905 replies to this topic

[stevkrause]

"Cordial labour talks" might mean there's booze with lunch.

Cordial just means Burke wasn't allowed in... ie. There's booze with lunch

[cusimano_brothers]

He might be one of the reasons that the "gag order" is in place.

[Barrie]

The players should make a counter offer and say they want a Luxury Tax

[ogreslayer]

Essay from a player's perspective: http://www.cbc.ca/sp...-agreement.html

Interesting read

[Wings_Toledo]

Cordial just means Burke wasn't allowed in... ie. There's booze with lunch

With the way the owners are acting, I think you mean there's lunch with the booze.

[haroldsnepsts]

Essay from a player's perspective: http://www.cbc.ca/sp...-agreement.html

Interesting read

It is a pretty interesting read. I wonder who the player is?

To me the best point he makes is:

“Take more money from players” isn’t a viable solution for a successful business model. The owners don’t want to fix what are the real issues at hand.

His proposed soft-cap/luxury tax system I think is an interesting one as well, though I agree that it'll likely never happen.

And touches on another big point that doesn't get talked about a lot, but is starting to with the new CBA negotiations. Hockey Related Revenue. Not only do owners want to reduce the percentage of HRR that the players get, they want to change what constitutes HRR. And it's safe to say they're not going to end up with a larger number when they change the definition.

I'd be curious to know what currently does and does not constitute HRR.

[ogreslayer]

It is a pretty interesting read. I wonder who the player is?

To me the best point he makes is:



His proposed soft-cap/luxury tax system I think is an interesting one as well, though I agree that it'll likely never happen.

And touches on another big point that doesn't get talked about a lot, but is starting to with the new CBA negotiations. Hockey Related Revenue. Not only do owners want to reduce the percentage of HRR that the players get, they want to change what constitutes HRR. And it's safe to say they're not going to end up with a larger number when they change the definition.

I'd be curious to know what currently does and does not constitute HRR.

To summarize what is defined as HRR in the CBA:

1) Regular season & playoff gate receipts
2) Pre-season games
3) Special games with the exception of All-Star games
4) National, International, & National Digital broadcast revenues
5) Revenues from the NHL network
6) Local cable, over-the-air, satellite, & radio broadcasts
7) Club internet
8) Publications
9) In-arena & non-arena novelty sales
10) Concessions
11) Luxury boxes/suites & club/premium seats
12) Fixed signage & arena sponsorships
13) Temporary signage & club sponsorships
14) Dasherboard advertising
15) Parking
16) Other revenues i.e. league sponsored events, sale of game used equipment, sale of special memberships, etc.

And based on the legalese in the CBA, you have to assume owners are already playing fast & loose with what is & is not HRR within those categories and that they're going to try to get some of them removed in the next CBA. Not only do they want to reduce the player's share, they want to reduce the size of the pool they play in too.

[haroldsnepsts]

To summarize what is defined as HRR in the CBA:

1) Regular season & playoff gate receipts
2) Pre-season games
3) Special games with the exception of All-Star games
4) National, International, & National Digital broadcast revenues
5) Revenues from the NHL network
6) Local cable, over-the-air, satellite, & radio broadcasts
7) Club internet
8) Publications
9) In-arena & non-arena novelty sales
10) Concessions
11) Luxury boxes/suites & club/premium seats
12) Fixed signage & arena sponsorships
13) Temporary signage & club sponsorships
14) Dasherboard advertising
15) Parking
16) Other revenues i.e. league sponsored events, sale of game used equipment, sale of special memberships, etc.

And based on the legalese in the CBA, you have to assume owners are already playing fast & loose with what is & is not HRR within those categories and that they're going to try to get some of them removed in the next CBA. Not only do they want to reduce the player's share, they want to reduce the size of the pool they play in too.

Cool thanks for doing that homework.

Though the player in that article is stating that concessions and parking are already not a part of HRR. That's not to say he's correct, but it's what he claims.

[cusimano_brothers]

A counter-proposal is almost ready for tabling.

[haroldsnepsts]

A counter-proposal is almost ready for tabling.

Based on what the owners led with I wouldn't be surprised if the players asked for salaries be 75% of revenue, 40 game seasons, and gold plated hockey pucks.

[cusimano_brothers]

Uncle Gary cannot be very happy right now.

[haroldsnepsts]

Uncle Gary cannot be very happy right now.

The deals that have been made so far this off season certainly make it more difficult for the owners to cry about needing to reduce players salaries.

[cusimano_brothers]

From TSN:

Donald Fehr and the NHL players have a little more to mull over.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the league tabled the remaining elements of its opening contract offer to the NHL Players' Association on Wednesday. It was an expansion on the opening proposal the league delivered July 13, which included a decreased share of hockey-related revenue, term limits on contracts and a 22 per cent salary rollback.
"We left some open issues that we have to get back to but the overwhelming scope of our proposals are on the table," Bettman said. "We walked the players and the Players' Association through those so-called 'nuts and bolts' proposals and the process continues."

For a lawyer, Uncle gary sure can turn a phrase.

Edited by cusimano_brothers, 25 July 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[blgillett]

In my option if we have another long lock out it could very well mean the end of the NHL as we know it. Yes the devoted fans will always come back but to get the on the edge fans this could be the death sentence

[haroldsnepsts]

In my option if we have another long lock out it could very well mean the end of the NHL as we know it. Yes the devoted fans will always come back but to get the on the edge fans this could be the death sentence

If there's another lockout, then I'm definitely in the "Fire Bettman" camp. It takes two sides to negotiate, but Bettman is ultimately the steward of the league. And three lockouts under his reign is just too much damage to the sport. Especially if this third one results in any lost games, because while the CBA could use some tweaking, the league is hardly in a dire situation.

[MacK_Attack]

I don't think there's going to be a lockout, or at least one that puts a huge dent in the season.

There's no massive divide this time around, no issues that are causing rifts between the two sides. If you recall last time around, the only thing they would say about meetings was "no progress" and that would be it. We're not hearing that this time around.

It just has a different feel this time. Instead of having a whole new system to create, it's a case of tweaking what is already in place.

I suspect it will come right down to the Sept. 15th deadline, but I think it will get done.

If there's another lockout, then I'm definitely in the "Fire Bettman" camp.  It takes two sides to negotiate, but Bettman is ultimately the steward of the league.  And three lockouts under his reign is just too much damage to the sport.  Especially if this third one results in any lost games, because while the CBA could use some tweaking, the league is hardly in a dire situation.

It is worth mentioning that Gary Bettman has never negotiated a CBA without a work stoppage.

Edited by MacK_Attack, 27 July 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[cusimano_brothers]

"We're doing our best to comply with all of their requests regardless of whether we think they are relevant."

“The union has for quite some time had some substantial financial information. They have given us recently some additional financial-information and other-information requests,

most of which we don’t understand the relevance to

, but we have been producing, and I believe (Monday) night we gave them the first installment, which was 76,000 pages of information pursuant to their request.”

Uncle Gary, wearing his best pair of flip-flops. Any attempt to sincerely negotiate a collective agreement is totally foreign to him. He has a lot of work to do.

[Barrie]

I can honestly say, I really don't care if there's another work stoppage. Bettman's got me so pissed off, whatever gets him fired, if it means missing another complete season, I'm fine with it.

Uncle Gary, wearing his best pair of flip-flops. Any attempt to sincerely negotiate a collective agreement is totally foreign to him. He has a lot of work to do.

Agreed, this guy has way to much control, it's time to get someone in there who doesn't lie to us 95% of the time. The guy's a complete dictator, and he does business in North America, how is that ok?!

[kipwinger]

I decided to put this here because I didn't want to start another thread. Anybody else see that Dan Cleary was representing the Red Wings at the labor talks? I know that Abby and Kronwall are the union reps but according to one article I read, the team decided to send Cleary because they wanted a veteran to represent them (rather than Abby) and it didn't say why Kronwall didn't go. Anyway, if Cleary is well respected enough around the locker room and organization, anybody else think he might be the one getting Zetterberg's soon to be vacated "A"?

[MabusIncarnate]

I decided to put this here because I didn't want to start another thread. Anybody else see that Dan Cleary was representing the Red Wings at the labor talks? I know that Abby and Kronwall are the union reps but according to one article I read, the team decided to send Cleary because they wanted a veteran to represent them (rather than Abby) and it didn't say why Kronwall didn't go. Anyway, if Cleary is well respected enough around the locker room and organization, anybody else think he might be the one getting Zetterberg's soon to be vacated "A"?

If thats the case i'd say absolutely. I wasn't aware that Cleary was wearing the pants in the Wings labor talks either.