905 replies to this topic

[Echolalia]

Bad, bad news, if true:

"It looks like there will be no more negotiations. Owners have already stated that they won't move away from their position. The lockout may be called even earlier than Sept. 15.
"But right now all the guys are already ready for the League to have a work stoppage. The NHLPA is arranging for insurance coverage for everyone, getting ready to make payments. Fehr told everyone in advance, and a lot of players will go to Europe. Maybe to Russia."
-Ilya Kovalchuk, in an interview with Dmitry Chesnokov. Full interview is here

Edited by Echolalia, 22 August 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Jeff6851]

So, in the case of a lockout, how do the contracts work? I would figure they aren't paid but what about years left on a contract?

[BottleOfSmoke]

Bad, bad news, if true:

"It looks like there will be no more negotiations. Owners have already stated that they won't move away from their position. The lockout may be called even earlier than Sept. 15.
"But right now all the guys are already ready for the League to have a work stoppage. The NHLPA is arranging for insurance coverage for everyone, getting ready to make payments. Fehr told everyone in advance, and a lot of players will go to Europe. Maybe to Russia."
-Ilya Kovalchuk, in an interview with Dmitry Chesnokov. Full interview is here

How is that negotiating in good faith? Refusing to let the players play until they cave to every single demand of the owners? I have stayed away from this topic because the whole thing absolutely infuriates me, but this whole strong arm "you'll do what I say when I say or you won't do anything at all" BS is sickening. I'm pissed that I'm most likely going to miss yet another season of the only sport I give two farts about. I'm pissed that I got so excited for the Winter Classic only to have it potentially never come to fruition. But mostly I'm pissed that the rich get richer or take their toys and go home, while the rest of us who pay our hard earned money to support the sport we love continue to get s*** on.


I really hope I'm overreacting and will have a major moment when the season starts on time, but more and more that's seeming increasingly unlikely...

[Nightfall]

Please forgive my laziness, and ignorance, but is there a site that lists the 18 franchises?

Also - is that just "gate receipts", or is the revenue from parking, concessions, etc, etc included?

Here is the article i posted.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2012/05/30/lack-of-economic-parity-could-kill-nhl/

It doesn't list all the franchises, but it does say that 18 are losing money. Thats a lot of franchises. So, while the players are making great money, and 12 of the owners are also happy, there are 18 owners that are in deep trouble. As has been pointed out before, the proposal set forward by Bettman doesn't address the core problem. Same with the proposal by Fehr. Something needs to be done to help the 18 teams for the long haul, and what Bettman or Fehr proposes won't fix that.

[evilmrt]

Something needs to be done to help the 18 teams for the long haul, and what Bettman or Fehr proposes won't fix that.

I'm sorry, I'll have to pick at your statement there. If they're going to have to consider keeping 18 teams afloat, then some sort of "contraction clause" has to be in there, so that another Phoenix Coyotes doesn't happen, all the while siphoning millions off the profitable teams. Possible contraction has to be on the table.

[Nightfall]

I'm sorry, I'll have to pick at your statement there. If they're going to have to consider keeping 18 teams afloat, then some sort of "contraction clause" has to be in there, so that another Phoenix Coyotes doesn't happen, all the while siphoning millions off the profitable teams. Possible contraction has to be on the table.

We are in complete agreement. The issue here is that ownership isn't going to like that. Nevermind that sometimes, people make poor investment choices. Sometimes teams move in order to become profitable again, like the Thrashers move to Winnipeg.

Contraction has to be on the table
Same goes for a luxury tax system and a no cap floor so teams can spend as little as they want

I could go on and on here, but the simple fact of the matter is that both sides don't want to see the issues they have in front of them. One of the sides is just interested in dealing with rollbacks in salaries and limiting contract length. The other is just interested in giving up some salary for the next couple years, and then it ramps back up to 57% again. Neither of these solutions addresses the problem as a whole.

[toby91_ca]

Bad, bad news, if true:

"It looks like there will be no more negotiations. Owners have already stated that they won't move away from their position. The lockout may be called even earlier than Sept. 15.
"But right now all the guys are already ready for the League to have a work stoppage. The NHLPA is arranging for insurance coverage for everyone, getting ready to make payments. Fehr told everyone in advance, and a lot of players will go to Europe. Maybe to Russia."
-Ilya Kovalchuk, in an interview with Dmitry Chesnokov. Full interview is here

Safe to say not much of that has truth to it....considering some of it isn't even legally possible (i.e. lockout before Sep. 15th). No more negotiations? Ummm, they are negotiating today.

[Z Winged Dangler]

I'm sorry, I'll have to pick at your statement there. If they're going to have to consider keeping 18 teams afloat, then some sort of "contraction clause" has to be in there, so that another Phoenix Coyotes doesn't happen, all the while siphoning millions off the profitable teams. Possible contraction has to be on the table.

They are possibly the worst of the bunch, but teams like the Devils, Islanders and a couple others are creeping up awfully close to the Coyotes situation already. I think it's a possibility that Bettman will have to cave and finally move those 3 teams as a starting point. I'm all for the Yotes moving, but teams that actually have a history like like the Isles and Devils i'm not a fan of being moved, but if you have teams like that with no fan support and clearly terrible owners, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

We are in complete agreement. The issue here is that ownership isn't going to like that. Nevermind that sometimes, people make poor investment choices. Sometimes teams move in order to become profitable again, like the Thrashers move to Winnipeg.

Contraction has to be on the table
Same goes for a luxury tax system and a no cap floor so teams can spend as little as they want

I could go on and on here, but the simple fact of the matter is that both sides don't want to see the issues they have in front of them. One of the sides is just interested in dealing with rollbacks in salaries and limiting contract length. The other is just interested in giving up some salary for the next couple years, and then it ramps back up to 57% again. Neither of these solutions addresses the problem as a whole.

3rd paragraph pretty much sums up why we're not going to see hockey this year and why afternoon talks were cancelled yesterday after Buttman's secret squirrel talks.

bolded part....being from Winnipeg, i can see a huge riot in the future. Don't be surprised to see protests in every Canandian city where there's NHL teams.

Just wait for the headlines "What aboot the fans Eh?"

Edited by Z Winged Dangler, 23 August 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[cusimano_brothers]

Right now, Uncle Gary seems more interested in the way penalties are being called than negotiating a contract in good faith.
The little man needs to get his priorities straight.

[drwscc]

Contraction has to be on the table

The NHLPA would never agree to contraction, nor would the BOG. The NHLPA would lose ~30 jobs, and the remaining owners would have to pony up to *buy* the team that they want to contract. "Yeah, yeah," you say, "the league already owns the Coyotes," but I doubt they're going to want to flush away the millions of dollars they have been paying over the past couple of seasons. So then you're talking about the Isles or Devils, and getting those teams out of bankruptcy so you can fold them? Not gonna happen.

[Jedi]

I think we're headed to a lockout. A collection of quotes from Twitter after today's meetings wrapped up...

The Forth Period

Bettman addressing media now. "I think it's fair to say that we're far apart (on contract issues)".

Bettman says real issue isn't revenue sharing, said sides are close in that department...

...Bettman says that "the fundamental economic issue" (player contracts, etc) are providing the biggest gap here.

Bettman says NHL and NHLPA will meet tuesday. He says it's "difficult" to make progress and "get on the same page" on economic issues.

Renaud P Lavoie

Gary Bettman: "we are focus on making a deal...nhlpa wants to keep things the way they are, and that is slowing the process."

And Bettman's worst line of all...
Mark Masters

Bettman on damage lockout could do: 'We recovered last time bc we have the world's greatest fans'

To which George Malik has a great response...

When Bettman tosses off the "Greatest Fans" crap, friends, it's time to worry. And pray.

IMO, it's quotes like the above mentioned that are leading to the NHLPA winning the PR war this time. Bettman, and the NHL by extension, are coming off as iron-clad "My way or the highway" types, while Fehr and the PA are sounding very sensible. As evidenced by...

Mark Masters (again)

Fehr: 'We have a lot to do. I have always believed there's enough time.'

[haroldsnepsts]

Standard Bettman playbook.

"Lockout lockout lockout. Passive aggressive pot shot at the union. We have the greatest fans, that's why I'm able to treat them like s***. Because I know they'll take the abuse and come crawling back for more."


The NHLPA's proposal certainly isn't perfect but it's a starting point. Throw in some contract limits and modify reverting to the current CBA and you're really close to being done.

The NHL's stance is "thanks for all those concessions in 2004 guys, now empty your pockets. This time we promise we'll figure out how to run a successful franchise."

[b.shanafan14]

And the plot thickens.....http://www.mlive.com...ive_200_mi.html

Apparently, the owners have covered their ass with NBC. If there is a lockout (which thanks to Bettman and the owners it looks like there will be), NHL owners will receive $200 million from NBC despite not broadcasting a single game. WTF...

Every time Fehr speaks its "we're trying, there's time, we want to improve the game, etc". Every time Uncle Gary speaks its "this is impossible, no one is listening, the players aren't being reasonable, we're doomed, etc". If that isn't an indication of who the bad guys are, I don't know what is.

[cusimano_brothers]

The NHLPA has a huge advantage in winning the PR war and this angers Uncle Gary terribly.
What we need now is an interview of Uncle Gary by Ron MacLean.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Standard Bettman playbook.

"Lockout lockout lockout. Passive aggressive pot shot at the union. We have the greatest fans, that's why I'm able to treat them like s***. Because I know they'll take the abuse and come crawling back for more."


The NHLPA's proposal certainly isn't perfect but it's a starting point. Throw in some contract limits and modify reverting to the current CBA and you're really close to being done.

The NHL's stance is "thanks for all those concessions in 2004 guys, now empty your pockets. This time we promise we'll figure out how to run a successful franchise."

Not sure what else to say but this....great post. The owners first mistake is trying to lower the cap by 14 million after raising it by 2-3 ish right before the deal expired. They shouldn't have a leg to stand on cause they cut them off themselves since the last CBA which was all their doing and the players just had to accept what the owners and NHL tabled and look how things turned out...

[Echolalia]

Safe to say not much of that has truth to it....considering some of it isn't even legally possible (i.e. lockout before Sep. 15th). No more negotiations? Ummm, they are negotiating today.

They are meeting today, but if one side is refusing to budge on any issues, then they certainly are not negotiating.

[cusimano_brothers]

The two sides in the NHL labour negotiations are hoping to make some progress next week by putting the four main players in the talks in a room together.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly will sit down with players' association executive director Donald Fehr and his brother Steve Fehr, the union's No. 2 man, in a small group session Tuesday.

[frankgrimes]

I wish swearing would be allowed sometimes - don't worry I know it is not but this dwarf can go f*** himself. Sorry to break your ilusions Gary but the NHLPA wont break like last time.

After reading all the quotes it is so obvious why things aren't going forward NHL wants the moon and players to pay again for Gary and his BS.....Fehr and his team a fair deal.

3 lockout in a row and I will block nhl.com and all official sites for a long time.

Enough is enough

Sent from my BlackBerry

[Jedi]

The two sides in the NHL labour negotiations are hoping to make some progress next week by putting the four main players in the talks in a room together.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly will sit down with players' association executive director Donald Fehr and his brother Steve Fehr, the union's No. 2 man, in a small group session Tuesday.

So, pretty much the exact same thing that happened yesterday. Because that was so productive...

I suppose that if a deal is going to get hammered out, it will likely begin with small group meetings like this. I'm not optimistic, but at least the sides are still scheduling meetings with each other. I just wish they wouldn't wait 5 days between meetings like they have been recently...

[Nightfall]

They are meeting today, but if one side is refusing to budge on any issues, then they certainly are not negotiating.

I wish I knew what was being discussed in those meetings and which side was not being flexible. I don't even want to speculate at this point, having only heard the two initial proposals. One proposal from the owners was "Go f*** yourself" and the players proposal was "Lets rollback the salaries a little bit, but in two years, show me the money!" A deal CAN get done here, but both sides have to see the problem first. So far, neither side wants to even acknowledge the real problem.