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2012 Lockout Watch

cba lockout

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#601 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:24 PM

Is there a good reason why Uncle Gary craves short-term CBA's?
We've already seen he doesn't like (i.e., hates) the concept of an "option" season in a new CBA. Is it because the players suggested it?

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#602 evilzyme

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:16 PM

Is there a good reason why Uncle Gary craves short-term CBA's?
We've already seen he doesn't like (i.e., hates) the concept of an "option" season in a new CBA. Is it because the players suggested it?


It probably lies with because he is the spokesperson of the owners. If the season were to start on time, regardless of things, the owners would technically be under 43% RS, with the players still getting the majority. I'm not sure if they can backdate the CBA to where regardless they can start the season under the terms of the old CBA but once the new one comes out they magically backdate everything from the original start of the season. I'm not even sure if i'm making sense. The owners don't want to budge at all with their proposal, it just seems like they're the ones unwilling to allow the season to start on time if the new CBA isn't hashed out before Sept. 15th.

Short version, I think the owners don't want to allow the players to get their 57% of RS for any period of time this upcoming season, therefore they won't allow the beginning of the season to be played on the terms of the old CBA.

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#603 55fan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:43 PM

It probably lies with because he is the spokesperson of the owners. If the season were to start on time, regardless of things, the owners would technically be under 43% RS, with the players still getting the majority. I'm not sure if they can backdate the CBA to where regardless they can start the season under the terms of the old CBA but once the new one comes out they magically backdate everything from the original start of the season. I'm not even sure if i'm making sense. The owners don't want to budge at all with their proposal, it just seems like they're the ones unwilling to allow the season to start on time if the new CBA isn't hashed out before Sept. 15th.

Short version, I think the owners don't want to allow the players to get their 57% of RS for any period of time this upcoming season, therefore they won't allow the beginning of the season to be played on the terms of the old CBA.

I feel you may be right, but it boggles the mind that adults can sit around a table and say, "I don't want someone else to have more than me, so I'm going to make sure that we both get zero."

A cranky four-year-old who needs a nap, maybe, but a group of adults? Oh, heavens. It's going to be a long year.

#604 Ally

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

Is there a good reason why Uncle Gary craves short-term CBA's?
We've already seen he doesn't like (i.e., hates) the concept of an "option" season in a new CBA. Is it because the players suggested it?


Short term CBA's work for the owners, means that they get to renegotiate(take more money from the players) more often! Gary probably likes them because he can use them as a time to push more money towards his favorite failure teams. Who knows, but this sucks.

 
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#605 Dabura

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:20 PM

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Don't Toews me, bro!


#606 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

Any updates?

#607 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:55 PM

@aaronward_nhl: At this point,PA has 200 players confirmed,expects many more to decide to attend NYC meeting.Anticipation NHL/NHLPA to meet Sunday. #TSN

LGWsig_zpsa75c5d1e.jpg

 


#608 Barrie

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

I've been a Redwings fan since the early '80's..........flown to Chicago, LA, Denver, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, St. Louis and of course, Detroit to watch em play. If there is no hockey this season, I'm done with the sport for good. They can all kiss my ass.


I agree. A possible 4th lock out under Bettman? I've had enough. I can get my sports fix with MLB and the NFL, and enjoy the Wings memories I have since 1995.

Funny the owners think 57% is to much, and majority of fans think the players are over paid. I've heard that most businesses, 75% of the money they make goes towards paying their workers. I found that interesting.

Edit: Hey did anyone else hear the NHL said they lost something like $250 Million the last few years? BS if you ask me! Why is the cap going up every year?

Edited by Barrie, 08 September 2012 - 06:47 PM.

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#609 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:00 PM

“We recovered last time because we have the world’s greatest fans.”


"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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#610 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:04 PM

Something tells me many of the world's greatest fans won't be back if something is not done by 9/15.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
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#611 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:09 PM

Ron MacLean seems pretty confident there won't be a lockout.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#612 evilmrt

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:13 PM

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#613 Nightfall

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:22 PM

Ron MacLean seems pretty confident there won't be a lockout.

I wish I was just as confident. Neither side is willing to budge. I think we won't see hockey until November.
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#614 stevieisthebest

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:04 PM

Sorry if this has been posted already, I dont want to sift through 30 pages of stuff, but this video got me real emotional.

Edited by stevieisthebest, 08 September 2012 - 11:04 PM.

"15,395 Days since they won the cup...3 seconds left, THE DETROiT RED WINGS ARE THE STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!!!"

"Lemiuex was hammered by Darren McCarty, and he is being helped into the locker room."


Thanks Steve! #19
Thanks Nick! #5

#615 Nev

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:36 AM

I wish I was just as confident. Neither side is willing to budge. I think we won't see hockey until November.


Why should the players budge? Bettmans proposal is take, take, take, take, take, take, take and take. Not a single proposal to sweeten the pot, no "we want to take this, but we'll give you that in return" to make them go "OK". Bettmans proposal isn't a negotiation, its an ultimatum. He's treating the NHLPA like a vanquished foe trying to get the least punitive terms out of an unconditional surrender, rather than an equal partner in negotiations for the mutual good.

I was on the owners side last time around, and as I've mentioned previously he did some good things for the players such as significantly raising the minimum salary (important when ~ 40% of the NHLPA are on mimimum salary), but this is just pure greed and stupidity. Bettman needs to go as point 1 of any new CBA.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#616 F.Michael

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:42 AM

Why should the players budge? Bettmans proposal is take, take, take, take, take, take, take and take. Not a single proposal to sweeten the pot, no "we want to take this, but we'll give you that in return" to make them go "OK". Bettmans proposal isn't a negotiation, its an ultimatum. He's treating the NHLPA like a vanquished foe trying to get the least punitive terms out of an unconditional surrender, rather than an equal partner in negotiations for the mutual good.

I was on the owners side last time around, and as I've mentioned previously he did some good things for the players such as significantly raising the minimum salary (important when ~ 40% of the NHLPA are on mimimum salary), but this is just pure greed and stupidity. Bettman needs to go as point 1 of any new CBA.

Agreed.

I too was on the owners side the last time we went thru this, but this time it's different...Bettman's gotten more vile as the years go by.

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#617 Nightfall

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:23 AM

Why should the players budge? Bettmans proposal is take, take, take, take, take, take, take and take. Not a single proposal to sweeten the pot, no "we want to take this, but we'll give you that in return" to make them go "OK". Bettmans proposal isn't a negotiation, its an ultimatum. He's treating the NHLPA like a vanquished foe trying to get the least punitive terms out of an unconditional surrender, rather than an equal partner in negotiations for the mutual good.

I was on the owners side last time around, and as I've mentioned previously he did some good things for the players such as significantly raising the minimum salary (important when ~ 40% of the NHLPA are on mimimum salary), but this is just pure greed and stupidity. Bettman needs to go as point 1 of any new CBA.

So, in your opinion, the players need not make any concessions because there are no issues with the league finances right now?

Lets face facts here, the NHL is in trouble. What the owners are proposing won't fix the problem and the NHLPA doesn't want to see the salary floor go down.

So far, the NHLPA just wants to keep everything they have right now and the owners don't want to address the problems that they have with their ownership group and clubs that are not financially secure. Its a dangerous mix, and one where both sides really need to address.

The greed on both sides is going to drive the league to initiate a lockout. Sure, the uninformed and the ignorant people will say the league is at fault for locking out the players. The ones who have looked at the issues that are dogging the league as a whole right now will be able to see greed and stupidity as the biggest problems right now.

Edited by Nightfall, 09 September 2012 - 09:29 AM.

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#618 Nightfall

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:32 AM

http://www.defending...the-ones-to-pay

I have to agree with this article.
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#619 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

So, in your opinion, the players need not make any concessions because there are no issues with the league finances right now?


That was not the point of the original post. Owners do not appear to be willing to make any concessions. The league of a whole is profitable but profits go to a small number of teams. So when when owners want to fix non profitable teams strictly at players expense (rather than revenue sharing) I understand why NHLPA would be unwilling to budge.

One interesting issue with the lockout. Profitable teams actually stand to lose money when there are no games (unlike Phoenix for example, or the last time around when everybody cried poor). So I wonder if there would be some push from "rich" teams to have season start on schedule.


This is an old article from The Globe And Mail, but I think it covers issues quite well.

http://www.theglobea...article4429817/

The frustration on the players’ side is that in many instances this is more a revenue problem than a player salary problem – and they have little say in how to correct the vast revenue imbalance in the league.

Relocation is one option – going from Atlanta to Winnipeg alone had to have boosted league revenues $30-million or more – but there really aren’t many places to go beyond perhaps franchises in Toronto, Quebec City and Seattle.

Another is to drop the salary floor and allow teams to simply spend what they can afford, giving up on forced parity when it means forced losses for those on the low end.

More robust revenue sharing could also certainly help – and I expect that’s what union leader Donald Fehr eventually pushes for – but how willing are the Leafs, Habs, Rangers et al to bail out the league’s perennial problem children?

“Not very” has always been the word, and that’s why they currently share only a tiny fraction (rumoured to be roughly 7 per cent) of their share of revenues.

But pushing the players to fix this can only take them so far here. For the rest of the solution, this is a league that needs to look in the mirror at what’s really happening and why some of its teams are losing this much money.

Or give up the ruse that that’s what they’re fighting to correct in the first place.

“I know other leagues have meaningful revenue sharing,” one agent said this week of the NHL’s revenue gap dilemma. “The NHL hopes that the media and fans ignore that fact. Owners would rather try to pound on players than pound on each other.”


Edited by Pskov Wings Fan, 09 September 2012 - 12:00 PM.


#620 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 01:07 PM

One avenue explored by the NHLPA hit a dead end; from Toronto Star:

Dalton McGuinty’s government has rejected a plea from the National Hockey League Players’ Association to help prevent a potential lockout this fall.


At an Aug. 22 meeting with the Ministry of Labour and the NHL in Toronto, the players union asked the province to form a so-called conciliation board, a group of government employees who could help mediate the differences between the union and the league.


...


"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.






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