badly.

let's not forget that the players aren't putting any effort into getting negotations going again either

neither side has shown any urgency. otherwise i agree with the rest of your post

Edited September 6, 2012 by chances14

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

pierre lebrun's take on negotiations

http://espn.go.com/n...ate-discussions

let's not forget that the players aren't putting any effort into getting negotations going again either

neither side has shown any urgency. otherwise i agree with the rest of your post

That's a pretty good article by Lebrun.

Here's another example of why the NHL saying they want to "partner" with the players is such a joke. Aside from wanting to redefine Hockey Related Revenue and reducing players share of revenue, they also want to more firmly establish their decision making and reduce the NHLPA's role.

From the article:

Another potential contentious issue, first reported by Larry Brooks in the New York Post on Wednesday, is the league's proposal to clarify "management rights" in the new CBA to give owners more power in the areas of realignment, schedule-making, playoff format, etc. This comes as a result of the NHLPA blocking the league's attempt to realign the divisions for the 2012-13 season.

...

The league wants the hammer next time it tries to realign.

"What we made clear both in terms of delivering the proposal and then talking about last Friday is we welcome the input, we want to work cooperatively with them and do things jointly to the extent we can, but at the end of the day, somebody has to be able to make decisions," said Daly. "We can't paralyze the business on the basis of no one party having the ability to make a decision. It's our clubs who are the ones opening the buildings and paying for the cost of putting on the games and producing the product to the fans. They should be making those decisions, ultimately."

[Dabura 12,207]

^^^ I was about to make a post about that particular comment. What he - Daly - is saying makes sense, but he comes across as such a dips***.

It's a good article, but it felt to me like Lebrun identified about 90 different issues as THE Core Issue, singular. I'm sure that's just quick, lazy reading on my part, though.

This is all so stupid.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

^^^ I was about to make a post about that particular comment. What he - Daly - is saying makes sense, but he comes across as such a dips***.

It's a good article, but it felt to me like Lebrun identified about 90 different issues as THE Core Issue, singular. I'm sure that's just quick, lazy reading on my part, though.

This is all so stupid.

Agreed.

It's just another case of the league talking out of both sides of its mouth. wanting the players to "partner with us," while we take away more and more of your money and decisionmaking power. "There's no salary rollback, it'll go into an escrow account until the end of the season, where it'll ultimately end up back in the owners' pockets."

It makes sense that the owners would be the major decision maker in schedules and realignment, but Bettman acts like it's a terrible inconvenience to have to check with the union on these things. If he had any diplomacy skills at all he would've involved the players more and the owners wouldn't need more legal reinforcement of their decision-making power. I don't remember hearing about the NHLPA making any unreasonable demands about the realignment, just that they wanted time to look at it and figure out what it meant for their hundreds of constituents who get shipped all over North America 9 months out of the year.

It is all truly so stupid. If we lose another season, I'm not coming back as long as Bettman is commissioner. I love hockey, but there's plenty of other ways I can spend my time and money.

[Dabura 12,207]

Hear, hear!

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

NHL Center Ice subscription cancelled. Let me know when the greed subsides.

esteef

A lockout is inevitable, but I'll play along and act like there's still a chance we see the season start on time. When they announce the lockout, however, I'll absolutely freak out. Both sides are making millions, while millions in the US can't even find jobs at all. Quit acting like a bunch of princesses and play the damn game.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

The NHLPA had already said they would enter a new season while still under the current CBA, while still trying to negotiate a new deal.

How was that received by the owners?

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Seriously BAN this little dwarf from being the commissioner. Like someone stated this should have been the easiest CBA ever and all this moronic little bastard said was "we believe we are paying the player too much, we shouldn't do that":

1. you moronic ***** aren't paying anything

2. the NHL is paying YOU too much money son of a *****

3. revenues are through the roof - want to support your failed franchise-experiments? Do it with your own money you bastard

Again sorry for swearing like that but I am pissed off, we are losing another season because a certain commissioner has absolutely no negotiation skills or passion for hockey. I hope the players stay unit and call the bluff by this little man so hopefully the owners are going to get fed up with him and finally give him the so deserving boot

Players provided two reasonable solutions - just needed some tweaks - the NHL on the other side made one insulting attempt followed up by another.

If we lose this season, I think we as fans should unite and "nuke" the NHL with mails stating that we are not coming back if this rat doesn't get the boot. I am really wondering which owners he actually has on his side? Mr. I can't stand him and I think Sneider isn't a fan either.

Edited September 7, 2012 by frankgrimes

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Donald Fehr, the executive director of the NHL Players' Association, says he stopped drawing a salary on July 1 and a source told The Canadian Press that commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly plan to follow suit if a new agreement can't be reached by Sept. 15.

[esteef 2,679]

Has it already been mentioned that the players who are going to play in other leagues for less money during the lockout only prove the owners point that they are paid too much? or is this just angry fan speak?

esteef

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Has it already been mentioned that the players who are going to play in other leagues for less money during the lockout only prove the owners point that they are paid too much? or is this just angry fan speak?

esteef

Not sure if serious, Malkin will easily make more, same thing applies to Datsyuk and some other Russians.

The owners are the ones giving out such massive contracts, you can't howl with the wolves and then cry poor, the league has been absolutely ridiculous in terms of handeling this CBA process.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Has it already been mentioned that the players who are going to play in other leagues for less money during the lockout only prove the owners point that they are paid too much? or is this just angry fan speak?

esteef

It's flawed logic.

Given the fact the owners are locking them out from playing in the league with which they have a current contract, the players are taking an alternate job somewhere else. It happens often when companies lock out employees. People need to pay bills. That doesn't prove that they are overpaid.

The issue isn't so much "what's the lowest amount the players will accept"(though that's the owners apparent thinking) as much as it is divvying up the billions in revenue the league collects in a way everyone can agree upon.

[sibiriak 84]

Has it already been mentioned that the players who are going to play in other leagues for less money during the lockout only prove the owners point that they are paid too much? or is this just angry fan speak?

esteef

Using the same logic, owners being willing to forgo the revenues proves that they don't really have to charge as much for the tickets? Let's face it, the players would play this game for 100k/year since they are not likely to make even that much in any other job. But every dollar that the players don't get goes into the owners pockets. Personally, I don't really care how much money players make or how much profit the owners get. It's just that when the 2 sides squabble over the division of the money, I tend to sympathize with players because they are the ones I like to watch playing. The owners give out the contracts of their own free will, so I have no sympathy for them.

[esteef 2,679]

People need to pay bills.

I understand what you're saying, but that s*** is funny right there.

esteef

[soonboomer 31]

I've been a Redwings fan since the early '80's..........flown to Chicago, LA, Denver, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, St. Louis and of course, Detroit to watch em play. If there is no hockey this season, I'm done with the sport for good. They can all kiss my ass.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I understand what you're saying, but that s*** is funny right there.

esteef

I was more referring to non-hockey players that get locked out from their jobs. It's not like I meant I was worried hockey players won't be able to eat and pay their utility bills.

Though when you make the income they do, I'm betting many of them have high expenses to go with it. Hopefully they had the sense to save a lot of money preparing for this lockout.

[RippedOnNitro 22]

It's flawed logic.

Given the fact the owners are locking them out from playing in the league with which they have a current contract, the players are taking an alternate job somewhere else. It happens often when companies lock out employees. People need to pay bills. That doesn't prove that they are overpaid.

The issue isn't so much "what's the lowest amount the players will accept"(though that's the owners apparent thinking) as much as it is divvying up the billions in revenue the league collects in a way everyone can agree upon.

I think for either logic a case can be made. Sure they are locked out by the owners and do not get a pay check.

Which means they should find an alternate income (aka playing in another league for less aside from the 1% who could get more).

On the other side when a player makes $2M in the NHL now and they would need to take a 15% paycut to continue playing in the NHL (= $1.7M) or they do not sign a new deal and play for the AHL for $200K. I am basing this amount on capgeek's numbers where AHL contracts are less than 10% of the NHL contracts.

Ofcourse this is based on a one year only period, so you can say the players would prefer to "bleed" one year to get better in the long run.

I think the only solid case is that the ones who will really suffer are the fans and the people who work in/around the stadium etc.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

They're meeting today, yes?

[chances14 227]

They're meeting today, yes?

yes and they are still ongoing. 2hrs and counting