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2012 Lockout Watch

cba lockout

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#381 Buppy

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

I'm on the players side on most parts, but if there's only 11 out of 30 teams in the NHL making a profit then maybe the cap needs to be lowered from 71 mil to about 65 mil to start. The only reason the salary cap has been rising since it was brought in is because of the revenue of those 11 teams turning profits keeping the rest afloat with revenue sharing. The Jets sold out pretty much every game last year and have a 5 year wait list for season tickets, but apparently lost $5mil last year... Granted we have the smallest building in the league here, but that's still not a good sign. If 3000 seats could be added to the MTS Centre, then there would be 12 out of 30 teams turning a profit, but at the same time, if the cap was lowered to $65mil with a modest 7% or so salary roll back then we could see up to 20+ teams turning profits.

The unfortunate thing for some of the NHL teams is that they're in markets that just don't have enough interest in hockey on the whole. Atlanta failed twice, Florida, Columbus, NY Islanders and the worst of all...New Jersey Devils. 3 Stanley Cup championships since 1995 and they still have a mediocre at best fanbase. Guess they can't compete with the Braves, Falcons and Nets. 4 major sports teams in 1 city and they support all teams but the one that actually wins championships. This is where the NHL is failing. It's nice to have a dream of teams all the way across North America, but the southern expansion is killing the NHL cause of lack of interest, and at the end of the day Gary Bettman will be known for 2 things and that is the lockout hat-trick and a failed pipedream of southern expansion.

The latest Forbes figures are from the 2010-11 season. According to that, 12 teams showed a profit. Of the 18 that didn't, Atlanta moved. Revenue in the first year in Winnipeg is rumored to be near $100M. 7 more teams posted revenue of $90M or more (3 had $100M or more).

The Avs posted a $6.1M profit with just $83M in revenue, and the Oilers posted $17.3M with $96M in revenue, despite carrying nearly $100M in debt. The problem is more one of mis-management than player salaries or even bad markets.

#382 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:28 AM

The latest Forbes figures are from the 2010-11 season. According to that, 12 teams showed a profit. Of the 18 that didn't, Atlanta moved. Revenue in the first year in Winnipeg is rumored to be near $100M. 7 more teams posted revenue of $90M or more (3 had $100M or more).

The Avs posted a $6.1M profit with just $83M in revenue, and the Oilers posted $17.3M with $96M in revenue, despite carrying nearly $100M in debt. The problem is more one of mis-management than player salaries or even bad markets.

I don't know enough about the actual financials but a few sources have made reference to owners running the team at a loss while making a killing on their arena. That's what makes things even harder to sort out because accounting at this level gets murky quickly. And the goal is to make money, which isn't the same as looking like you're turning a profit, because that you have to pay taxes on.

#383 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:36 AM

You will have to excuse me, but that is the first time I have heard you levy any kind of criticism against the NHLPA in this thread. I will go back and re-read 19 pages of posts tomorrow just to make sure, and if I am wrong, I will post back here. So far, that is the impression I got from what you have said. I apologize if I got the wrong impression.

As for who the current CBA favors, you are correct. It favors the players and rich franchises. I may even go as far as profitable franchises. Yet, 19 franchises are not even breaking even.

You and I think a lot alike on this issue. Lets hope that there is no lockout or strike and they find a way to make a deal happen in time. I just don't think either side is up for giving up much but they both want everything. That is a bad combination.

I'll make it easy for you. Here's a few excerpts from just the last few pages of the thread.

You even quoted this post:

Fehr is apparently traveling to several cities to meet with players and suggested that the union and league could meet without the two heads being there, but the reality is there's no way they'd be able to hammer out a deal without the him and Bettman in the room.

It's another game of chicken and it's the fans who lose.


Yeah, Fehr is apparently meeting with his constituents, but I'm not sure about what exactly. The most important thing that should be happening is him and Bettman and their crews in a room working on the deal. Instead it seems like a stall tactic on both their parts.



I don't know that the players didn't cover all aspects. I don't agree with it but it sounds like they don't want contract length limited. So there's not going to be a provision offering that.


Well that's very good news that the players are willing to take reduced revenues and not trying to get rid of the hard cap.

Even if it's the only change to contract rules though, they absolutely need to put some limit on length.



#384 Nightfall

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:56 AM

I'll make it easy for you. Here's a few excerpts from just the last few pages of the thread.

You even quoted this post:


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As promised, I stand corrected.
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#385 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:16 PM

At 6:20 my demo of NHL13 was done downloading, I was showered and shaved and ready to go to work, but i had 35 minutes before i had to go to work so i played some hockey. I am one of the passionate fans that cannot deal with another Gary Buttman sponsored lockout. It kinda sucks that i may have 5 seasons of GM mode Red Wings Stanley Cup victories before the 2013 season even starts if it does....I usually only have 1 Cup. :unhappy:

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#386 Nightfall

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:39 AM

I hope Fehr enjoyed his week of travel and Bettman enjoyed his time off while Fehr was gone.

3 weeks until camps open.

Get a deal done!
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#387 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:44 AM

In a perfect "Bettmanland", there would be no union. To him, it's just a nuisance.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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#388 Nightfall

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:58 AM

In a perfect "Bettmanland", there would be no union. To him, it's just a nuisance.

By the end of these negotiations, we shall see if Fehr feels the same way about the union. So far, I cannot rule out that "Fehrland" doesn't exist.
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#389 Shoreline

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:06 AM

Lots of theatre but rest assured three strikes lockouts, the NHL is out. If I watch anymore of this league it will be few and faaar between. No sense in involving myself in a league that s***s all over it's fans. If my birthday comes and the NHL is in yet another lockout, cya.

Hope they get a deal done. They've had more than enough time to me for negotiations.

Edited by Shoreline, 22 August 2012 - 08:10 AM.


#390 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:49 AM

From what I've seen on TSN... ever since Bettman came out with his cold "the players will be locked out if a deal is not in place by Sept. 15," the attitude on the NHLPA side has been seemingly optimistic about getting a deal done in time. I like Fehr's attitude because he talks about a lockout being the last ditch effort to all of this, it's not what the players want. I just hope the owners and Bettman can get their heads out of their b-holes and make some concessions to find some middle ground that both sides can move on with. It's ridiculous. If you just split the share revenues 50/50, that SHOULD be enough to satisfy both sides. The players can still play and I'm sure the owners can still line their pockets as they have over the past 7 years.

At least they're starting to negotiate finer points, instead of the bigger picture now. I never understood that, you know where you are separated on the most, so work that out first and foremost, then the other stuff will fall into place and be a lot easier to negotiate on, without the elephant in the room.

#391 Nightfall

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:09 AM

Lots of theatre but rest assured three strikes lockouts, the NHL is out. If I watch anymore of this league it will be few and faaar between. No sense in involving myself in a league that s***s all over it's fans. If my birthday comes and the NHL is in yet another lockout, cya.

Hope they get a deal done. They've had more than enough time to me for negotiations.

This is part of the reason why I am not dropping $200 a ticket to go to the Winter Classic. I could afford to go, but I won't. Even if they get a deal done on time and they start the season on time, the greed is just disgusting. I will watch it on TV instead.
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#392 Jedi

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:10 PM

Seems like today's CBA meetings were cancelled. Scheduled to resume tomorrow.

Per Chris Johnston, hockey writer for The Canadian Press...

I'm told CBA talks have been cancelled for the day. They're scheduled to resume in the morning.


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#393 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:14 PM


The top executives in the NHL's collective bargaining talks met this morning before the scheduled resumption of formal negotiations.

Two sources say NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly spent about two hours with NHL Players' Association executive director Donald Fehr and his brother Steve Fehr, the union's No. 2 man.


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#394 Jedi

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:27 PM

Interesting that Bettman and Daly had a private meeting with the Fehr brothers. That seems much more like alot of the backdoor meetings that were happening as we closed in on a deal last go-round...

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#395 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:32 PM

By the end of these negotiations, we shall see if Fehr feels the same way about the union. So far, I cannot rule out that "Fehrland" doesn't exist.


Just remember who holds the keys for a lockout.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#396 Nightfall

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:12 PM

Just remember who holds the keys for a lockout.

Just remember who the current deal benefits the most. The players and lucrative clubs. With 18 of 30 teams not making a profit, there is a huge problem with the current deal. I am not surprised that "lockout" is being mentioned, and neither should you.
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#397 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:21 PM

Just remember who the current deal benefits the most. The players and lucrative clubs. With 18 of 30 teams not making a profit, there is a huge problem with the current deal. I am not surprised that "lockout" is being mentioned, and neither should you.

I don't think anyone is surprised lockout is being mentioned given Bettman's history and his readiness to threaten it.

#398 Nightfall

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:44 PM

I don't think anyone is surprised lockout is being mentioned given Bettman's history and his readiness to threaten it.

I agree. Bettman's negotiating tactics are primordial, and thats putting it nicely.
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#399 F.Michael

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:38 PM

Just remember who the current deal benefits the most. The players and lucrative clubs. With 18 of 30 teams not making a profit, there is a huge problem with the current deal. I am not surprised that "lockout" is being mentioned, and neither should you.

Please forgive my laziness, and ignorance, but is there a site that lists the 18 franchises?

Also - is that just "gate receipts", or is the revenue from parking, concessions, etc, etc included?

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#400 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:02 PM

Just remember who the current deal benefits the most. The players and lucrative clubs. With 18 of 30 teams not making a profit, there is a huge problem with the current deal. I am not surprised that "lockout" is being mentioned, and neither should you.


It's called a "Collective Bargaining Agreement"; the word "lockout" isn't there. But, in "Bettmanland"...

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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